Podcast Ep. 139: Holiday Party and Job Interview Etiquette: The Complete Playbook

Anthony Cawdron: 

This is Anthony Cawdron and you are listening to This Is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you’re listening to This Is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps, and inspiring others to do the same. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Your resume says a lot about you, but it’s only two-dimensional. The way people present themselves. If you look like you’re looking after your own clothes and your shoes are shined, it’s likely to tell me that you’re going to look after someone else’s assets just as well. I do start out by saying a lot of this is common sense. The problem is that sense isn’t that common any more. And it’s not rocket science, it does help rocket scientists get better jobs. 

Kate Young: 

Are you looking to brush up on a few conversation starters, etiquette tips, and holiday hosting how-tos before Thanksgiving and the rest of the holidays hit this year? Well, look no further because this episode of This Is Purdue has got you covered. This incredible conversation first aired last November, and since it’s one of our most popular episodes, we wanted to share it with you all again as the holiday season approaches. Get ready to entertain and impress your guests or crush that big interview after listening to this one. 

In this episode of This Is Purdue, we’re talking to Anthony Cawdron, Westwood event coordinator and estate manager. Westwood is the official home to Purdue’s presidents since the 1970s, and currently President Mung Chiang and his family reside in this historic home. Now, if you’ve ever had the chance to go to Westwood for an event or a dinner as either a student, alumni, or staff or faculty member, you likely know Anthony. But just in case, here’s a quick bit of background on him before we dive into this episode. 

Anthony has been at Purdue for 25 years now, but he’s originally from the UK. He’s lived all over the world and has even worked in a few European castles. He also teaches a business etiquette course here at Purdue. So from job interviews, to networking events, to holiday parties, Anthony is sharing his best etiquette tips with us. What’s a great way to spur small talk? What should you order for an interview over lunch? And what’s a polite way to leave a party? And it is not the Irish exit. Plus, during this special interview last year, Anthony made us homemade English goodies and tea, which is very fitting for his background. There’s really no better place for Anthony to tell us about his Boilermaker journey than within the walls of Westwood. Okay, so let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Anthony. 

Anthony, thank you so much for joining us today on This Is Purdue. We’re thrilled to talk to you. We have some lovely snacks and tea that are set up. Tell us a little bit about this, before we dig into Westwood and your journey, okay? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. So we have the classic English cucumber sandwiches. So the cucumbers on thin-sliced bread with no crusts. Then we have some profiteroles with some gold dust, of course. And then some macarons with poppy seeds and key lime. And then we have some homemade scones. And there’s a big- 

Kate Young: 

And you made them, right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I made them, yes. I made them this morning. But there’s a big debate on how you pronounce it. Some people say scones, some people say scones. I’m a scones side. And then when we eat them, there’s a big debate as to which you put on first, is the jam or the cream. And I’m jam first, then cream. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

That’s just the way I do it, but a lot of people are wrong. 

Kate Young: 

Well, thank you so much for having us here and for making- 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’re welcome. Thank you for coming. Yes, absolutely. 

Kate Young: 

… this lovely arrangement. We’re at Westwood. This is the home to Purdue’s presidents. You’ve been here as the estate manager and event coordinator for over 20 years. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, 24 last week. Or last month. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, my goodness. Congratulations. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

So you’re actually from the UK though, I’m sure our listeners can tell by- 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Sometimes. Everyone in England thinks I have an American accent. 

Kate Young: 

Oh. Well, we’re excited to get into your journey, like I said. This property is so beautiful. I’m sure no day is the same for you. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No, which is actually one of the good things. At 24 years, if the days were all the same, you wouldn’t be able to do it. So I think that having variety, and different events, and different things going on, and different people coming in and out, and projects that don’t involve guests as well, all of that. I’ve been keeping the outside looking good, and redoing the driveways, and all those type of things. 

Kate Young: 

Yes. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, yes. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. Tell us about your journey to West Lafayette, since we do know you’re from the UK. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

How did your experiences overseas set you up for success here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. So my father was in the Air Force, so I was a military brat, if you’d like it that way. So we moved a lot when I was growing up. We lived in Hong Kong and Singapore, then returned to England where I finished my high school. And then did catering college for two years, and then went to work in Switzerland for a year. And then came back and finished my degree at Oxford Brooks University. Then got into, almost by accident, working at Blenheim Palace. That then turned into Sutton Place, being the butler there at 21, which was a little daunting. My first guest was Prince Phillip, so it was a little overwhelming at times, but did that. And then went back in the restaurant industry. 

Then had a call from somebody who said, “Would you like to teach?” So I moved to Switzerland again and taught in a hotel school there. And then had an opportunity to do a work abroad project with Iowa State, ostensibly for a year. So I left Switzerland intending to come back and I haven’t gone back yet. So that was 34 years ago. So I think that overall, travel and just being involved in international hotels and restaurants and seeing things from that perspective is really what started me interested in the events business and catering and that type of thing. 

Kate Young: 

Anthony explains how his experiences working within the Blenheim Palace and Sutton Place in England ignited his passion for event planning and etiquette. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I think it gave me an opportunity to see exactly how things should be done and just the attention to detail, and how to look after people, and working with people from higher ranks if you like, and royalty, and all of those type of things. So I think it set me up quite well as being able to handle guests of every caliber and every background. 

Kate Young: 

As Anthony previously mentioned, he left Switzerland for a work abroad project in the US at Iowa States in Ames, Iowa. It was there that he met former Purdue President Martin Jischke and his wife Patty. Anthony discusses how being at Iowa State and meeting this couple changed the trajectory of his career. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So I was there, as I said, for a year. And then during that year, I think for the first time, people really tried to nurture me and continue my education. So it was suggested I take my Master’s degree there at Iowa State, which I did. And then the Jischke’s arrived during that period, and certainly were well aware that they needed somebody to be more involved with the events side of things because the previous president had not done as much entertaining as they wanted. So they asked me to do a couple of things just to help out to start with, and then it developed into part-time, full-time, and then eight years working with them at Iowa State. Yes, it was a wonderful opportunity. 

Kate Young: 

So how did they ask you to come to Purdue? How did you finally end up here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

It was a big debate in Ames as to whether I would or whether I wouldn’t go. And it was actually the Des Moines Register put more interest in my leaving than them. So it was will he go, won’t he go, will he go, won’t he go? So I flew here with Patty and Martin on a couple of occasions to look around and see whether liked it. So it was a pleasant surprise, so I said, “Okay, I’ll come for six months and see how it is.” So I lived in the apartment above the garage for six months and got used to being here, and decided I liked it and said I’d say, and that was, as I said, 24 years ago. 

Kate Young: 

24 years ago. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, yes. 

Kate Young: 

So tell us about your role at Westwood. I know every day is different, but what are some of your duties and responsibilities here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So basically, keeping the house looking as good as it can. I have a team of wonderful housekeepers, Sheila and Tammy, and they do a fantastic job of making sure that the house is already because you never know when the President’s Office may call and say somebody’s coming over and you can’t be just suddenly rushing around. So keeping the house ready. Then obviously, with the events, working with the President’s Office in making sure that we’re up-to-date on what’s happening, whose coming, making name tags, making place cards. And then obviously, working with chef probably once a week to see what events we have coming up. There are weeks when we have fewer events, and then there are weeks where we have lots of different things. 

Kate Young: 

Every night? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, yes. And also, during the day. I’d say that Mitch used to entertain more at breakfast time because there was no family and people getting to school, and things like that. So we did more entertaining in the mornings with him. I say the variety is what keeps it interesting, and obviously the seasons, and the things inside, outside the house as well. 

Kate Young: 

What is one of your earliest memories of Westwood? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I think the first time when, as I say, Patty and I traveled with Martin to come to see what West Lafayette was like, and I’m driving through the gates. Obviously, it’s a president’s house, like many big 10 schools in campus, and we had parking for about five cars in the driveway. And I drove in here and you’ve got almost a mile of drive. So just the setting was very, very different from what we were used to. And just a sense of a big house, and then seeing the spaces that we had to work with was wonderful because, again, the Iowa statehouse was Victorian, so it wasn’t necessarily designed or easy to use as Westwood is. Westwood is very versatile, as we’ve hosted events for eight people or 250 people, so it’s a lot of things like that. 

Can I pour you some tea? 

Kate Young: 

Yes! Oh, my gosh, please do. And we have to try one of the homemade scones. Did I say it right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You did. So this teapot is actually from the Shaw china that was given to the house back in the 1990s, and we have some pieces. Unfortunately, it’s aging so it does need some care and it’s not always leaking, but this one is not. We’re doing so far. 

Kate Young: 

It’s beautiful. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. 

Kate Young: 

Now, do you enjoy milk with your tea? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I do take milk in my tea. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. I do, too. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I’m not doing it the right way because if you put milk in first, then that’s very … 

Kate Young: 

Good to know. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And that’s where the phrase miffed comes from. MIF, milk in first, and people who put milk in first are second class. 

Kate Young: 

We’re learning all types of things on this podcast today. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

All right. We’ll give you a sandwich. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you so much. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’re very welcome. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, so fast-forward. President Jischke leaves in 2007. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

What made you want to stay here at Purdue? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

We know that Dr. Jischke was going to retire in 2007, so that was all expected. And then when Dr. Cordova and Chris Foster came here on a sightseeing trip, visit, I was obviously here and was cooking breakfast for them. And then they said, “Will you stay?” And I said, again, “Yes, we’ll give it a try.” So it’s become a hand me down thing. I think you get the house, you get him, too. 

Kate Young: 

I think they’re thrilled to have you though with the house. So what has it been like for you to experience the Midwest? Back when you lived in the UK, did you ever picture yourself where you are now? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No, I really didn’t. When I was in Switzerland, some of my students there said, “You’ll absolutely hate it. You won’t fit in, it’ll be awful and you won’t like it, and you’ll be back. You won’t even stay the year.” So I was somewhat, not worried, but trepidation I’d say. Because I called the bank in London and said, “Can I set up an account?” And they went, “Ooh, not sure. Where are you going to live?” And I said, “Iowa.” They said, “Ooh.” They said, “We think there’s a bank in Des Moines.” I said, “Well, you have to drive 20 miles to a bank, that’s not the worst thing in the world.” And then you arrive in Ames and there are multi-story hotels, a huge stadium, and massive, massive buildings. You think, “We’ll be okay.” 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

What are a few of your most significant memories from your 24 years here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Gosh. I think entertaining. We’ve had three Secretaries of State come to dinner. Madeline Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleezza Rice, they’ve been wonderful. The Secretary of the Navy. So I think it’s guests. Laura Bush when the convocation happened for her and the two girls, so that was interesting. Especially the time constraints placed on us for that event were amazing because they wanted a three-course meal in 37 minutes. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, my goodness. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So it was very, very tight timing, but we pulled it off and everyone went away happy. So it’s the guests and the different personalities of people. 

The nice thing about Westwood is that it is, as many people call it, the front door to the university. So we have students, hosting the Reamer Club come on an annual tour, the freshman Reamers. So they come on a tour of the house so that they know when they drive the train around, what is behind those doors if people ask. And then we have faculty, so we have faculty events. We have deans tonight. We have a faculty event most months. So it’s a nice use of the house for people who are on-campus. And then obviously, alums coming back. We entertain many, many, people so I think that variety is great. 

Kate Young: 

We’ve discussed, you’ve lived through several presidents here. Do you have any fun behind-the-scenes stories, anything that would surprise our listeners maybe? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’ll have to wait for the book. No. No, I don’t. I think things just happen and in 24 years, it drifts away. I supposed the cats coming in by mistake is interesting. Suddenly, somebody comes to me and says, “Here’s a cat.” Because they live outside and keep our mouse population down. 

Kate Young: 

Oh. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

But occasionally they manage to sneak in. When the Jischke’s were here, we had a dog, so that was also a challenge at times. 

Kate Young: 

Was he or she in the way? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

She. No, she was never in the way, but she would sometimes escape from the kitchen and be in places that she wasn’t supposed to be. And also, liked to get out, and go and find the dirtiest, muddiest places to roll as dogs do. I’m trying to think of anything else? 

Obviously, the gates have been an issue when power goes out. I’d get phone calls from the president saying, “I’m stuck outside the gate,” so I would have to drive over and climb the gate in the rain, and release the hydraulics on the gate, and open the gate so that they could come in. One time we had a power outage and the president at the time was trying to pack for a trip. So we had to get the Purdue Fire Department to bring one of the fire engines, or the fire truck, sorry. I’m not in England anymore. A fire truck up here and plug it in, they ran their generator so that we could have a light in the packing area so that they could pack their suitcases. 

Kate Young: 

Wow. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Other than that, I don’t think we’ve … We’ve managed to keep it pretty sane. 

Kate Young: 

How have you seen this iconic home change over the years? We were chatting before this and there’s been all types of renovations. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. So the house has morphed from a two-bedroom cottage when it was built in 1934 into the 17,000-square-feet that it is now. When we came in 2000, the house footprint was pretty much as it is. So we’ve made some tweaks, we’ve changed some things. We added a different porch last summer. So we’ve made alterations. The house I think is pretty much at its maximum footprint now. There’s really not much more room for anything, but it works well and what was put in, especially with the big addition that the Beering’s did, has made the house incredibly functional. We have the catering kitchen and the big dining room that we can seat 104 in if we have to. It’s tight, but we can get. So it is a very workable house. I think that’s really the biggest change. People, when they drive up, they don’t realize just how much house there is at the back really. 

Kate Young: 

It’s so stately and beautiful. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

But yes, you don’t really see … When you haven’t been inside before, you haven’t seen the depth of the house. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

The day that our podcast team had the pleasure of visiting Anthony at Westwood, he and his team were setting up for a Purdue deans dinner that evening. I asked Anthony what a typical day of managing Westwood looks like when planning for an event like this. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

We usually have a fair amount of notice about when these events are happening, so obviously we know what the room’s going to look like. Depending on the table, we’ll seat the table in other occasion, but the table is fairly versatile in that we can seat up to 22 at one table, and the president seems to like that feel of everyone being at one table. 

Kate Young: 

More intimate? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Because once you separate people, if the First Lady is there, she can host one table and he can host another, but it still separates the guests. So we’ve done a lot more events with the big, long table. And I will already have talked to chef and we’ve planned the menu, and we do try and feature as much Indiana food as possible just because people like it and we’re using the student farm’s produce at the moment as well. 

So we’ve already planned the menu, so then prior to that I will give our two housekeepers, as I said, Tammy and Sheila, a list of what china we’re using. We have five different sets of china, so depending on the time of day and maybe the type of guest that are coming, we make a choice of which china pattern we’re going to use. So they’ll get that ready for me. Then I’ll put up the tables, put out the chairs, and then start laying tables. And typically, if we have a big event, then I’ll have set the tables up the day before. 

And if we’ve got flowers to be done, I’ll try and get those done and put in the cooler ahead of time. Another nice thing about Westwood is it does have a lot of garden space, so in the spring when we’re planting the gardens, we try and have things that can be cut flowers. Patty Jischke was instrumental in starting the cut flower idea so that we can harvest a lot from the gardens as long as we can. 

So getting the flowers ready, and then having everything on the tables. And then our staff arrive usually about an hour prior to the event. By that time, we’ve probably got name tags out, I’ve done place cards. So there’s that arrangement, that finalizing and getting the final bits out. So the glasses ready for the arrival drinks. And then always being ready for changes. 

Kate Young: 

Yes, pivoting. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, yes. That is the key to this game. 

Kate Young: 

So speaking of that, a lot of our listeners and viewer probably don’t know all of the behind-the-scenes details that go into event planning. It’s a lot more than one might think. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

What are some things that you’ve learned over the years when it comes to event planning and facing some challenges or having to make those pivots? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You definitely get to have a plan B, a plan C, and hopefully never have to use it, but a plan D just in case. So there’s always that backup and being ready for those changes. Even if you don’t want them to happen, just that you know that these things are going to take place. So I think that’s always the key is trying to predict the unlikeliness of things. And that does sometimes get to be a challenge when we’re doing the one long table because it fits 22, not 23. So if a 23rd guest comes, we have a real problem. We have had issues where the room has been full, so we’ve had to suddenly grab a small table from another area in the house and just throw some food and some silverware at it and say, “There we go.” 

But I think anticipating what might happen. So we’ve always got extra food, we’ve got an extra place setting sitting somewhere so that it’s as fast as we can to get it in. People’s diets. Halfway through a meal, they become vegetarian. So you, “Oh, all right, we’re going with that. Well, that’s all right. Yes, that’ll be fine.” So just adapting. 

And when I teach my classes, I always say two of the key elements to being good is adaptability and flexibility. You’ve got to read the situation, work out what’s going to make it happen, and then be ready for something not happening right. 

Kate Young: 

Beyond working at Westwood, Anthony also teaches a business etiquette course at Purdue in the White Lodging-J.W. Marriott, Jr. School of Hospitality and Tourism Management within the College of Health and Human Sciences. I asked him more about this course and what role he believes etiquette plays in modern society. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So I got into it when I was at Iowa State. A fraternity approached me and asked me if I would go in and do a presentation for a fraternity and I thought it’s a one-off. And I would say over 34 years of doing these, how many thousand times I’ve actually given the presentation. So it’s still popular, I still travel. I was in New Orleans in August giving it to a fraternity conference there. I’m speaking next week and the week after to various agronomy classes, so that’s also good. But I think it’s something that people realize they should need. Many people may have been told by an aunt or a grandmother at some point, “Do this, do this,” and they go, “Yeah, whatever.” And then they suddenly realize that perhaps that was useful and that they might find it helpful. 

My classes are usually full, which is great. So we have about 60, 65 students every semester. This is an eight-week class. I do start out by saying a lot of this is common sense. The problem is that sense isn’t that common anymore. And it’s not rocket science, but it does help rocket scientists get better jobs. I think it really, what we’re trying to do is make the students as comfortable as they could be in an environment that they’re not necessarily used to. And being with your peers all the time and eating in the dining court, eating quickly, not worrying about things, and then suddenly you’re placed in this situation where you do have silver, you do have plates, you do have glasses, and you’re being watched. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

That’s the deal. Your resume says a lot about you, but it’s only two-dimensional. When you walk in the door, and sit you down and I watch you eat, I think, “I don’t think this is going to work.” That’s why we do it. I’m pleased that professors do ask me to go to their classes and give a presentation. What they remember of it is entirely up to them. I’ve done it for the ROTC and that one is a challenge in and of itself because they meet at 6:00 in the mornings. Doing a presentation for people in uniform at 6:00 in the morning is interesting. 

Kate Young: 

Tell us some of these tips that you’re telling the students when it comes to networking. Interviews over a meal, that’s something I have always struggled with. I don’t necessarily want to be eating and worrying if I have something on my face or eating too slow, eating too fast, right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Right and that is the challenge. And that’s why they put them into that position, is they want to see can you deal with this? So one of the key things I say is when you go to a meal and if it’s somewhere that you’re not familiar with, ask people what they’d recommend. You can gain from that information whether or not these people have an appetizer course. Or if they don’t recommend any appetizers, I probably won’t be ordering an appetizer. Choosing foods that you can eat without using your hands. Choosing foods that you can eat easily while still maintaining a conversation. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So ordering something because you’re trying to show off or think, “Oh, yes, I’ll take advantage of this menu because somebody else is paying,” is generally going to backfire on you. So making wise choices at the table. Keeping pace with the rest of the table. And I do tell people if they’re hosting and the guest of honor is being bombarded with questions, it’s their job to step in and say, “Let’s all have our guest eat a little bit and somebody else talk about their research project or what they’re going to be doing this coming semester,” whatever it happens to be, so that there’s an opportunity for people to catch up. 

And the other thing is to be aware of other people’s needs. A lot of people are focused on their own little space. We do live in a selfie-ish world and it’s all about me, so they don’t think about other people. So passing things that are in front of them, seeing that somebody needs something. You’ve got a cup of coffee, the cream and sugar is next to me, “Would you like some cream and sugar? Could I pass this to you?” Or just keeping an eye on what’s going around. They may be the guest, but if they’re going to be hired by the company and they have taken and interest and said, “Can we get you some more water? Would you like another bread roll?” All of those types of things show me that you are looking outside your own comfort zone and you are willing to take care of other people. So if I do hire you, I won’t have any worries about sending you to a restaurant with our guests because I know that you can do it. 

Balancing conversation and eating. Taking time to actually take the food and then answer the question, don’t try and do both. We have a lot of weaponizing of silverware at the moment, making it look pleasant for other people. I tell students, “Put yourself in front of a camera and watch yourself eat. And if you don’t like it, this is why you’re sitting in front of a camera.” 

Kate Young: 

It’s humbling. Humbling. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So just little details like that because it can come down to the fact that you are a better ambassador of yourself at the table and that may be the key to me saying, “You get the job, you don’t.” 

Kate Young: 

I love that. It’s like if you’re attending to people’s needs, you’re going to be a team player, you’re going to care for your coworkers. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Similarly, the way people present themselves. If you look like you’re looking after your own clothes and your shoes are shined, it’s likely to tell me that you’re going to look after someone else’s assets just as well. Even though your suit may not be the newest, if it’s taken care of and it looks good, then it says to me you can take care of things. Again, little details like that. Shaking hands, making eye contact when you talk to people. Speaking clearly. Especially for introductions, people are so nervous. They speak so quickly and then you have to repeat it. And then say, “Really, slow down, slow down.” 

Kate Young: 

Slow down. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And if you have to, say it again. It’s fine. Or ask somebody their name again. We’re trying to make them as comfortable as possible and feel like their education is the starting point, but what they make out of their lives is something that they have to do. Have a wide range of topics to talk about because if all you can talk about is your school, it’s fine, but there’s a bigger world out there. 

I also tell people to do some research before you go. If your interview’s in Seattle, get the Seattle paper off the internet, read it, find out what’s going on. So that when you go there, you can talk to people who live in Seattle about things that are happening in Seattle. They feel that you have tried to integrate yourself already, rather than just assuming that everything is … I ask my students in class, “Can you name me the mayor of Lafayette?” No. “Can you name me the mayor of West Lafayette?” No. I say, “You’ve lived here for years, you have to be able to think of it. Because if you go to something here and you can do that, people are going to think you really are so distanced from reality.” 

Kate Young: 

Have you ever had students, I’m sure you have, come back to you and say- 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

“… I was in a really trick interview,” or, “Hey, I was at this networking event and I thought back to your class and what you told us?” 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I’d say that the thing I’ve had most people comment on after the fact is the ability to hold a glass, a plate, and a fork in one hand. So you’ve got your plate, your glass, and your fork, and so your right hand is still free to shake hands, and you’re able to deal with all of the food and drink in one hand. And you look sophisticated- 

Kate Young: 

Polished doing it? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… you look polished, and you can multitask and you didn’t need to write it on your resume. But I’ve had several students come back to me and say, “I was the only one who could do it.” Or, “I felt so comfortable because I knew what I was supposed to do, whereas everyone else was juggling things.” Yeah. That one’s probably the one that I get the most. 

So would you like one of these scones now? 

Kate Young: 

Yes. I’m so excited because I don’t think I’ve ever tried one with this cream. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

So tell us. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So English scones typically, and you always split them, you never cut them. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And usually, you have red jam, we call it jam, you call it jelly. We call it jam. So you take some jam and put it onto your plate. Come on. And then you have some cream. In England, you’ll probably find it’s clotted cream, which is hard to find here. Which is a heated cream, so it’s a little bit more weighty and fat content. Pass that over to you. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. Okay, so you’re not taking the knife and directly putting it on I’ve noticed. Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No. Now sometimes, when we do reception events here, chef makes wonderful scones, we will actually split them and spread them so that people don’t have to work with that. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Because again, when you’re designing food for large groups, you have to have things that are easy to eat, quick and easy to pick up. So then the key is to take a little bit of jam and put it on about a bite-sized piece of the scone. 

Kate Young: 

So not the whole thing? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

It’s so complicated being English. And then you put some cream on the top. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. And we did jam first, like you said. Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Some people will even put butter first, then jam, then cream. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a lot. The cream is insanely delicious. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Good. 

Kate Young: 

And so is the scone. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

With the scone. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, my goodness. Okay, see how I was taking both hands? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’ll see people do that as sometimes … That’s another thing I tell students. When I go around the class at the beginning of the semester, I ask them what their worst habit is. 75% of them say procrastination, which I can’t do anything about. 

Kate Young: 

It sounds like a college student. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And then the next one is fidgeting because they’re always playing with things. Probably from growing up, they were always playing with a phone or a game, or something. So sometimes that has now secured both of my hands and I’m not doing anything silly with them. Whereas if I have one hand free, people start to play with things, or they fiddle, or they play with their hair or their fingernails. 

Kate Young: 

With a job interview, it’s just such a turnoff. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, it’s distracting. So sometimes adding that extra hand just gives your hand something to do. But generally, you would only hold with one and stir in two. Stir quietly. 

Kate Young: 

In October, Anthony received the Special Boilermaker Award, which honors members of the Purdue faculty or staff who have contributed significantly to the improvement of the quality of life or the betterment of the educational experience for Purdue students. Anthony shares what this award means to him. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

It was a very, very special moment. It was quite a surprise being told I had it because I was at a meeting in Hovde, and we were leaving the meeting. And Teresa Cadwallader, who is Mung’s executive assistant, said, “Oh, could you just pop in here?” And I thought, “What is this?” So she opened the door and ta-da. So that was a big surprise. And then obviously, going down onto the field to receive it was a very special honor. It was a wonderful honor and obviously my co-recipients, we had a great time. So it was very, very special. 

I don’t know whether there’s a Bingo card of things that if you’re at Purdue this long, you get one of these. And if you get this long, you get one of these. So I was the Reamers, I was in Iron Key, MARTA Board, Hall Master, so my Bingo card’s getting full. But yes, it was a very nice honor, very nice. And I’ve had many, many messages. I’ve had 450 messages on Facebook after it was … Eric Barker, Dean Eric Barker took some really nice pictures, so they were on Facebook so a lot of people responded to that. And then I had people text me who were in the Buchanan Club saying, “Oh, yeah, three of us up here are also a Boilermaker Award recipients in the past and we’re here cheering for you. Thanks for joining our ranks,” if you like. So it was very, very, nice. 

Kate Young: 

I can tell Purdue means a lot to you. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, it does. 

Kate Young: 

Why have you stayed here this many years? Why? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I sometimes ask myself the same question, I don’t always give myself the same answer. It has worked out really well. As I say, I started out expecting to be in the US for a year and that turned into 34. I do love the variety of the US. Obviously, we’re here in the Midwest and we have our wonderful seasonal changes, which I really do enjoy. I think ti’s nice to still have winter. Having lived in Switzerland and being in the snow for three or four months a year, you miss things like that if you were in a warmer state. So I really do like the seasonal changes. Particularly, I enjoy gardening and things outside, so it’s nice to see and to be able to make changes and not that the landscape is going to be the same day in, day out as if you were in some other states to the west maybe. So it’s nice having that variety. 

The ability to travel relatively easily. I do miss public transport. I do miss European trains. But you get around here, but it is an easy place to move from and to go see different parts of the country and travel. So I think the Midwest … Many people who travel from here after they graduate go and live in metropolitan areas, but then eventually return to the Midwest because they say it’s just a better place to live and to bring up families, and things like that. The people are very warm. It’s a very accepting and very welcoming community, and I think that that’s why I ended up staying at Iowa State is that people probably said, “We’re interested in making you do something different and getting on with the Master’s degree.” 

So that also goes back to one of the things I tell students is that, yes, your degree may be in biomechanical engineering, or whatever it happens, biomedical engineering. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you are going to stay in that field. And if something comes along that says to you, “That sounds interesting, let me try that.” And say at 22, you have nothing to lose. If you don’t like it, great, you can try something else. And you can at that point probably still fit all your belongings into one vehicle, so if you need to travel, you can do it now. Because as life gets more complicated- 

Kate Young: 

You’re tied down more. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… it’s a lot harder to make those changes. And I think when I first took my first job at Blenheim Palace, I didn’t know that that would lead to this. It was a one-off three-week job for the Christmas holidays with the Duke and Duchess, and then, “Would you come back full-time?” Yes, why not? And then everything just transitioned. 

So you can never actually predict what’s going to happen next. So I think I’ve enjoyed the fact that, having worked for four presidents, each one comes with a different background, different sets of needs, different requirements, so that has … In a way, I haven’t really worked here for 24 years, I’ve worked here for 2.5, and I’ve worked here for 10, and I’ve worked here for five, and I’ve worked here for seven with each of the four different presidents. So that I think has kept things fresh. To have stayed in one place, one person, one job, routine might not have been the case. I’m not saying that people have tried to take me away from here. 

Kate Young: 

I can imagine. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Purdue may be known as the cradle of quarterbacks, but it’s also the cradle of presidents in that we’ve had three provosts go on to be wonderful presidents of big schools. Sally Mason, Randy Woodson, and Tim Sands have all made wonderful presidents in their own right and all three have asked me to go with them. 

Kate Young: 

There’s a behind-the-scenes story. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. 

Kate Young: 

What does this Boilermaker community and being part of it mean to you? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I do really like living in Lafayette, West Lafayette. I live downtown and when friends come to visit from England, particularly we’ll walk around downtown or go to a restaurant, people know you, they come up to you, they recognize you, they talk to you. I’ll sit on my porch and people will say hello or will stop and chat on the porch. So it has a very nice feel that you don’t always get in other countries because people are either too busy or they feel that they can’t talk to people because they don’t know them yet or they’re not familiar with them. So there’s a lot to the Midwest and warmth and welcoming feel. 

As you know and I know, when we travel to different states, it’s not always the same. It does feel … You feel like an outsider in some states. So the community itself is wonderful. I’ve made lots and lots of friends, either from guests coming here or from working relationships, and then alumni, and donors and people. Having traveled with Purdue as well, that’s another really good way of establishing a bond, a friendship with people that you may not normally have had a chance to meet. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. With the holiday season in full swing, we couldn’t let Anthony go without asking some burning questions when it comes to etiquette. So for our listeners who may be preparing for holiday events, whether you’re hosting or attending as a guest, Anthony shares his top advice, including avoiding the rather popular Irish exit strategy. Are you guilty of doing this a time or two? I know I am. Here’s Anthony. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

A little more tea? 

Kate Young: 

Yes, actually. It’s delicious. Thank you. So for people hosting events or maybe attending events, what is a small, thoughtful gift that you could give to the host of a dinner party, let’s say? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. The whole notion of giving gifts is changing. Gift giving, certainly in the corporate world, is now almost frowned upon because it’s a difficult gray area. One thing to remember is that the host has asked you there because you they want you there. They didn’t necessarily want you to bring anything. So there was I think, in the past, almost an obligation that people felt, that I have to take a gift, and that’s not the case. If you feel like taking something, that’s fine, the host would appreciate it, but don’t feel that you can’t go empty handed. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

The other thing to think about is particularly if the host is greeting you and you hand them this, then they’ve got to deal with it. So giving then something that they can easily say, “Oh, that’s lovely, thank you,” and put it down, and then it’s out of the way, they don’t have to … So when people bring flowers, it’s very pleasant, it’s very nice, but if they’re not already arranged or in some container, then, “Oh, I’ve got to deal with these now. Let me put them down. They should probably go in water. Oh.” If you’ve got someone, your event coordinator standing right there, yes, you can probably hand off a gift, but it makes it awkward for people. 

So particularly around the holidays, I think a small ornament or a handmade ornament, or there are lots of little arts and crafts shops here in town that sell small gestures, those are nice. Commemorative ornaments are nice. Homemade food if you’re somebody who’s very good at making chocolates or something like that, just a little gesture. If you are going to take flowers, as I say, take them already in a vase or in something that the host doesn’t have to then deal with them immediately, that they can just be placed. Also, people have probably done their own decorating, they’ve probably already got flowers on the table. They’ve probably already got most of that, so unless you know them very well and you’re just taking something that you know will fit in with the theme or the décor, it can be a little bit of a juxtaposition. 

A lot of people take bottles of wine. 

Kate Young: 

Yes, I’ve done that. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Which is fine. 

Kate Young: 

How do you feel about that? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

It’s fine. The expectation is that you take the bottle of wine and it’s really a gift, don’t expect to drink it. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

If you have a particular wine. So if you’re planning a dinner party and you were cooking and I said, “Let me bring the wine,” I would ask you what you’re making and then I would bring a wine that was appropriate. And we would both know ahead of time I would bring the wine in a way that it was ready to be served by you, but you already knew about it. So if I bring a bottle of wine and I expect you to serve it and it doesn’t go with the food that you planned or you’ve already planned your wines, again, that can be a little awkward. So if you bring it just as a gift, perfectly fine, but don’t, as I say, expect to drink it. And I’ve seen some people, awkwardly, if it hasn’t been served, take it away with them at the end. 

Kate Young: 

What? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. “Well, they didn’t drink it, so I’ll take it back.” Oh, all right. Okay. 

Kate Young: 

I think it’s awkward when they open it up and have it at this event. I was like, “Oh, no, that was a gift for you.”? But if they want to open it, I get that. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. And again, I think it requires you as a guest, if we knew each other well enough and I’d been to your house several times. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I’d say, “Oh, let me bring some of the wine that we had last time.” Or, “I know that you really like this sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand, let me bring some. If you choose to serve it, entirely your choice. But if you don’t choose it, then it’s yours for the rest, you keep it.” 

Kate Young: 

And you do not take it home. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And sometimes host’s gifts, if they’re wrapped, don’t expect that the host is going to unwrap it then. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, okay. That’s a good tip. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So sometimes, if it is a little ornament, just bringing it unadorned so that they can see it immediately so that they don’t have to then unwrap it and then thank you. They can say, “Oh, that’s pretty. That’s lovely. I’ll put it on the tree,” or something like that. 

Kate Young: 

Right, because they have enough going on. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. So you just don’t want to confuse things. And that’s why we have, at wedding and big events, a table for gifts that you can just put them on and a basket for cards if people bring them. There’s no absolute necessity to physically hand it to me. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Then you can retrieve them and then thank people later. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, small talk. Some people hate it, some people are gifted at it. What are some small talk dinner conversation starters? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

All right. So again, part of it is doing your homework. You don’t have to be the NSA, but you can do a little bit of background. The other thing that people don’t do particularly well is actively listen. So while a conversation is going on, you may have said something that didn’t then get developed into a further conversation, but I picked it up. So then when you and I are sitting somewhere I can say, “Didn’t I hear you just say that you were going to the Bahamas for Christmas? Oh, that’ll be nice.” Or, “Did you just come back from the Maldives?” And any time that you can ask people things that make them want to talk- 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… is a good way because it’s a conversation, it’s not me lecturing. It’s you listening and then adding in and back-and-forth. So having actively listened or found out some details, or that you just got a new puppy, or that I saw in the newspaper that you just received the Special Boilermaker Award, or you just became Small Business of the Year. All of those things I have stored that I can bring out and use if I need to. 

We’ve talked a lot about the change of seasons. Fall, “Is fall your favorite season?” It’s giving people an open-ended question allows them to express, and then it should also then lead to further topics of things that we can talk about. Because as I listen, I can hear that you’re someone who loves fall. Have you been to Maine or the East Coast? “Oh, actually, we were planning that next year.” Well, how are you going to do it, by train or are you going on a cruise? 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So it generates itself, but it needs someone to start the ball rolling. And people are afraid to just start a conversation because they don’t know. So it sounds mundane, but the weather is a great way to start. “Did you have trouble getting here? I saw that it was stormy in Colorado. How was your journey?” And people have then the incentive to give more information and make you feel that this is a conversation. And I sometimes equate it to a tennis match. 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

That your first topic is the serve and you send it over the net. And you hope that someone on the other side of the net will hit it back, and then you hit it back. And it’s back-and-forth, back-and-forth, and we’re adding to this conversation. 

We’ve all unfortunately been in the position where we start a conversation and then people will not. It’s, “Okay, try again. Let’s go this way. And we’re going to try that, and no, that one didn’t work. All right. Anyone else have anything interesting?” So sometimes it is difficult and some people just don’t want to engage in that. But small talk is really important because small talk leads you to big talk. 

The ability and the students on interviews, when they go, I say you won’t be spending all the time with the interviewer. You will be spending time with assistants, with other departments, other areas. And you have to be nice to all these people and you have to talk them. When you’re transitioning from this office to the HR department, we’re walking, you have to be talking. You can’t just leave it blank. Even though this person may not be the person you’re interviewing, I’m going to ask them afterwards. We’ve all seen Undercover Boss, I tell them that. I say the person that you go in to see who’s sitting behind a desk isn’t necessarily the person that you think it is. 

Kate Young: 

Or being rude to a waiter or receptionist, right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Well, especially at the CEO level, a lot of times, the dinner interview, the people are looking to see how you treat service. And if you treat them well, there’s a very good chance that you’ll treat employees lower down the totem pole than you well. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, the Irish exit. Are you familiar? The Irish goodbye maybe? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

That’s not really a goodbye, you just disappear? 

Kate Young: 

Yes, you just simply disappear. What is a polite way? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Right. 

Kate Young: 

Maybe the host is busy talking to someone else. Maybe you just want to get out of there as fast as possible. What’s a polite way to leave a party? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

If you got to the stand-up event or a reception-style event where it is a lot of mix and mingle drifting around, and you may have commitments to other things at different times, the key is to try and make sure that your host knew you came. So making not necessarily a beeline for them, but making sure that when you arrive, you see your hosts quickly so that they’re aware that you did come, even if you’re not going to stay very long. Then do a circuit through the room as best you can. And then always try, even if the host is talking to someone else as you have to leave, try and make eye contact. Just something that signals that they are, again, aware of the fact that you have left. Rather than, “I don’t know where she went, I’m not sure. She was here just now.” If you can, even if you have to slip away early, just try and make some contact with the host to say, “This is been wonderful, but I do have to dash. Let’s catch up next week.” 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Or something like that if you can. Or, “Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to say great party, thanks for having me. We’ll see you at the theater on Saturday,” or something like that. It makes them feel that it was a good idea to have you at the event even though you couldn’t stay for the full length. 

Kate Young: 

And you appreciated the invite. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’ve made an impression. So as I say, try and meet them when you first get there, and try and at least acknowledge the fact that you’ve had a good time and you’re heading out now. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. To wrap it up, the biggest dos and don’ts. What’s a top do this to impress people at an event and a top do not do this at an event? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You shouldn’t necessarily be just out to impress people. You should be doing things well, but not necessarily standing out- 

Kate Young: 

Like showboating? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… like showing off. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So keep it subtle, keep it light. I think we do find people who dominate the table. And I do tell people when you’re planning an event, think of the personalities that you’ve got. Because if you’ve got a strong personality and you’re hosting and we’re doing a long table rather than a round table as we’re at today. But if you have a long table and you’ve put somebody with a strong personality halfway down the table, that person will take over and you have no way of controlling that. If you have a strong personality, seat them next to you because you can physically rein them in if you have to because they’re right there. So again, that’s a good way of working out where you’re going to place people and who would be a good conversation group. Do these people have something in common? 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So it does that. Try not to dominate. If you realize that, “I’ve done all the talking,” or nobody’s had a chance to eat, again, try not to do that. Also, good manners can spoil good food. So listening to somebody talk and the food’s there, stop somebody. Don’t just let the food spoil. 

And that also brings up the buffet rule. That if you go to a buffet, it’s very likely that the rest of the people at the table are not immediately behind you in line. So when you get to the table, if there are three of you or more, you can start eating because those three people may not even arrive, or those two seats may be empty or unoccupied and you’ve been sitting there waiting for them to fill and your food is spoiling. So I always encourage people to use the buffet rule, three or more, start. 

Chewing with your mouth open. I don’t need to see your food. Eating noisily. Something it’s overwhelming. All right, yes. These people are automatically getting a no for the next invitation because you’re just not going to have people watch that again. Over-indulging. There may be very nice things offered to you, but you don’t have to necessarily take them all. And one thing I do tell students about events is that because, when you arrive, it’s likely hospitality is going to be offered quite quickly. Your choice of whether to take it then or not. You’re perfectly able to walk away and say, “I’ll be right back. Let me do some introductions.” Because yes, you might be able to hold a plate and a glass with one hand, but if you don’t have to, don’t do it. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So go around, make some introductions, and then circle back and get your drink. Circle back and get some food. So again, sometimes that is a test to see whether people have the ability to say, “No, I think I’ll wait.” 

Using the buffet as your own private dining space, no. Take some food and move away. You see something on the buffet you don’t like? Don’t put it back. Appetizers are not easy to eat standing up. We in hospitality love to watch people fail, that’s why we designed food like that. Things will crumble. So look at the food and say, “Can I deal with that?” 

Kate Young: 

That’s exactly what I do at weddings. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

Can I eat this? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Can I eat it neatly, cleanly, easily? Yes, go. No, I think I’ll pass. Take two bites. A whole egg roll is offered to you, yes, it would fit in in one go. Should it? No. Again, just dipping. One dip, one dip only. Not turning the carrot stick over and dipping the other end in. Taking things to a plate, to a vessel, rather than just eating them out of the bowl. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And sometimes events aren’t set up in the way that makes that easy. That you’ve got to find the plates- 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… or the plates and the napkins are in the wrong place. And you really want to get a plate, go down, and then at the last minute, pick up a napkin and a piece of silverware because you don’t need that for walking through the buffet. Just again, I think a lot of it is learned, but unfortunately we don’t see the opportunities to learn anymore. I will set a table with a tablecloth and people suddenly, “It’s so formal,” because they’re just not used to seeing tablecloths anymore. 

Sitting down before everyone else arrives, not good. Because then anyone else who arrives at the table, even if they’re on time, they feel like they’re late. So in a restaurant situation, you’re hosting, you’re waiting in the lobby, try and wait for all your guests in the lobby before you go to the table even though the restaurant wants you to sit down straightaway. If I arrive at 12:30, which is when I’m supposed to be there, and you’re already at the table and I’m the last there, I say, “Ooh, am I late?” Because it’s the psychological feeling that I didn’t make the right call. And if somebody does arrive late, get up and greet them and help them to their chair. It makes them, again, feel less self-conscious about being late. 

Kate Young: 

This is been fascinating. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you. Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

Is there anything I missed? Is there anything else you want to tell our listeners and viewers? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Gosh, no. Listen, learn, and copying in school, not a good thing. If somebody does something outside of school that looks good, do exactly the same thing. You can learn a lot by watching people. Oh, and when you split a check evenly, don’t argue. No divisions of, “Well, you had two glasses of wine, oh, plus tax.” 

Kate Young: 

That is so uncomfortable. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. You see people having this wonderful meal, great conversation, and then they’re arguing about $26 the end of it. It’s not very … That’s all I’m going to remember when I walk out, is that you were trying to short me for $2, or was it. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a great tip to end on. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you very much. It’s been wonderful. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. Oh, it’s been a pleasure. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

I’m sure you all learned at least one tip from Anthony throughout the interview as we head into the holiday season. I know I did. It was a blast revisiting this special episode and celebrating Anthony’s 25 years as a Boilermaker. If you haven’t been to Westwood, or maybe it’s been years since you’ve been there, you can check out our videos from Anthony’s interview on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. 

And speaking of the holidays, we would be so thankful for a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. All you have to do is find us on one of those platforms and tap “write a review” to share why you enjoy the show. And be sure to hit that five-star rating too, while you’re there. 

This Is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Thad Boone. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glozbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Ashvini Malshe and Sophie Ritz. And our creative production manager is Dalani Young. Thanks for listening to This Is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. And as always, boiler up.