Beth McCuskey: 

This is Beth McCuskey. And you’re listening to This Is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young. And you’re listening to This Is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Beth McCuskey: 

Resilience, in my mind, is really about how do you bounce back from failure? How do you take it? How do you handle disappointment? And teaching our students that skillset, I think, is just so important. That’s learned at home too. That’s the state finals that you didn’t win as a basketball team. That’s the work so hard to get a good grade and it didn’t happen for you. How do you help students process that, learn from that, and move forward? 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This Is Purdue, we’re talking to Beth McCuskey, Vice Provost for Student Life at Purdue University. Beth is a national thought leader in student mental health. And she recently co-authored an upcoming book titled The Oxford Handbook of Well-Being in Higher Education, which covers why wellness is critical in college, especially in today’s day and age. Purdue’s focus on student well-being and Beth and her team’s vital institutional efforts was also featured in Forbes, so she’s the perfect person to help us dig into two timely questions. Number one, how generational differences have shaped what wellness looks like for college students. And number two, how parents, families, mentors, and educators can prepare high school students to thrive in college. 

This conversation with Beth was super interesting and thoughtful. We discuss resiliency when it comes to overcoming failure, and how adults and other mentors can help foster resiliency skills for their students at home. Plus, we dig into social learning loss, which many people experienced during the COVID-19 pandemic, and how the emergence of social media and now AI have played a role in student well-being across generations. So let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Beth. 

Beth, thank you so much for joining us on This Is Purdue, the official university podcast. We’re going to dive into a topic that impacts all students today, and that’s well-being. We are thrilled to have you. Thanks for coming. 

Beth McCuskey: 

And absolutely thrilled to be here. I admire your work. And it’s just great to be part of your podcast. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. Thank you so much. Let’s dive right into it because this is really pressing. This isn’t just a couple students here and there who are struggling. It’s a widespread issue. Your upcoming book cites that 44% of college students are experiencing depression symptoms, and then 37% are struggling with anxiety. How do these stats underscore the need for stronger support and resources for students? 

Beth McCuskey: 

The statistics are pretty profound. That particular set came from Healthy Minds, the Healthy Minds Network. They’re a couple years old, but that number is pretty consistent with what we see here at Purdue as well as really with that age population overall, not just college students. When we think about that, we know that we have to be supportive. One of our jobs in student life is to meet students where they are. And they’re coming in and needing this extra support. We do that in two ways. First, we ramped up what we’re doing in CAPS, our counseling center, added staff to be able to meet those needs, build out a different timeline to support those students. And really just looking at it from a meeting the mental health demand process, took those steps. The other side of it, though, is really looking at the culture as a whole. And how do we build those support networks to support students? 

And one of the things that’s really important, every problem is not a mental health challenge. Every depressive moment is not necessarily a clinical depression. Helping our students tease out when we need that clinical support, but where we also might need a friendly face, a person to talk to, someone to help guide through a situation. 

Kate Young: 

I love that distinction. Sometimes it might just be a student having a bad day- 

Beth McCuskey: 

Exactly. 

Kate Young: 

… instead of needing clinical help. 

Beth McCuskey: 

Exactly right. 

Kate Young: 

Your upcoming book is titled The Oxford Handbook of Well-Being in Higher Education. You’re a co-author on it. So well-being is part of that book title, but let’s dig into what well-being means to you. 

Beth McCuskey: 

I am blessed to be working with my co-editor, who’s actually the lead editor, Louis Tay. He is a psychologist by training, organizational psychologist here at Purdue, a professor, extremely prolific. He is a great researcher. And together, he brings the research side and I bring the applied side. For our book, we looked at well-being as very holistic in nature. We want to have our students be flourishing in various domains in life, not just academically, that’s obviously very important, but also socially, even financially, making sure that they’re taking care of their finances appropriately and have options available to them to learn more in that space, looking at how they get along, whether it’s academically, socially, or even just exercise and taking care of their body. Whatever domains are important to students, we want to be there to support them and we want them to flourish in those spaces. 

Kate Young: 

What are some of those internal and external factors that can influence students’ well-being? 

Beth McCuskey: 

We like to look at things both psychological, so how do I handle things as a human? But then also sociological, so how does the community support an individual? And so from the human side, it’s how am I taking care of myself? Do I have the skillset? Do I have resiliency skills? Am I getting enough sleep? Am I going to the gym? Am I doing things to take care of me? And how do I build out that skillset? On the sociological side, it’s really looking at our community as a whole. And how are we really building out that safety net to support our students through their academic journey? 

Kate Young: 

And you talked about some of the ups and downs of life. 

Beth McCuskey: 

One of the things we know is that failure is an important part of the experience. And if you’re taking risks … And we want students, we want all of us to take risk because that means that we’re trying new things. And so when we take risks, we are bound to fall on our face sometimes. That is a normal part of development. We want people to realize that just because you fail, you can still pick up and go. That doesn’t mean you don’t take time for yourself, you don’t be mad about it or sad about it. That’s normal. That’s fine. But then what do you do? And can you learn from that mistake? Can you pick apart what happened? And then how do you translate that to the next phase? 

Kate Young: 

And you touched on sometimes the really exciting highs of your life are also stressful. I was thinking wedding planning is a great example of that. 

Beth McCuskey: 

Wedding planning is a great example. With students, we think of those transitions and how stressful those can be. And so we think of our brand new students coming into higher education, super excited to be here, but that’s also a stressful time. And then similarly, as you’re thinking about that next phase and you’re getting ready to graduate and take on life in a new way, that’s also stressful too. Even those highs can be moments of stress. And so just helping people normalize that and work through it. 

Kate Young: 

That makes total sense. I remember coming to Purdue and your parents aren’t around. You don’t have maybe home-cooked meals. There are so many different things. And then again, when you’re graduating and maybe students don’t have a job yet or that stress, it’s exciting to be graduating and being part of that next chapter, but if you don’t know what’s coming, that’s also very stressful. 

Beth McCuskey: 

It is. It’s tough to … Even contemplating moving to a new place can be stressful. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. So how are universities like Purdue adapting to this need of this well-being journey for students? 

Beth McCuskey: 

I think on multiple fronts. And so when we first started seeing this demand increase for mental health services, I think the first thing out of the gate was to ramp up our counseling services. And this is true across the board. People added staff, we added therapists, but we got to this point where we realized it was definitely more than that, that we had to start building out a culture that supports. We have done things at Purdue, and this actually predates some of the changes in CAPS. We have a model called Student of Concern, and we talk about that all over the place. Students know this, faculty know this. Heck, we even had an Uber driver who knew this. So if there is concern about a student, they can fill out a quick online form, and our Dean of Students’ office will reach out to that student and just check in with them and make sure they’re doing okay. 

That is one part of our safety network that we build in to be supportive. So we do things like that, we have the therapy services, but we’re also looking at ways to help students help each other. So peer networks are crucial. Candidly, students would rather hear from each other than from me. How do we tap into their natural curiosity and their energy in this space? And so several examples include we have a group called the Mental Health Action Week. It’s a student organization now, but that model was actually started by our student government several years ago. And it’s just a time to celebrate understanding about mental health, making sure people are aware of resources, but also doing some fun things just for stress busters and to make things a little bit easier. Our CAPS office, we have a phenomenal guy that leads our well-being division and our counseling services, Chris Hanes. 

He started a CAPS ambassador program, and these are students who understand the services offered in CAPS, can talk about mental health. They’re absolutely not therapists, they’re students, but they just help their fellow students recognize what’s available to them. He just had the call-out for the next season’s ambassadors and had 80 students interested in the role, so students are very, very interested in this. 

Kate Young: 

From all of your experiences in higher ed, and even you said that your children are Millennials, how is this conversation surrounding well-being different across the generations from Millennials to Gen Z and now Gen Alpha coming up? 

Beth McCuskey: 

I love talking about generations, but I also … There has to be a caveat too because sometimes we lump people together in generations and assume that you’re a Millennial, therefore you must be. And that’s absolutely not true. Discussions about generations are really about shared experiences of an age group. So that’s essentially what we’re talking about here. But when we look back, my career has been over 30 years in higher education. And I remember as a very early career person, the beginning of the Millennials coming in. Millennials weren’t talking about well-being at all. Millennials were talking about their experiences. They wanted to touch and experience every facet of higher education. They wanted to join lots of organizations. They may have changed their major a few times. They wanted to experience it all. The other component of Millennials that change higher education, I believe, since has been the involvement of parents. 

So Millennials brought their parents to college. Parents jumped in in huge ways in terms of trying to pave the way for their students. So when I look back at that era, which was most of the 2000s, the early 2000s, that was kind of what we were experiencing. So you flash forward, and Gen Z enter college in the mid-teens, and that’s where we started seeing some of the increase for mental health services. And I attribute some of this to a generational shift that happened in terms of what this group wanted out of their collegiate experience. So where Millennials were very focused on those experiences, Gen Z just wanted the outcomes. And so they’re looking at what is next? And how do I prepare myself for that? Looking at college as kind of a ladder that they’re climbing to the next thing. Through this process, they are putting so much pressure on themselves to excel and to be the best and to have grand opportunities in life that they sometimes need that extra support. 

And so when we’re thinking ahead now, Gen Alpha’s, by the numbers, probably a few years out, but I’m already seeing some shifts in how students are approaching things. We are seeing far more desire to be involved again. I mentioned CAPS ambassadors jumping in and 80 people wanting to do this work. We’re seeing that all over the place. Students are flourishing in huge ways. Another nuance we’re seeing, we do the Gallup Strengths, which is a component of the first year program, our BGR program. The last two years, we’ve seen, in the top five strengths of our students, empathy come out. And so this concern for others, I think, is evolving. There is definitely a shift from not caring too much about well-being to very focused on well-being in part because of this outcome to this, I believe, will be a highly engaged group again, but with this focus on well-being continuing. 

The other component I’d like to share here, I think technology has played a role in every one of these generations. And so when you think about Millennials, Millennials inherited the internet. They were the first generation that grew up online, but they were doing this from dial-up modems at home as children, not from the internet in their pocket, which is what Gen Z brings to the table. They have the smartphone. They can access the internet at all times. Social media has become prevalent, and so they’re engaged in that space considerably. And for the Alphas coming in next, AI is going to be the big technology shift. And I suspect that that will transform how they expect their experiences to be, but also how we do our work to support them. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. That’s all so interesting. Going back to Gen Z too, and I know when we talked earlier, you had said they want everything to be linear, and that’s not how life is. There’s going to be things that don’t work out their way. Do you think that social media had an impact on that? They’re seeing these people with these, “Perfect lives,” or they’re on Instagram and they see all these glossy, incredible things, and they think that everyone can have that or they specifically can have access to that? 

Beth McCuskey: 

I think social media absolutely plays a role here. There’s a lot of different research. In fact, we have a chapter in our book about social media. It’s kind of all over the place. For students who have healthy self-esteem and use online to explore new options, new ways of doing things, there is a healthy approach that works. I think for students who are using their tools to compare themselves, who may feel that they’re left out or that they’ll never excel, that can be a problem. I also think that sometimes people put personas that are a little maybe not quite themselves, so they’re putting these aspirational personas on social media and seeing how those get likes. And sometimes that can be … It can just be problematic because if you’re looking for likes for something that you’re really not, what does that say to you? And so I think there’s positives with social media use, but absolutely, the comparison component has been a major issue. 

There’s just been a study. It’s in the Journal of the American Medical Association online version. They basically did a social media break or a smartphone break for a week. And they used mental health tools for depression and anxiety, for example, to assess pre and post. And these individuals that participated had higher overall well-being, so lower scores on these indicators for depression and for anxiety. And so there’s something there too. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. So when I was at Purdue, I did not have internet on my phone. I did not have a smartphone until I was 22 or 23. It was just so much more like living in the moment and you didn’t know where people were and you didn’t know what people were posting or what … And there was just something to that that made life a lot easier, I think. 

Beth McCuskey: 

I agree. I think the online presence that’s continually in our face has just added a layer of complexity. It’s just tough to navigate. 

Kate Young: 

Going back to the younger generations having these more open conversations about mental health, older generations had to navigate a lot of different tough things too. So where do you think this shift developed when it comes to access to more mental health resources? And what do you think that means for current students? 

Beth McCuskey: 

First, I think that every generation has kind of badgered the people who follow. I just think of the Baby Boomers, for example. They had the long hair, right? So cut your hair, hippies, right? And they pushed envelopes right and left. And the music, right? Rock and roll. My goodness. How horrible is rock and roll? They rocked the world in the ’60s and ’70s, and took a lot of flak for it from their elders. I think there are examples, you could probably just research this online, where there will be some quote about the youth of today, and you think it’s a current quote, and it’s some historical figure from years ago making those comments. So I think that’s just part of human nature to do that. But with that said, my sense on some of this is that particularly, I think the 2008 financial crisis hit very hard. 

My theory, this is only my theory. I do not have research to support this. But my theory is that that moment in time, the leading edge of the Millennials had just entered the workforce. They, in many cases, might’ve been first in, first out in terms of layoffs. We had a group that was following that had a hard time maybe securing good employment. And they were very angry that they did not have a good experience, that their higher education did not guarantee them that dream job that they were looking for. And they, at that moment in time, were our largest generation. Their parents, the Baby Boomers, were the second-largest generation, who was also ticked. And so I think we had this generation that was just upset that they weren’t launching the way that they had hoped. And I think when the next generation came in in the teens, they believed that they were going to make the most of this experience. 

They weren’t going to waste time in college. They weren’t going to waste money trying new things. They were going to get through and they were going to get a good job. So I think it just transformed how they approached the experience. From there, I think the pressures were just pretty significant in terms of trying to get the best job and believing that maybe other people might be doing better than I am in this space. And then that pressure just leads to that cyclical stuff that’s really, really hard to navigate. The other point I want to make in this space, I think people were much more inclined to seek help now than they would’ve been a generation or two ago, and that’s a good thing. We don’t want to say that that’s a bad thing. And so I think that factors in. But I also think, and this is not belittling mental health at all, I think that somehow the language that’s used becomes more encompassing than what is actually happening. 

So saying, “I’m depressed,” and maybe filling out a survey that says I’m depressed may not be the same thing as being clinically depressed. I think that we’ve just expanded language to broaden these terms, these psychological terms to express our feelings as a whole. So that could be part of what’s happening as well. 

Kate Young: 

Those are great points. It’s something that I’m really interested in. I’ve listened to a couple podcasts about this and read articles. Obviously, the pandemic has changed so many things. So what are some of those educational and social challenges that are unique to Gen Z and Gen Alpha? 

Beth McCuskey: 

I think the pandemic was a rough time for everybody. I look back at how we handled things at Purdue, which was just a monumental time for us in terms of staying open during this time period. One of the things that we did during that era, we were really worried about our new beginner students because they came in during the pandemic with the social restrictions, masking, and social distancing. The events that we had might have had fewer people or sometimes we couldn’t have events at all, depending where we were with the cycle of the disease itself. We did a survey just to see how are people doing? And then we looked at various variables in terms of the people who were doing well versus maybe not so well. And one of the key things for students for belongingness was having more classes in-person. That in-person instruction matters in terms of people finding their home and finding that belongingness. 

It is that community of learning that residential campus represents, and that’s just such an important part of the fiber and really make an impact, I think, on students. We hear a lot about learning loss. We heard a lot about K-12 learning loss where these children were trying to take classes from home, their parents were trying to help teach them. And once school was back in session in kind of more normal ways, some of the test scores just weren’t there. But we also saw what we would call social learning loss. And so students coming into campus with their last year in high school, maybe last couple years in high school, where they were socially distanced, where they weren’t working with other people, where they didn’t have to make hard decisions or argue over with our friends, “Should we go here or there?” and just negotiate things out. 

And we saw a real uptick in conflicts, where people couldn’t resolve conflicts. It feels like in this era, we want our students to leave being able to solve conflicts and bring people together and solve these huge problems, but we’re seeing cases where students couldn’t ask their roommate to pick up their dirty clothes from the floor, right? So there’s a little loss there. 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Beth McCuskey: 

So we work to try to build out those skillsets for students. We got into doing some work in the conflict competence area. How do you resolve things? We have some online tools. And actually, some of my team members are teaching a course this spring in that space. And the online tools have been helpful. One of the spaces that’s using them is group projects. So if you think about it, when you’re working in a group with other students, you’ve got to negotiate it all. Who’s doing what part? And who’s turning what in when? So having a bit of a skill booster in this space, I think, is very helpful. 

Kate Young: 

And you just think about maybe they didn’t get to go to their high school prom, their graduation, these huge, monumental social events in your life that they had to miss out on. 

Beth McCuskey: 

Absolutely. Well, and just building the social skills to connect with people. When you come in from high school with a smaller number of people to a large campus, that’s tough in any times. So if you haven’t had that background to be able to navigate and socialize and build those connections, that just made it even harder. And so I think our work was a lot more how to bring people together, how to help support just those connections. A lot of our work was around our student organizations because a lot of the learning was lost when people graduated. And so if they didn’t have a normal experience of what that student organization did, for example, having to ramp that back up and teach again what this organization does. Let’s say they’re putting on a program, let’s talk about what that looks like and how we get it done and how you build the structure to do it. So there were absolutely some scaffolding taking place on that front too. 

Kate Young: 

We touched on this a little bit, this access to social media and now AI. How will that continue to impact the well-being of Gen Z and Gen Alpha college students? 

Beth McCuskey: 

I think that AI is one of the big unknowns. I think that there’s a lot of opportunity for AI to help distill information, to help us think through things, but we’re seeing more and more data that suggests that students are using AI tools as pseudo-coaches or therapists, asking mental health types of questions to these tools. And they’re not trained therapists. And in some cases, may provide false information. In some cases, are trained to reflect back to you what you want to hear, which may not be what you need to hear. I think there’s some danger with that aspect. But I also think that, again, we’re all going to be using AI. And so what tools might we develop that support in this space that aren’t algorithms that get people connected and hooked, but that are truly help tools that are grounded in research and how to best coach and help students? 

Kate Young: 

You used the word resilience earlier. What does resilience look like for today’s young people? 

Beth McCuskey: 

Resilience, in my mind, is really about how do you bounce back from failure? How do you take it? How do you handle disappointment? And teaching our students that skillset, I think, is just so important. And that’s learned at home too. That’s the state finals that you didn’t win as a basketball team. That’s the work so hard to get a good grade and it didn’t happen for you. How do you help students process that, learn from that, and move forward? 

Kate Young: 

Let’s dive into how people at home, parents, educators, coaches, how can they help build and foster resiliency within their young people? 

Beth McCuskey: 

I think out of the gate, normalizing failure, but learning from failure. None of us want to fail, and we certainly don’t want to fail all the time. But when that does happen, how do we help people pick up from that and kind of learn to advance themselves through that from what you learned from it? And so I think that’s absolutely one of the ways to build resilience. Another huge component of resilience is your social network. And we’re not talking online social networks. We’re talking humans. And so having a robust network of humans that you can rely on, that you can talk to, that you can trust, that represent lots of different aspects of you, whether that’s the field of study, whether that’s an interest or hobby, whether that’s spiritual, family, there are just so many ways to go here, but just having that network to be there for you. 

The flip side of that, though, is for networks to be most effective, you have to give back to that network. You have to be there for other people. And honestly, that act of giving is such a form of well-being too because you just feel good when you help somebody. 

Kate Young: 

It’s rewarding, right? 

Beth McCuskey: 

Absolutely rewarding. So helping students build those skillsets to pick themselves up from failure as well as ties into these networks and what that means for folks. 

Kate Young: 

Is there a top tip that you tell parents? “Hey, do this thing in high school to help prepare your students for college”? 

Beth McCuskey: 

Out of the gate, certainly the time management skills, study skills, coming in with, “It’s going to be tougher in college than it was in high school.” And so how do you allocate your time? And how do you build out those pieces? The other big one I would advocate for is help seeking. And so knowing when you need to ask for help. “I’m just not getting this.” And not being afraid to reach out and find the resources. Purdue is just full of resources all over the place who are eager to help students. And so finding ways to support students, to build out their own … It’s a form of resiliency too, knowing when to ask for help. 

Kate Young: 

You touched on this earlier, you said that Millennials brought their parents to college with them. What is a top piece of advice when it comes to parents supporting well-being from afar? 

Beth McCuskey: 

I think a couple things here too. First, I think helping their students help themselves, not getting into it to solve it for them, but helping them with the skills to take this on themself and resolve it. There are times where families get involved and it makes perfect sense. There are times where people can’t seem to get the right person to talk to or navigate the situation, and that’s totally fine. But that self-resilience in terms of being able to solve your own problems is just phenomenal. The other thing I would say, and this goes back to networks, I just can’t say this one enough. Purdue is such a rich tapestry of individuals. And once you join our community, you are part of this community for life. You are part of this vast alumni network, so take advantage of opportunities. You will have chances to meet CEOs in your classes. 

We have programs like Old Masters or Executive in Residence that bring people in specifically to talk to students. Take advantage of those opportunities. But the other part of networks is building your friend group. You are among and you may be the next CEO, you may be the next astronaut, and your friends are going to be in that space too, the innovators of tomorrow. And so building that friend group and maintaining that friend group throughout life just makes you part of this tapestry forever. And then of course, as an older student, perhaps paying it forward to the younger students. As alumni, paying it forward to students. There’s just that way to give back and keep this amazing system that is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

I love that. Something else too is when you touched on being able to solve your own problems or kind of sourcing solutions, being solutions-oriented is so important when you graduate too- 

Beth McCuskey: 

Absolutely. 

Kate Young: 

… in your job, in the workforce, right? 

Beth McCuskey: 

Absolutely. 

Kate Young: 

So in 2018, your team saw a need for mental healthcare access and resources, and you developed the Steps to Leaps framework here at Purdue. Tell us a little bit about that initial need for this framework. And how has it helped students over the years? 

Beth McCuskey: 

So Steps to Leaps evolved after we invested in some mental health services early on and realized we need to build out a culture here. And so we worked with students to build Steps to Leaps. So these concepts were totally student-driven. And so the themes embedded in Steps to Leaps are well-being overall, which is pretty self-explanatory, leadership, which we’re framing as that self-development and that professional development, so reinvesting in yourself throughout your life, impact, which is a Gen Z thing, wanting to make a big difference. And so how do you make a big difference? And recognizing that small differences matter too. Networks, which we’ve talked about a lot, being able to build that network and support that network, and then grit or persistence, that resiliency set of skills. And so out of the gate, we started by building some modules in the space. We tied with faculty who teach in these spaces and research in these spaces to bring their materials forward. 

We have done so much since. We have a student organization that is Steps to Leaps-oriented. We give annual Steps to Leaps awards. We have a program that embeds these principles in the classroom. And we have small stipends for faculty to work with these well-being topics in their classroom. Steps to Leaps is the framework that we’re using for well-being as a whole. So as we’re looking at how our students grow in this space, the framework of these individual pillars are how we’re looking at that growth. This has taken us far. We launched this in fall of ’19 and had some of these online tools already set up, and then hit the pandemic. So it was so fortuitous that we’d already thought through a lot of these things and had them available. But the model has just grown from there. 

Kate Young: 

That’s exciting. I mentioned the 2025 Forbes article at the beginning of this interview. And it said Purdue is at the forefront of well-being. What are a few of those key strategies and implementations that you and your team adopted that has made Purdue a true leader in this space? 

Beth McCuskey: 

One of the things I think is so important is our President and his wife are so passionate about this topic, and that is crystal clear with how they’re supportive. We had some investment into CAPS right out of the gate with President Chiang. And Kei is super, super supportive as a medical professional, as a doctor. She totally gets this and is supportive as well. And so I think that framing is really important. If you’re building an institutional culture, the top has to tie in and be supportive of it. I think other ways are just the reach that we have with embedding faculty. Everybody has a different lens through their work on the student experience, on how we understand well-being. And so what tools can you bring to the table? And we encourage people to do that across the campus as a whole. 

Kate Young: 

What does institutionalizing student well-being mean? 

Beth McCuskey: 

It means that we believe in this, that we have people across the board who are supporting the concept. It doesn’t mean every single person has to do it and get it and do it, but it does mean that we have people who … From a faculty lens, how do we embed this from an academic side? It means our researchers who are doing well-being research are tied in and we talk to them and try to understand from their learnings how to support students in new ways. It means the students taking the mantle as we have student organizations dedicated to this space. And so it’s really kind of top to bottom. Everybody has a place in this space and we just work together to make it a reality. 

Kate Young: 

When you think of the work that’s being done right now in student well-being, what motivates you and inspires you and gets you excited about the future? 

Beth McCuskey: 

Well, I am always excited by our students. They are a joy. Purdue students are brilliant. They are curious. They are just wanting to learn and wanting to grow. And so that makes our job very, very easy to work with them. It’s just phenomenal. I mentioned AI. I think AI is the new frontier for a lot of our work. And how that works, how do we tackle our next set of challenges with these tools, I think, is going to be important. I think it’s going to be profound. We’re already playing with AI in some of our operational spaces. So for example, our dining menus are driven partly through an AI model. We’re playing around with student organizations and selecting a student organization. So what orgs appeal to you as a student? And how might this work? We’re playing around with our activity forms, of which there are thousands because our students are doing thousands of activities. 

And is there a way to sift through these to bring the ones to the top that might need a little more support and attention? So I think operationally, we’re already playing in this space. I think the part that’s going to be different, though, is that support piece. And how are these tools being used to support students directly or through a moderated approach? They’re already using social media and AI tools to engage, to learn, and kind of even as pseudo-therapists. And so are there ways to support them through this space? But in a obviously very ethical approach, there’s just a lot here that’s so new that we have to think through and make sure that we’re managing very appropriately. But it is the new frontier, I believe. 

Kate Young: 

Well, Beth, this was so interesting. I could probably talk to you all day. But is there anything else that I missed that you want to tell our listeners and our viewers today? 

Beth McCuskey: 

Well, I absolutely have to plug our book. So Louis Tay and I are co-editors of … It is The Oxford University Press Handbook of Well-Being in Higher Education. It will be released later this year. This book is unlike anything that’s been produced thus far. It has 46 chapters reflecting tons of aspects of well-being on campus, about 130 contributors from all over the world. And so we are super excited to be launching this this year. 

Kate Young: 

We can’t thank you enough for joining us. And it was a pleasure talking to you. 

Beth McCuskey: 

Likewise. Thank you so very much. 

Kate Young: 

We can’t thank Beth enough for joining us on This Is Purdue. Her upcoming book, The Oxford Handbook of Well-Being in Higher Education, will be available this summer with the online issue coming out in June and the print issue releasing in August. And if you’re interested in learning more about student well-being at Purdue, we have plenty of links and resources in our show notes for you. Be sure to follow This Is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Plus, we’re on YouTube and you can subscribe to our show on there too. 

This Is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Thad Boone, in collaboration with John Garcia, Alli Chaney, and Zach Mogensen. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube Promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Ashvini Malshe. And our creative production manager is Dalani Young. Thanks for listening to This Is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. And as always, Boiler up.

Mike Bobinski: 

This is Mike Bobinski, and you’re listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you’re listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni, taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Mike Bobinski: 

I think a lot of it has to do with our coaches and who they identify as the right young people that will be successful at Purdue. We don’t ever want it to become purely a transactional relationship. That’s not going to work here at Purdue. Never has, never will. We’re going to continue to recruit young people that are interested in the full Purdue experience, that want to be real students, that want to grow in other ways outside of athletics, but also want to win and compete at a really high level. We’re looking for the whole package and they’re out there. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we’re talking to Mike Bobinski. As the executive vice president and director of intercollegiate athletics at Purdue for the last 10 years, Mike has seen a lot of change within the NCAA. Mike is a thought leader in the college athletics landscape, with more than 40 years of experience under his belt. He’s previously worked for Georgia Tech, Xavier University, the University of Akron, and the US Naval Academy. In today’s modern era of name, image, and likeness, and direct payment to student athletes, Mike has unique insights into what it will take for Purdue to remain nationally competitive. Not to mention he has a deep knowledge of Boilermaker athletics overall, including future growth, innovation, and donor engagement. 

It’s the perfect episode to kick off our spring 2026 season, and This is Purdue is proud to give all of our sports fans a deep dive into the state of Purdue athletics. Something I really enjoyed about my conversation with Mike was that he didn’t just dive into our most televised, high profile sports like basketball, for example. He really highlighted Purdue athletics as a whole and dug into all different programs like wrestling, golf, tennis, swimming and diving and more. So let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Mike … Mike, thank you for joining us on This Is Purdue. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Sure enough, Kate. Thanks for having me. 

Kate Young: 

Thanks for coming to our turf over here. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Sure enough. 

Kate Young: 

So you’ve been the AD and the executive vice president at Purdue for the last 10 years. You have more than 40 years of experience in college athletics. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Thanks for the reminder. 

Kate Young: 

So we’re just so excited because you are such a thought leader in this space. We’re going to dig into NIL a little bit, how that’s changed the game. We’re going to dig into Boilermaker athletics for all of our Purdue fans out there and just get a special sneak peek of Purdue athletics from you. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Absolutely. I’ll try to do my part. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. So we’ll kick it off with NIL. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Sure. 

Kate Young: 

Things have been changing so much. We just had a wonderful interview with PJ Thompson. He was reflecting on how much things have changed, but for Purdue, it’s really the basics and the importance of education still. I think that’s so special here at Purdue. What have you seen with this policy and how it’s impacted Purdue personally? 

Mike Bobinski: 

From a Purdue perspective, I would say this, we have definitely tried to retain the fundamental values and the core values that we’ve been built on for many, many years. We’re still about education. We’re still about developing our young people from the time they get here till the time they leave into folks that are going to have a great life when college is over. We’ve tried not to lose our way with all that, but the world around us has changed and you have to adapt. You have to adjust and you have to make sure that you remain competitive as the world turns. And so we have tried to do that very much. And so just a little bit of a history. And we could literally do the entire podcast on the NIL topic, which thank goodness we won’t, but I’ll give you a condensed version of where that’s come and how it’s affected us here at Purdue. 

Back in 2021, NIL was permitted for the very first time. For years and years and years, student athletes could not give a lesson for anything, they couldn’t run a camp, they couldn’t do anything for compensation. And then all of a sudden the world changed. And the original intent was that the use of your name, image and likeness, which is central to your being, you’d now be allowed to be compensated for that. And for the unique skills and abilities that any individual might have accumulated to that point in time, made great sense. President Daniels was in place at that point and we were 100% in favor of that because it just was a fundamental right that we believed student athletes should have like other students have. If you’re a great musician, if you’re a great theater performer or a great entrepreneur as a student, you can make money on that. 

And so student athletes, let’s do that. So it began that way. We were all for it and continued to be all for it. As things would happen in college athletics, it morphed into something different for over a period of time. It became not just that true NIL where you’re actually using your brand value for endorsements or other types of compensation, but it became really a pay for play hiding under the umbrella of NIL. And that’s the way the world evolved. And we, like everybody, had to participate in that at some level in order to remain competitive. And so we did so. We were very fortunate to have a group called the Boilermaker Alliance formed down in Indianapolis with some really, really terrific Purdue people that wanted to help us athletically be competitive. And so they formed this group down there and they helped us in the NIL world tremendously. 

They were the vehicle that we were able to accomplish NIL payments and activities through for a number of years. And that spent was a really, really good thing. Then fast-forward to really January to June 30th of this year, of 2025, when we were on the cusp of a settlement of multiple lawsuits that had been brought against college athletics. In that period of time, there was a signal given by the leadership and the authorities in college athletics that, “Hey, for this last six months, we’re really not going to look very hard at whatever might happen in the NIL world.” It was take your last big swing. And so everybody went for it in that period of time, as did we at Purdue. And we front loaded basically a lot of NIL payments during that period of time before the settlement actually took effect on July 1, which really had a lot to do with how this year’s roster were established, particularly in the sports where it’s most prevalent that NIL is a real factor. 

And that’s football, men’s basketball, women’s basketball, volleyball. We did a lot of that same front loading that a lot of other people did, which was to our great benefit. It’s partly how we were able to rebuild the football roster, bring in 82 new players, retain the core of our men’s basketball roster. We were able to do a lot of things through that NIL activity. So I can’t say it’s a bad thing because it benefited us in lots of ways. Well, then July one happens. The settlement is now in effect and NIL is meant to return to its original purpose, what they call true NIL, where it is in fact Kate Young, endorsing a product or given a lesson or doing something that actually trades on your brand value and what you can bring to a transaction. So there is now an organization called NIL GO, which is the clearing house for NIL deals, which has to approve everything above $600, 600 and above has to go to this clearing house where they say, yes, the paying entity is a valid business purpose. 

It doesn’t exist just to pay student athletes. It has some other valid business purpose and the compensation that’s being proposed falls within some acceptable range of compensation. It’s not outrageous. We’re not asking you to sign one autograph and pay you a million dollars. That’s not an acceptable range of compensation. So all these deals now are being put through this clearinghouse for review. That will really become a thing for the Purdues and the power four schools in this next year because we all did the front loading and took care of this year already. So now as we look ahead, we’ll be submitting deals. And we have already, we’ve submitted 60 to 70 deals to the clearing house already. 40 plus of them have been approved, a few of them have been unapproved or disproved, and then a few are still under review. 

So we’ve had some activity already in understanding how that world works. We are prepared and need to be very active in that space going forward. The other reality is the best way for it to happen for us going forward is for either Purdue led businesses or Purdue affiliated businesses, whether they partner with us from a research perspective or a corporate partnership perspective or other ways. Maybe they’re significant vendors to the university. For those folks to be really helpful to us in the NIL world will really provide us a competitive advantage and opportunity going forward. So we’re going to work really hard to source those opportunities and develop those to make sure that our student athletes are receiving the same types of opportunities that they are at other schools. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you for explaining all that. 

Mike Bobinski: 

That was a lot. I get it. 

Kate Young: 

No, but you see it in the headlines so much and it’s sometimes hard to grasp unless you’re in the collegiate athletics world. 

Mike Bobinski: 

No question. It has become the most misused and misunderstood term. It’s used when it doesn’t really apply. People sometimes think that the new revenue sharing opportunities are also NIL. Well, not really. Those are payments that actually flow through the university. So there are multiple avenues of supporting student athletes these days, but it all gets lumped under that term for those that aren’t in it every day. We’re in it every day, so we have to understand it, but I can’t expect others to do that. And we’ll do our best to educate and inform and make sure, again, that Purdue is competitive in that space. 

Kate Young: 

How are you navigating this new normal, but also sticking to Purdue’s core principles, fostering success after they’re an athlete, after school ends? 

Mike Bobinski: 

Sure. I think a lot of it has to do with our coaches and who they identify as the right young people that’ll be successful at Purdue. We don’t ever want it to become purely a transactional relationship. That’s not going to work here at Purdue. Never has, never will. We’re going to continue to recruit young people that are interested in the full Purdue experience, that want to be real students, that want to grow in other ways outside of athletics, but also want to win and compete at a really high level. We’re looking for the whole package and they’re out there. I mean, I know they’re out there and we have multiple examples in our midst right now in multiple sports that clearly are those young people. And so we just have to work that much harder, that much smarter to make sure that we bring those kind of young people to Purdue. That’s going to be our secret sauce for success. 

Kate Young: 

How is Purdue mentoring student athletes when it comes to their personal branding and entrepreneurship? What are the programs that you guys provide? 

Mike Bobinski: 

So we’ve got a whole unit within the athletic department called Student Athlete Development. That is their sole purpose in life is to make sure that we provide all those value added services for our student athletes. And it’s about building your brand. It’s about financial literacy. It’s about career preparation and personal growth and development. All those types of things, how to communicate, how to build a resume, how to do all those things. So there’s multiple programs that are conducted throughout the course of the year to do so. We’ve also hired a couple people that are working solely in the NIL space and they meet individually with teams and or student athletes that have an interest in pursuing those opportunities and help bring them along and show them best practices from around the country so that they can then, again, take that on personally and go out and source their own deals. 

Some of our highest profile athletes actually have marketing agents, marketing agencies or others that are representing them in that space. For instance, when Zach was here, he had somebody that looked for deals for him and his situation was a little more complicated because he was a Canadian citizen. So he had to do things outside of the country, he couldn’t do certain things in the United States. Other athletes that we have today have those same types of services working on their behalf. And that’s to their credit and to their great benefit. Their profile is high enough that they can warrant those types of opportunities. 

Kate Young: 

It’s so interesting too with social media and your personal brand, what you wear, what you say. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Yes, I think it’s an amazing educational opportunity for young people more than just whatever the money might be. Some of that gets grossly overstated and exaggerated. I mean, there’s a lot of fantasy and myth that goes in and around what is and isn’t really happening, but just the awareness of what it means to be on all the time. Because if you damage your brand, you lose value these days. It is a real thing. So you have to be really aware of how you present yourself, how you carry yourself. If you’re a poor sport in the competition world, I mean, that can hurt your brand. 

I mean, there are just so many ways that it can go the wrong way on you. And I think that’s a great learning experience for our young people to realize that, hey, it all can either add to or detract from just know what you’re doing at all times. What you put out on social media matters. How you carry yourself matters. And then really the other piece for those that are fortunate enough to make or to have real financial opportunities, understanding what it means to manage resources, to pay your taxes. 

To Do those things that are fast forwarding these young folks towards adulthood here in a way that’s really interesting. And I know this on our men’s basketball program, I think six or seven of them are working with the same financial advisor out of Indianapolis who we brought up to do a seminar for our athletes. And they were like, “Hey, this person is really sharp.” They’re working with them from an investment perspective and having to make sure that they don’t just waste whatever it is they’re receiving now. So again, I think just a lot of really good lessons that hopefully will carry on well beyond their time at Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

What do you think though for the current direction of NIL? Is it sustainable for college sports? 

Mike Bobinski: 

I think if we can get it corralled into what it is meant to be where true NIL becomes the way that we all do business, I think that is entirely healthy. I think we’ve already figured out that, our athletes have figured out that you can only put so much time into those types of activities because you’ve still got to be a student. You’ve still got to meet all your athletic commitments. You want to have a social life. You want to do all the things that a college student does. And if you’re spending every waking moment trying to just chase an NIL opportunity, something’s going to give, you only have so much capacity in a day to do certain things. And so I think they’ve figured that out. 

But I think from an overall environment perspective, if we can operate NIL as it is meant to be and have that become that supplement to the revenue sharing opportunities and that value add, I think that is a sustainable condition that would be really healthy for college athletics. Now getting there has been a fight. It hasn’t been that long. And unfortunately we were in the position of having to build the system as we were operating it. And we, by we, I mean the college athletics enterprise, the College Sports Commission, the new entity that’s governing all that, they were put under a very tight timeframe and they’re still figuring out the best structure in hiring staff to really enforce the guidelines and the rules. 

If we can get all that right, I think it’s really healthy for the enterprise. And I’ll give my two cents on that. I know President Chang and I talk about this all the time. If we truly want college athletics to be sustainable and to add all the value that it adds in so many ways to not only the individuals that are in it, but to a university setting and all the great gathering place that it’s become and that point of pride, you’ve got to be sustainable and you’ve got to have rules. You can’t operate any entity of that scale, of the scale of college athletics without structure, without guidelines. I mean, if you just let it find its own way, it’ll ultimately implode, in my opinion. We all have to at some point agree, operate within some structure that makes sense. I’m hopeful, I wish I was certain, but I’m hopeful that we’re going to get there. 

Kate Young: 

Let’s dive into something probably equally as interesting or more so for people. The state of Purdue athletics. 

Mike Bobinski: 

There you go. 

Kate Young: 

2025, what has been the most exciting thing for you? 

Mike Bobinski: 

2025. Let’s see. Well, if I think back to the springtime, which was, we’ll go into the calendar year 25, I was really proud to wear a men’s basketball program with less than stellar expectations. You lose a player like Zach, who’s a generational two-time national player of the year, such an impact person in so many ways. And then to have them as the year went on just get better and better and then really be this close once again to playing in the Elite Eight and we would’ve faced our nemesis in Tennessee and I know they didn’t want to play us because we’ve had our way with them. 

That was really a special moment. But other programs have really done good things during the course of 2025. I know men’s and women’s golf isn’t a high profile program, but for the last two years, we’ve placed both of our men’s and women’s golf teams in the national championship. I think we’re one of four or five schools in the country to send both of those teams in each of the last two years. And it doesn’t get talked about much because it’s not a front page type situation, but we’ve got just exceptionally talented young people on our men’s and women’s golf program. And it’s really fun to watch that happen. Our softball program’s getting really much, much better. Maggie Frezzotti is unbelievably talented, fiery, young coach. And I love what she’s doing. Our players love playing for her. She creates a great winning environment and culture, and it’s been fun to watch that. 

And multiple other programs are doing those same things. And in this fall, I would tell you that I’ve been really pleased with our volleyball program. Coach Shondell, we’re in the same boat here. We’ve both been at it for a long time, and to watch him have to adapt and rebuild that roster this year, which is not of anyone’s choosing, but we all understand that’s the world we live in today. But to watch him do that and to watch that group of young ladies come together as a true team. I mean, because every night it’s somebody else that steps up and they support each other so much. I mean, it is like when you’re in this business, I mean, you love to watch the whole become greater than the sum of the parts. I mean, that’s the magic in team sports. And I’ve seen that happen in volleyball now during these last couple months. 

And hopefully this season will continue the way it has. But even what they’ve done to this point has been nothing short of really special. I mean, it’s been really special to watch them. They’ve been pushed to the limit any number of times. And we’ve been down two sets to none and come back and reverse swept a couple times against ranked teams and that just doesn’t happen. I mean, it’s been really, really fun to watch. And Holloway’s great. It’s just such an energetic environment. And then we played a couple matches in Mackey already. We’ll play Indiana in Mackey. Our young ladies played down in Bridgestone Arena against Tennessee, we’ll beat Tennessee again and in volleyball down there. We played IU in Gainbridge. They moved their home match in Gainbridge Fieldhouse and it was a great environment. And we fortunately went down and beat them also. 

So they’ve done a lot of really, really good things and it’s just been fun to watch that. And I’d be remiss if I didn’t talk a little bit. Football’s obviously having a struggle. We’re struggling this fall. That’s not news to anybody. But I will say this, I mean, the environment that Coach Odom is creating, the culture that he’s building is exactly what we need here at Purdue. He is a terrific football coach. He’s an unbelievable leader, period. I mean, I am 100% convinced that as we layer good days upon good days, and ultimately we find a way and learn how to win games instead of finding ways to lose games, which we perfected here recently, it’s going to get to be a whole lot of fun. He is going to lead us to tremendous success in the years ahead. And I am as convinced as I’ve ever been to that. And I can’t wait to see it happen because I think it’ll be done the Purdue way and it’ll be sustainable. It’ll get to a place that we’ll all be very, very proud of. 

Kate Young: 

I love that you addressed that because we met Coach Odom and had the great opportunity to interview him. He’s a genuine, amazing human. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Well, he’s a tremendous person, period. I mean, all you have to do is meet his wife Tia and his children and say, “Wow, what a family.” I mean, these are the most well put together and confident and mature young people, and that doesn’t happen without just solid, solid mom and dads, and they are just terrific people. I mean, he treats his players the same way. I mean, he demands a lot. The standard is the standard, and if you don’t meet the standard, then we’re going to work till you get there. But he has a humanity about it that I think just really is what you hope for. When you send your son or daughter to play for a coach, you want somebody that’s a real person that understands how people tick. And Coach Odom’s been at it for 26 years or thereabouts. And he knows what it’s supposed to look like. He knows how it’s supposed to be done. And I’m just really thankful that he’s here with us and I know he will take us to great places. 

Kate Young: 

I agree. I love that. I also love how you talked about some of these not as high profile sports. You hear about football and basketball and all that good stuff, volleyball, but softball, golf. I love that. And I think that’s important for our listeners to know about that too. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Absolutely. And so I was a college baseball athlete back in my days at South Bend. And back in those days, we were mediocre. I’m going to be the first to tell you, and I fit right in there. I met the standard of mediocrity as a player, but I was at a place where football is king at Notre Dame. Let’s just be honest. I mean, it was the beginning and the end of the story. And back then, men’s basketball was a pretty big deal. We were one of those other sports, but my experience mattered to me, it mattered to my teammates. And so as I’ve gotten into this world, and I also knew that that was the reason I was able to even attend Notre Dame. 

I received a college scholarship just enough, just enough of an athletic scholarship to make it work financially for my family. And so being able to pay that opportunity back to decades now of young people has been really the most meaningful thing of this career for me. I mean, I love being around competition. I love seeing young people grow and be pushed and stretched and gain confidence in doing things they never thought they could do. I’m just grateful that I had that opportunity. I want to make sure that I deliver that in as best a way as I can throughout my time here in this business. 

Kate Young: 

What would you say your proudest accomplishment has been during your time at Purdue? 

Mike Bobinski: 

A couple things. So these last couple years, we’ve been able to place our student athletes, our graduating student athletes at a remarkably high level. Three of the last four years, it’s been 100%. I mean, every one of our graduating student athletes is either going to grad school, employed in a really good job somewhere, or they’re pursuing professional opportunities in their sport. That doesn’t happen by accident. That happens because first of all, you’ve got the right young people that are focused and motivated, but we have people that from day one, from the day they get here, are talking to them about preparing for what’s next. 

So they don’t get to the end of their time here at Purdue and say, “Oh my gosh, now what?” There’s been a process. There’s been a process put in place. I’m as proud of that as anything that I could possibly be. The other part is that we haven’t lost our way at Purdue here. We still believe, and I am 100% convinced that you can do it the way that Purdue has always done it and succeed at a really high level. We wouldn’t have the preseason number one ranked men’s basketball team in the country if that wasn’t a true fact. I mean, it just wouldn’t be. And that has been done. We are an overnight success that’s been years in the making. 

Kate Young: 

I love that. Yeah. 

Mike Bobinski: 

I mean, it’s like all of a sudden people are like, “Hey, Purdue’s really good.” Hey, no kidding. We’ve been building towards this for a long time. 

Kate Young: 

Constantly good too though, yeah. 

Mike Bobinski: 

It’s been this stair step process. I really believe this, I think we’re at a point where we’re going to be there every year for as long as you can see out under the horizon, we’re going to be that team. And that has been done by the skill of Coach Painter and his staff by conscious design. It is not just, “Oh my gosh, look what happened here.” There has been a strategy and a thought in place as to how we got there. And to me, that’s the only evidence that I need that can it happen? Hell yes, it can happen. And if it’s happening in a sport that’s as nationally competitive as men’s basketball, it can happen in everything we’re doing. I really truly believe that. 

Kate Young: 

I think most people listening would agree as well. Well, speaking of basketball, lots of buzz. What do you think makes Purdue basketball so special, that leadership, how unique that program is? What is behind that? 

Mike Bobinski: 

A lot of it to me is based on the care that Matt and his staff place in selecting the young guys that are in the program that, again, fit our situation. They’re not here for their own personal glory and all. They want to win. They want to be pros in lots of cases. They want to push themselves to the very highest level athletically, but they also believe in all the other things that Purdue stands for. And Matt spends more time, I think, than any coach I’ve ever seen in trying to understand who young people are before they get here. He knows that in a smaller locker room, it’s not the 105 of football, it’s 15. If you get the wrong one or two, it can really upset the apple cart and change the dynamic in a way that can really damage your culture and affect your performance. 

It’s never perfect. You never get it 100% right, but he tries to understand it to the very best of his ability, what makes people tick. We’ve all heard a lot about it, our guys do these psychological profiles and everybody that we recruit does that. If they don’t want to do it, then we’re onto the next person because Matt just really believes that he wants to understand who they are. He wants them to understand who he is. He shares his profile with all of our players and say, “Hey, this is who I am. So if I say this to you, know where it’s coming from. This is how I’m wired.” And so to me, it’s an amazingly sophisticated approach, very thoughtful, and it’s now bleeding into other programs at Purdue, which I really love. Our wrestling program’s using it a lot. Our football’s beginning to use it and their numbers are so big. 

They’re using it for key positions and key staff members. Okay, what’s really making that person tick is we can get the very best out of them. And that’s not in a manipulative way, but just in a motivational and an effective communication means. And so it’s been really, really fun to watch that and multiple other programs are using it, but wrestling was the first one to really dive into it. And Coach Ersland will tell you that it has had a real impact on his recruiting and on his coaching style. He quickly understood… Last year we had a young man that had struggled for a few years. He never quite realized the potential that Coach Ersland saw in him when he recruited him. Once he did the psychological profile with his team, he realized that I’ve been coaching this young man the wrong way for three years. And so he changed his approach with him completely and all of a sudden he became a NCAA qualifier, finished like fifth in the country. 

Kate Young: 

Oh my gosh. 

Mike Bobinski: 

He had this amazing transformation because all of a sudden he was able to reach him in a way that resonated with that young athlete. That doesn’t happen in every case, but it can happen. And I think the more that you apply those tools and make those part of what we do here at Purdue, I think can give us an advantage. 

Kate Young: 

Beyond NIL, what else has evolved during your time here at Purdue as AD? 

Mike Bobinski: 

Literally everything. 

Kate Young: 

Social media, right? 

Mike Bobinski: 

Oh my gosh. So having been, as you were kind enough to point out in this business for over 40 years, I have seen it change so dramatically. And in these last 10 years, I think it’s been the pace of change, the rate of change has been exponential. It’s gone from a place that yeah, evolves pretty frequently and rapidly to this amazing rocket ship of adjustments. And nevermind the fact that in my time here, timing in life is everything, you get the COVID disruption, which changed a lot of things. All of a sudden we end up with students that are in school for five and six years or six and seven years. You get 24 and 25 year olds competing in college competition, which is the environment just dictated that that was at that point the decision that was made that was the right thing to do, but it did change a lot of things, this legal settlement that we’ve just entered into. 

And as I try to tell everybody, just the concept of a settlement, people need to understand, I think anybody that’s been in any kind of a legal proceeding, when you settle a case, you end up with both sides a little unhappy. Nobody gets everything they want. That’s why it’s called a settlement. You get a little of this, you give up a little of that. That’s just the way it works. So is the settlement perfect? No, it’s not perfect. But where we were headed, and unfortunately where we still have some problems is that our structure was dictated by a bunch of random judicial rulings and state legislature rulings, and that’s no way to run an enterprise of the scale of college athletics. So if this settlement can actually fully be embraced and put in place, I think it’s got a chance to really, as I mentioned earlier, become a sustainable model for at least the duration of the settlement, which right now is a 10-year injunction that we have. 

I’m very hopeful that we can live within the terms of that and have that become the way that we operate our business for these next 10 years. The other element of the settlement, and it’s a big, big change, is the ability to share revenue directly with student athletes. So we are in that world like everybody at our level, that we’re doing that to the full extent available and possible. We had to make decisions like everybody did as to where those dollars get allocated. And so we have done that. We’ve tried to be fair and supportive of really across the board with our programs. And so far, I think we’ve been pretty good, pretty effective in our strategy. 

And the positive thing that I would say is that it has not caused any locker room disruption, no jealousy about, “Well, why is Kate getting this? And I’m only getting that.” And I mean, there’s been, to my knowledge, none of that has existed at this point in time, which I think is a credit to our coaches and to our young people for understanding that, hey, the world is what the world is. Not everything is going to be purely equal as we move forward here, but we’re in that world. We’re competing at the very highest level with that. That’s a brand new environment for us to adjust to, but so far so good in my eyes. 

Kate Young: 

Purdue is known for innovation, and that extends to all areas of campus, including athletics. Mike talks about how the AI-driven innovations we’re seeing at the professional level, like the MLB Robot Empires, for example, is trickling down into collegiate athletics. Plus, he digs into some of the ways that Purdue is on the cutting edge in sports technology. 

Mike Bobinski: 

I think that’s very much a field of opportunity for us here at Purdue. So we’ve had people come in and talk to our senior staff members about AI and how we might use that, not only to create efficiencies, but to do our work better. But it’s not just a, “Hey, how can I do it quicker,” but, “How can I do it better? Can we work smarter and more effect Did we gain advantage somehow, some way?” So we’re continually looking for those opportunities. I know it’s certain folks and it’s a little bit of a generational thing. It just is. I mean, not that I’m not interested in it. I use it now and then. 

Kate Young: 

Good job. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Yeah, I’m getting there. But the younger folks in our staff, and we have a very multi-generational staff, which I love. Our younger folks, it just comes easier for them to naturally just use that as a tool to help them do their work better. The other area where we’re using technology, and again, at a place like Purdue, shame on us if we don’t, is in our sports performance area and wellness where multiple teams use monitors when they’re practicing, monitoring heart rate, oxygen levels, all those different things so that coaches can know when, “Hey, we’re pushing too hard here or our athletes are at their max. We need to back off and have a light day tomorrow.” 

So there’s a lot of data that our sports performance folks gather every day and then share with the coaches and say, “Hey,” sometimes even specifically to a specific athlete saying, “Hey, that person is right at the edge.” If we don’t want them to get injured or to start to cross over into a place where it’s diminishing returns, you need to hold them out tomorrow or give them a day off or whatever it might be. So multiple ways, sleep technology. The value of sleep for a high performance athlete is really, and really for all of us, but for the stress that our young people put on their bodies and their systems, if you don’t get a good night’s sleep, you’re really, really putting yourself at a deficit. 

And so multiple teams use monitors, whether it be the Oura Ring or the Whoop bands or whatever it might be that help them understand the quality of their sleep. And so all those different things are in place here. Nutrition-wise, I think we’re getting really, really sophisticated and good at how we feed our athletes. We have our own student athlete dining facility that opened up the summer of 24. So we’re really in our second year of that, and that has become much, much more of an asset for us. The meals are high nutrient, high protein and high performance, and everything’s labeled. And we coach our athletes as to, “Hey, when you’re at this phase of your training, this is what you should be…” More carbs, less protein, or more protein, less carb, whatever it might be, it’s way more sophisticated than just, “Hey, let me go get a burger and fries.” That’s the way it worked when I was in school. 

Kate Young: 

When you were playing baseball. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Oh my God, a slice of pizza and a hamburger, I was happy and I thought I was doing great, but no more of the case. It’s way beyond that. And I would tell you that I think we’ve got all the tools in place to support our young people in the most effective way with all of that. 

Kate Young: 

So looking into the future, 2026, what can Boilermaker fans be excited about? 

Mike Bobinski: 

I think we can be excited about a lot of things. We have a number of programs, in my opinion. They’re on that build phase of really, really good things are going to happen. I know that fall didn’t work out for our women’s soccer program the way we would’ve liked it to, but Coach Moody is extremely motivated, extremely aggressive. We have commitments or we’re going to get commitments from, I think, some really, really high profile players to build, to add to the really talented young ladies that he brought in this year. So I think that program’s going to really take off in 26. I expect volleyball to continue to be really good. Our tennis programs, we have two relatively new. 

Our men’s tennis coach is just now in his third year, Coach Young, Jeff Young doing a great job. He said in four years, we’re going to be a top 25 team and then we’re going to go from there. And he is right on track to do that. We’ve hired a brand new women’s tennis coach, Raquel Atawo, who I think is exceptional, and she’s going to do the same thing on the women’s tennis side. Little known fact, our diving program is, we’re in the top three or four of the country, if not the top two, about every year. It is an amazing hidden jewel amongst our midst here. We’ve got world champions and Olympians and all of that better- 

Kate Young: 

David Boudia. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Yeah. And David coaches our diving team right now. That’s the type of young people that we have in that program. And we’ve got an amazingly talented group on both the men’s and women’s sides right now. And I would expect that we’re going to be having CA champions and future Olympians that train here every day right now. Lots of good things. And in the spring of 26, I don’t expect. I don’t want to put that on anybody, but the possibility certainly exists that we’re going to have a really, really fun first couple months of 26 with our men’s basketball program. The ingredients are all there. Lots of things have to go your way in order to be there at the end. But does that possibility exist for us? Sure it does. There’s no reason to think otherwise or to behave otherwise, we just need to keep getting better every single day, play our best at the end of the year, and we could be down there in Indianapolis celebrating an amazing experience for us. 

Kate Young: 

Short, one hour drive away. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Wouldn’t that be something? Let’s all do everything we can to be supportive of that group and motivate them to do what they’re capable of doing. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. With donor engagement, we have the Victories and Heroes campaign this year. The goal of the campaign is largest in Purdue history to raise four billion by early 2030. What do you think as far as the athletics department and your approach to creating long-term success within athletics with this funding? 

Mike Bobinski: 

So the campaign is an exciting thing for Purdue. Every time an institution ventures into one of these, I think we all look in our areas, “Okay, how can we participate in that and do things to really move us forward?” So we have thought a lot about that. And our John Purdue Club team is incredible. They do a great job. Every year, the bar just gets raised by what we’re able to do. And that’s to the great credit of our donors and our alums and our fans and all those folks. They have been just so supportive and we’re so grateful for that. But as we look ahead with the new structure that this legal settlement has put in place, we have really the best opportunity we’ve ever had for scholarship gifts to actually truly translate into additional opportunities for certain sports. We can give scholarship support to every single person on a roster these days. We may not be able to fund that through our regular operating budget, but through donor gifts that are folks that are so inclined to support scholarship, that is a meaningful opportunity for people. 

And people respond to that or have responded to that for years, but now they can truly say, “If I give a gift of X, I can provide a scholarship opportunity for a young person’s entire career and I can know that I’ve done that, that I have changed that young person’s life.” That will be part of our campaign opportunity for sure. Other things that we’re going to look at, facilities right now are not talked about as much because of the need for NIL and revenue share and all the other things that are new for us, but facilities never go away. You can’t ever go to sleep on that front because if you do, if you just ignore the staying on the front end of that, or if you ignore keeping them current and modern and maintained properly, all of a sudden you end up with a problem that’s astronomical and you can’t manage it. So getting ahead of that, making sure that we build funds, have funds in place to be able to replace technology or to supplement our technology, our audio, our visual, the big scoreboard in Ross Aid. 

None of those things last forever. All the video elements in Mackie, they don’t last forever. We need to have funding in place to take care of that. Ross Aid, there are going to be opportunities that we’re going to want to take advantage of there to update the press box and all the suites and all the club areas in there. We’re asking people to invest significant dollars to be in those spaces. Well, they need to live up to what people are investing. And then there are other things we can do in the stadium I think that can have a revenue component to them that will be important, but you have to have the dollars in place to be able to accomplish those projects. And I think we can do all of that through the campaign. Then the last piece is really being able to just help us from an operational perspective as we’ve taken on the additional revenue sharing expense, which this year, the 25, 26 year, it’s $20.5 million. 

A brand new number that just landed on the expense side of my profit and loss statement. And that’s not nothing, that’s a lot of money. And so making sure that we have the resources in place to help us meet that year in and year out is going to be really important. And I know our donors will step up and do that. They’ve been so supportive. And just whether it be attendance, whether it be gift giving to us, I mean, they’re just everywhere. Even I’ll tell you the tournament that we’re playing in men’s basketball down in the Bahamas here, I think we have single-handedly purchased 10X the number of tickets and brought the number of people that the other three teams have. I mean, the organizers will tell you we’ve never seen anything like it. I mean, you guys will literally dominate the entire place because you’ve just brought so many more people. It’s an incredible testament to the support and that loyalty that our Purdue fans have. They’re awesome. They really are. They are the best. 

Kate Young: 

What do you think makes that Boilermaker culture and spirit so special? Because it is different. 

Mike Bobinski: 

It is different. Our people respond to certain things. I mean, I believe there’s a pride. We all want to win. You don’t get in this business if winning doesn’t matter, then you’re grossly misplaced if you don’t want to win. We all want to compete, we all want to win. But I think our people respond to teams that will fight to the end, that will play hard, that are populated by young people that they can look at it and say, “Hey, these are really solid young folks. They’re about the right things.” And that matters to Purdue people, I believe. I think I’ve seen that over my time here, time and time again. They want to feel like, “Hey, those young people represent what I think college athletics should be about.” We can never and should never lose that. It is a special thing. Never take it for granted, never take our fan support for granted. We need to re-earn that every day. And I hope we do and I hope we are, but we’re very, very grateful for it because it makes a difference. It makes a huge difference. 

Kate Young: 

It’s cool reflecting back to hear that you played athletics in college and had that scholarship impact you and now your job today, you’re changing these young people’s lives and the donors are changing their lives. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Absolutely. To me, athletics is such a special thing. Being a college student without athletics still is a great thing also. And there’s so many incredibly talented and successful young folks throughout our midst here at Purdue and like there are on many, many campuses. But when you add that element of athletics and you still have to do all the other things, but you are forced to be able to find time in your day and you have to be committed to that, if you want to be successful at a higher level. It adds an element that I think really, really gives you a leg up for the rest of your life if you take advantage of it. 

If you really embrace it and understand and appreciate what you’ve just done for your four or five years in college, that, “Hey, I’ve been able to do all this stuff and on top of it, I’ve been a great student. I’ve grown personally. I’ve been involved with all these other things.” I mean, you now walk into whatever your next situation or opportunity is and immediately should have confidence in what you are capable of doing. And I think that’s the thing that we try to instill more than anything is just belief and confidence in what you can accomplish. And if we do that, again, we’ll win a lot along the way, but we’ll also feel like, “Hey, we’ve met our obligation here. We’ve done good work to launch these young people into successful lives.” 

Kate Young: 

What is your biggest motivator right now? What inspires you? 

Mike Bobinski: 

I like to win. I like winning a lot more than losing. Let me tell you that, that inspires me most days. What inspires me is I’ve come to believe and just be convinced that what you do for other people is what gives a life value. And I think that the more that we can provide most rich and worthwhile experience to our student athletes and to have a building full, a department full of people that are there for those same reasons, the better we can do that every day. I’ve always believed this. I mean, you can get better at everything every day. Nobody has ever reached the pinnacle and just like, “Hey, I can’t get any better.” No, that is not true. You can always be better at everything that we’re doing. 

For me, it’s about pushing our people to find ways for us to do what we do better every single day. I will never stop that. I mean, till the day I stop working, whatever that might be, it’ll never be, “Hey, let’s just mail it in here for the next couple of months.” I can’t do that. I wasn’t raised that way. My mom and dad were wonderful people, but it was always, “Hey, don’t cheat yourself. There’s always more in the tank. You can always do more. You can always be better at whatever it is you’re doing.” That’s just the way I’ve always been wired. And I’d like to think that that will be something that will benefit Purdue for years to come whenever the day comes when it’s time to not be doing it anymore. 

Kate Young: 

Well, we can’t thank you enough for joining us. It was a pleasure. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Same here. Well, this is fun. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. Anything else you want to tell your faithful athletics fans out there? 

Mike Bobinski: 

Oh my gosh. Well, for me, I’ve obviously been in the business for a long time at a number of different places, lots of great places. I’ve been at some wonderful institutions, but anybody that asks me, and I mean this with my whole heart, the fact that this opportunity found me in 2016 has been the highlight of my professional career. I mean, it is such a wonderful place with so many great people, period. I mean, it just is. I mean, Purdue people are people of substance. They’re people of character. They believe in the right things. They’re competitive. They want to be successful, but in many cases, they’re self-made people that have earned it. They have worked from where they began to where they got to. That just resonates so much with me. I’m thankful for the chance to be here at Purdue and to have spent now, can’t believe I’m in my 10th year at Purdue. It has gone by so quickly, but it has been so rewarding and just such a wonderful place to be. I’m just grateful for the opportunity. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you so much. We had a blast during this interview, Mike. Thank you. 

Mike Bobinski: 

Thanks for having me. 

Kate Young: 

We are so thankful Mike joined us on This is Purdue. He’s a truly genuine leader, and it was a pleasure getting to know him and diving into all things Boilermaker athletics. You can watch our full video interview with Mike on our podcast YouTube page. YouTube.com/@ThisIsPurdue. And be sure to subscribe on YouTube and your favorite podcast platform so you don’t miss any of our spring 2026 episodes coming up. This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Thad Boone in collaboration with John Garcia, Alli Chaney, and Jonathan Hord. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. 

Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Ashvini Malshe and Sophie Ritz. And our creative production manager is Dalany Young. Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youTube.com/@ThisIsPurdue. And as always, boiler up.

Kasie Roberson: 

This is Dr. Kasie Roberson and you’re listening to This Is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you’re listening to This Is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni, taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Kasie Roberson: 

When we think about AI, and as it continues to evolve into the future, it will get bigger, it will be integrated more. And so the more we can understand how it works and how we can best use it, the better it’s going to be. And I do believe, especially when we think about Gen Z, that if we look at how do we continue to use this with an authentic voice, use it with integrity, so be honest and transparent about how we’re using it, then we’re going to use AI more responsibly. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This Is Purdue, we’re talking to Dr. Kasie Roberson. Kasie is a nationally recognized business communication expert and a clinical associate professor in the Department of Organizational Behavior and Human Resource Management, as well as head of the Center for Working Well’s Leadership Coaching Institute within Purdue’s Daniels School of Business. Kasie also received her PhD in communication from Purdue in 2005 and is a proud boilermaker. 

As an educator and mentor, she guides undergraduate and graduate students in developing foundational business communication skills, covering topics like critical thinking, emotional intelligence, and best practices for using AI as an effective communication tool. Recently, Kasie spoke about AI and how Gen Z can embrace it with curiosity and not fear at the inaugural Sunniefest in Dallas, Texas. Purdue’s presence at Sunniefest is part of a larger collaboration with Sunnie, which was announced this summer by Reese Witherspoon at Cannes Lions. 

As the exclusive education partner of Sunnie, Purdue is co-developing online curricula, encouraging continued learning for adults, and creating content that helps Gen Z explore how STEM connects their interests and future goals. So in this episode, we’re going to dive deeper with Kasie and learn how students can effectively use AI in the classroom and real world while keeping their authentic voice, values, and ideas at the center. So let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Kasie. 

Dr. Kasie, thank you so much for joining us on This Is Purdue, the official university podcast. We’ve spent a lot of time together. We were just at the first Sunniefest in Dallas, Texas, where you spoke on a panel, and we discussed a lot of different things at that conference. It’s like the curiosity around AI and not being afraid of it. We have so much to discuss today. Thank you so much for coming. 

Kasie Roberson: 

Thank you so much for having me. 

Kate Young: 

Let’s get into it. AI is in the news a lot. Lots of headlines about it right now, right? 

Kasie Roberson: 

Yes. Yes. 

Kate Young: 

So we know that younger generations, Gen Z specifically, really started using AI in school and also, though, at work in social situations. But as a professor who’s actually teaching and mentoring this generation, what do you see as far as what their relationship with AI is really like? 

Kasie Roberson: 

Thank you for that question. It’s such an important one right now. And when we think about Gen Z, we need to think about the age range of what Gen Z is. So Gen Z is ages 13 to about 28. We’re thinking latter part of junior high, all of high school, all of college, and even into early career makes up Gen Z. Gen Z is like what we call digital natives. They grew up really with smartphones and social media platforms being a part of just society. It was something normal for them. 

So when we think about how Gen Z and really all of us are really rumbling with artificial intelligence, I think it’s important to think about a couple things. And I do have some anecdotal data that I can tell you from my own experiences teaching over in the Daniels School of Business. Some of the things I’m seeing are actually really tracking with what some big research is showing. And so I’ll mention a few things. Gallup. So Gallup had a study that just came out this past spring, and it was done by the Gallup Walton Family Foundation. They did a big study looking at voices of Gen Z and then how American youth view and use artificial intelligence. 

And what I found actually is tracking some with what I see in the classroom. So I’ll just go over a few things for you here because I think it’s really interesting. First, they are talking about in their key findings that most Gen Zers say that they do use generative AI. So things like ChatGPT, or Gemini, or Copilot. So almost like 80% are using it. But something that’s interesting is that they’re saying that those tools are more likely to make them anxious than it is to make them excited or hopeful. 

Kate Young: 

Wow. 

Kasie Roberson: 

And I think that’s an interesting thing that we have to look at. I think one of the biggest issues that’s happening is that they don’t feel prepared to use the tool. And whenever you’re not prepared to do something, you’re going to get nervous. I think that’s one of the biggest things we’re seeing right now, where they are using it, they’re willing to learn it, but they want more tools to do that. And we’re doing that over in the Daniels School. We’re providing them with some of those tools. 

Kate Young: 

Tell us about some of those tools that you all are using. 

Kasie Roberson: 

I’ll tell you a little story, if that’s okay. 

Kate Young: 

Yeah. 

Kasie Roberson: 

We started back in 2021. I developed our strategic business writing course. It’s our core undergraduate business writing course that all Daniels students undergrads take. The course originally started as just a pilot course, one section, and we wanted to see how it went. I started with what I call my people-first framework. And this was, again, spring 2021 before ChatGPT and AI started to make its appearance, which that didn’t happen until November 2022, the very end of November. 

So the class started, I had this people-first framework, which I know we may talk about a little bit later. There are people-first skills, things like audience analysis, emotional intelligence, et cetera. And I knew that these people-first skills are things that students need to take into the workplace. So we started that, and then we were talking about different types of business writing and so forth. Well, the class was very popular. 

Long story short, today, this year, there are 35 sections of the course being taught across five faculty, and I do teach some of those sections. And so it’s grown substantially. My undergraduate textbook that I wrote that came out in May 2024, we’re using it. It has that people-first framework, but then it also has best practices for using artificial intelligence. 

When ChatGPT first came out at the end of November of 2022, I remember I was actually at a dinner party with some colleagues from the Daniels School of Business. Someone said, “Have you heard of ChatGPT?” And they knew I was actually under book contract and was writing a book at that time. I said, “Yes, but I haven’t had a chance to look at it.” I went home, I looked it up more. I didn’t sleep well that night. I woke up the next day, and I turned to my husband, who is also a professor at Purdue, and I said, “I need to contact my editor.” And he said, “What are you going to do?” And I said, “Well, I’m going to pivot. I’m going to talk to my editor, and I’m going to say” … Because I’d already written the first five chapters, which was this people-first framework and it’s a great foundation for anyone. 

I said, “We’re going to keep that. But then, when I move in to talk about traditional types of writing, I’m going to learn. I’m going to figure it out, see whatever research is out there, but I’m going to go into ChatGPT, and I’m going to figure out what are best practices.” I contacted my editor. We had a meeting. And so my editor at Kendall Hunt Publishing was just incredible. I said, “I think we need to have one of the first books to market to talk about best practices in AI, and I’m going to figure this out.” He said, “I love this. Let’s do this.” 

By fall 2023, less than a year after ChatGPT came out, we were already teaching best practices in the undergraduate business core writing class. And then my book came out in May 2024, and now it’s available where people and students across the country can do it and use it, but we were already putting into place some of the best tools that they could use. So that’s the story of the class. And I think the evolution of it really speaks to the boilermaker spirit of let’s be one of the first to do something. We are a flagship in so many ways, and I think we are a flagship when it comes to artificial intelligence, not only in the Daniels School with what we’re doing, but across the university. 

I’m a boilermaker myself besides being a faculty member. I graduated with my PhD from Purdue in 2005. It was in me that we have to do this. I’m so glad that we did because I know it’s making a positive impact for our students. 

Kate Young: 

With your experiences with students, you also have Gen Z children. 

Kasie Roberson: 

I do, yes. 

Kate Young: 

What are some of the questions that students have about using AI as a tool? 

Kasie Roberson: 

Yes, absolutely. So a lot of the criticisms and even some of the things the Gallup study was saying was that some of the criticisms are they’re afraid that it’s going to hinder their critical thinking. And some people have said, “Well, we can’t use artificial intelligence in the classroom because then they’re not going to know how to write.” And the same argument was actually made about the calculator when it first came out. If we use calculators, no one’s going to know how to do math. Well, we all know how to do math to some degree, right? 

Kate Young: 

To some degree. 

Kasie Roberson: 

To some degree. So when we think about this, any tool can be used for good or bad. AI, absolutely. If you just plug in what you want and just say, “Write this essay for me,” or “Write this for me,” and you don’t do any really human thinking and put any of yourself into it, then it will. It will hinder your critical thinking. And that’s not what we teach. That is not a best practice. 

In fact, what we do is we provide opportunities for our students to … When they turn in an assignment where they use AI, they turn in like a packet. And so they turn in a first draft that is their original thoughts, no AI at all. Then they have to turn in their prompt that they use to edit or revise, and we teach them prompt engineering. They turn in their prompt, they turn in a screenshot of what AI provided back. So whether it’s ChatGPT, Gemini, Copilot, whatever it is. The next thing they provide is their revision that has some of the AI incorporated, but they can’t include everything that AI gave back to them. 

And then the last thing we have them do is write a reflection on it. And the reflection is, what did they find helpful about using AI for this task? What did they not like about it? How do they envision using AI in the future for something like this? So the students, the first time I did this assignment back in the fall of 2023, I was so surprised at how critical the students were of the AI. And now I’ve seen it every semester. They find some things to be really helpful, but there are some things they don’t like, and they do not want it to take over their authentic voice, which I love that. 

And that’s something about Gen Z is that they really do care about having their voice heard, which is important because this generation, when you’re this young, you are still finding your voice. And so the fact that they don’t want to let it take over means that they’re more likely to not let it take over their critical thinking, too, which is a very good thing. 

Kate Young: 

During Kasie’s fireside chat with Gen Z AI activist and researcher, Neha Shukla, at Sunniefest, she explained the three pillars of AI. And when it comes to Gen Z, we know this generation craves authenticity. So how is Kasie teaching and mentoring younger students when it comes to using AI? And how does she guide the conversation around using it from the classroom to their future careers? 

Kasie Roberson: 

When we think about AI, I think there’s a few different things we can think about. Mindset, authenticity, and integrity are three really great ways to look at AI, but also look at your life, too. They definitely apply in lots of ways. So, mindset, when we think about, just like we talked before about how AI, because it’s new, can be a little scary for people. Whenever we think about our mindset, our mindset is something that we can choose. So we can have a growth mindset, we can have a fixed mindset. 

And so if we are thinking, “I don’t want to try something new. I just want to do what I’ve always done,” that’s more of a fixed mindset. It can keep us sometimes from really being able to pursue some of our goals if we are not willing to try new things. We can also sometimes find ourselves getting into a negative mindset, especially when we’re afraid of something. If anyone has ever thought about like, “What if this happens? What if that happens?” You immediately go negative. That negative mindset, we can flip it. What if something good happens? What if this turns out really well? 

Sometimes with AI, it’s easy to get into more of a negative fixed mindset like, “I don’t want to try this. I’m scared of it.” Especially given the fact that there’s still a lot of places in schools, whether it’s a certain classroom or K-12 education, where they’re like, “You cannot use this. You cannot use this,” because they’re still honestly grappling with how to integrate it into education. And that’s something I think that we do need to talk more about just as a society of where do we go with that. But the mindset’s important. 

So let’s try to look at it from a growth mindset, from a positive mindset, understand that there are limitations, not be blind to those, but how do we move forward in a productive way? That’s the first one. But then authenticity. We talked a little bit about that authentic voice and how important it is. I mentioned at Sunniefest that your authentic voice is like your fingerprint. And your fingerprint’s unique, it’s different, no one else has it, and that’s the same thing with your voice. And so you want to make sure that no other human intelligence and no other artificial intelligence is quieting that voice that’s yours because it’s unique, it’s special, it needs to be heard, it needs to be at the table. 

So then we also have integrity. And integrity is how do we use AI ethically? And I think the biggest thing is, let’s just be honest and transparent about how we’re using AI. If we’re doing that, then there shouldn’t be an issue. It’s not like you’re hiding something and so forth. And I think integrity really ties back into authenticity because I feel like if we’re showing up authentically, we’re going to be showing up with more integrity. 

Kate Young: 

How can adults, parents, educators, mentors, coaches, anyone who interact with children, how can they positively shape a student’s experience with AI? 

Kasie Roberson: 

I think if we go back to that growth mindset, that positive mindset, let’s look at this as a tool. It’s just another tool that we can use. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having healthy boundaries and healthy parameters around how we use AI. And I do think that we should be clear about that like, “Hey, we’re only going to use AI in this capacity.” And that’s exactly what we do in our strategic business writing classes. We’re going to use it here, here, and here, but we’re not going to use it over here because we have different learning objectives for this assignment. 

And so I think when we explain that to them, which Generation Z is a why generation, they want to know why. And I love that about them because I want to know why about a lot of things, too. And so I think it’s really healthy to just be able to say, “Here’s how we’re using it. Here’s why we’re using it this way.” And people can then buy into it because no one, and this is something I talk about in my people-first approach and framework when I talk about emotional intelligence, is that we want to look towards buy-in and not compliance. 

And so if we can get anyone to buy into something like, “Hey, we’re going to use AI this way. It’s going to help you in certain ways and so forth,” people are going to be more likely to follow those rules instead of if you just say, “You have to use it just like this, and I’m not going to explain why.” Then people, even children, are going to push back on that because there’s a universal truth about people. It’s an old communication theory, it’s a politeness theory, where people want to be valued, respected, and they want to have some autonomy. And so if we’re explaining and getting buy-in with that, then they’re going to be more successful. 

Kate Young: 

Let’s talk about your people-first approach because in your teaching, you advocate for this strongly when it comes to both communication skills and using AI as a tool. So talk a little bit about this approach. 

Kasie Roberson: 

Anyone who knows me knows that I really love my people-first approach. And it really consists of five big skills. And they are audience analysis, emotional intelligence, critical thinking and problem solving, building connection and trust, and communication ethics. They’re the first five chapters in my textbook. We walk through those, and I give actually a lot of talks on this. I call it the communicating well at work using five people-first skills. 

This resonates with every audience I talk to, whether it’s undergraduate students, it’s staff here at Purdue, it’s executive audiences at organizations where I’m doing workshops or keynotes. These really resonate with people because the hardest part of anyone’s job is usually working with other people. And so it’s not in terms of like if you’re technically trained well, you’re going to go in and, in a silo, you can do your job well. But that’s not the way most companies and organizations work. You are going to be working with other people, and there’s going to be conflict sometimes. There’s going to be miscommunication. And these five people-first skills are going to help set you up for success, and it’s going to help you to communicate well at work. 

So when we think about audience analysis. So like if you and I were going to be having a one-on-one meeting, I would go in, and I would have some talking points, but I would be thinking about not just what I want out of the conversation, but what do you want out of the conversation? So who are you? What do you care about? What’s the best way to communicate with you, et cetera? And then there’s emotional intelligence, which is the second one. And emotional intelligence is getting really curious about the emotions that you’re experiencing and thinking about them before you respond. And then also trying to understand and be empathetic about where other people are coming from when they’re communicating with you. 

And then we also have critical thinking and problem solving, which is a lot of core competencies of what you do in your job and how you communicate, building connection and trust, which has a component of authenticity, strategic thinking, et cetera. And then communication ethics, which is really about like a personal standards of ethics. So being honest, being fair, being transparent, being responsible, et cetera. 

Kate Young: 

So a lot of institutions, especially in education, are trying to develop these policies around Gen Z and Gen Alpha’s AI usage. I know you just said K through 12, they’re like, “Whoa, we don’t even want to get into that yet.” What should these organizations consider when they’re creating policies? 

Kasie Roberson: 

I do think a lot of K-12 are talking about it. They just haven’t implemented anything yet. And so I do believe Purdue is, again, a flagship for, we already have some AI policies, we’re currently building more. I’m currently serving on an AI task force in the Daniels School of Business. We’re looking at new things to recommend to the university, et cetera. It’s definitely evolving because AI is evolving. 

But I do think that in higher education, it’s important for us to pay attention to what’s happening in K-12 education because those are the students who are coming to us. And I know K-12 educators want to prepare students for the world, whether it’s education or going straight into the workforce, they want to prepare them as best they can. And I have the highest respect for K-12 educators. 

And so when we think about the K-12 education, I think there are a couple things that I dream about. I dream that as we start to develop artificial intelligence and put it into curriculum, which I think will eventually happen, I hope that we will also run a parallel path that will be connected of putting more emotional intelligence into the curriculum as well. Because if we can do a blend of that people first, that emotional intelligence, and helping people to navigate and understand their voice, their emotions, their feelings, while we’re also bringing in artificial intelligence, I think that could be a game changer in a lot of ways. I think that as K-12 educators start thinking about this more, I hope that they’ll think about both of those and how that could fit into curriculum. 

Kate Young: 

As a strategic communications expert, you also help students think through foundational skills, emotional intelligence. We talked about critical thinking, problem solving. How do you think all of those play a role, that people-first approach, when it comes to using AI? 

Kasie Roberson: 

I think that if you are using a people-first approach, then you are going to show up more authentically. You’re going to remember AI does not know the person that I’m writing this email to. Only I know … 

Kate Young: 

That’s a great point. 

Kasie Roberson: 

… this person, right? Because AI really can only work with the situation context that you give it. We think that AI knows everything, and it knows a lot, but it does not know as much as we know. We have to make sure that when we use that people-first approach that we keep in mind that AI is limited. We also have to keep in mind a couple things about AI, that AI can be wrong, just flat out wrong. 

Kate Young: 

Yup. 

Kasie Roberson: 

You cannot trust it. You have to fact-check it. You have to go and make sure, because it can hallucinate and make up things. It also can have biased information. It also can … When we think about AI, we want to make sure that we never put anything confidential into AI. If I’m writing an email to someone and maybe I want to revise it or something and polish it, and I’m trying to be more efficient because I have a lot of emails to return, I make sure that, first of all, there’s nothing confidential in here. I take out any names, I redact those, and I keep it like a basic structure. 

And then that way, you are not providing it with too much detail. So I think that it’s healthy to use in certain ways, like brainstorming, outlining, maybe revising something, but you also want to keep control of what information you’re putting into, like ChatGPT and so forth. 

Kate Young: 

I know I have personally used it. At first, I had a little bit of a negative mindset. I’m like, “I want to be true to my voice and stay creative.” But it’s very helpful for little either combining certain sentences into one thought. I’ve found that that’s very helpful, but then also, oh, can you make this email a little bit more firm in a polite, professional way, right? 

Kasie Roberson: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

But there’s so many uses for it that do make sense and it does really help, especially in a professional setting, I think. 

Kasie Roberson: 

Yes, absolutely. 

Kate Young: 

So what advice do you have for students who are curious about using AI but may not have used it yet? 

Kasie Roberson: 

If they’re brand new, just try something easy. If you want to use it for brainstorming, just pick a topic that you’re interested in, maybe you know a little bit about, and then just see. And you can test the waters with it to see like if I ask it, “What is the date next Friday?” Sometimes it gives you the wrong date. It’s not the correct day. And so I’m like, “Hmm, that’s not right.” But then it also can provide really helpful information very quickly. 

Just take something you know something a little bit about, maybe do a little brainstorm with it, or maybe take some writing again that is not confidential, nothing like intellectual property or something. When I write, I’m writing a book right now, I would never put that in ChatGPT. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a good point. Yeah. 

Kasie Roberson: 

I don’t want to know what it has to say. I am not interested in that. And so I wouldn’t put anything that you feel like I own this, but maybe put like, “Hey, I had this one paragraph and I felt like it wasn’t exactly where I wanted.” So ask it to help you to revise it, to make it maybe a little bit more concise or something like that. So I would say just play with ChatGPT a little bit to just see what it can do and where your comfort level is. And I think that would be a good start. 

Kate Young: 

Let’s dive into some of the fun things that you can do with AI. I know people we were traveling with to Dallas for Sunniefest used it to book restaurant reservations to look up things to do. You and I talked about, “Hey, I have this, this, and this in my fridge. What can I make with it?” Tell us about a couple of fun things that you can do with AI that might be outside the box. 

Kasie Roberson: 

So I can tell you a couple things. Definitely one of the ones we talked about before was, and I’ve used this recently on more than one occasion, where I have limited amount of ingredients in my fridge and in my pantry because I need to go to the grocery store. I was working from home, and I thought, “What are we going to do for dinner tonight?” And I want to do something in slow cooker so I can be productive with work. I plugged that into ChatGPT and said, “Here are these ingredients because I thought they made sense to maybe go together, but I wasn’t sure what to do.” And absolutely, it came out with three different recipes. I picked which one I wanted, and I threw it in there, and everyone was thrilled with dinner, and they were like, “What is this new recipe?” 

I mean, it impressed my teenagers, which was great. So that’s a fun thing. One thing I did over the summer … Because I don’t always keep everything in ChatGPT. I’ll erase things occasionally and so forth because I don’t want to have a whole bunch of stuff there, but I asked it to vision board with me a day in the life of what I would be doing five years from now. And I listed out some of the things that I envision for myself five years from now, and things that I want to be doing with my work and so forth as a faculty member here at Purdue. The way it approached my day, I was like, “I like this. This is good.” So I think it can help you with imagining things and looking at things in maybe a different way. And so I think it just depends on how you want to use it. 

Kate Young: 

We talked a little bit about this with the comparison of the calculator and not being able to do math. The late ’90s, early 2000s, Wikipedia, using that as a source. What are some of those common ethical questions that come up with students using AI in the classroom? 

Kasie Roberson: 

I remember the days in the early 2000s when I was a graduate student here at Purdue, and students would turn in something, and it had Wikipedia as a source. I was like, “This is not a legitimate source. You cannot use this.” When we think about AI … So the latest version of ChatGPT in particular has gotten much better at this, where now it’ll provide a link, and you can go to a primary source. And that’s something we’ve said for a long time. Wherever you get information, the best information is always a primary source, where you’re citing something exactly from where it comes from. 

Now, as we mentioned, ChatGPT can still be wrong, and if it doesn’t cite something, you should definitely be skeptical, but you want to click on that. If it provides a source, click on it, go to it, make sure that it’s correct. If you go to the primary source, then I think you’re probably going to be okay. And that’s actually one of the biggest developments that they really tried to address some of those hallucinations that are happening, but they do still exist. 

Kate Young: 

What do you think the future of AI looks like for students and younger generations overall? 

Kasie Roberson: 

AI is just going to continue to grow and get bigger and bigger, and we’re going to see it in more and more places. Of course, I look at AI from a communication lens, like how do we use it to help improve communication? And there’s lots of other people here at Purdue and other places who are looking at AI in lots of different ways, in lots of different industries. I’ll stick to my wheelhouse. 

When we think about AI and as it continues to grow, and I do believe that I felt this even in December 2022, which is why I made a pivot in my book, that I was like, “Ugh, I don’t want to write a book that’s just going to be automatically outdated.” I want it to be something that’s really helpful and impactful for students. And that’s why I’m a professor is because I care so much about helping people to develop really important skills like communication that I know can make such a difference in their life. But when we think about AI, and as it continues to evolve into the future, it will get bigger, it will be integrated more. 

And so the more we can understand how it works and how we can best use it, the better it’s going to be. And I do believe, especially when we think about Gen Z, that if we look at how do we continue to use this with an authentic voice, use it with integrity, so be honest and transparent about how we’re using it, we’re going to use AI more responsibly, and I think that that’s an important part of the future of AI. 

Kate Young: 

I love that, being honest and authentic about how you’re using it. And speaking of the future as well, you’re the head of the Leadership Coaching Institute within the Center for Working Well in the Daniels School of Business, but you all have some exciting things coming up. So I want to give you an opportunity to talk about that and tell us what the latest news is. 

Kasie Roberson: 

Thank you so much for asking about that. We’re very excited about the new Leadership Coaching Institute, which is housed in the Center for Working Well in the Daniels School of Business. The Leadership Coaching Institute, one of the things that we are so excited about that we’re going to be piloting in the spring, due to a just incredibly generous donation, is that we’re going to start to offer undergraduate executive coaching. And we’re going to start on a small scale. So we are going to be one of the first in the country to be able to offer this to undergraduate students. 

Most people, when they get executive coaching, it’s not until mid-career, and if they’re lucky. So we are going to help students start their careers with a coaching mindset. So we’ll be talking about things like communication and grit and resilience and persistence. So we’re very excited about that part of it. Also in the Leadership Coaching Institute, we are developing right now, with Executive Education that’s going to launch later this spring, an asynchronous program that’s going to look at working well and leadership topics. But then we’re also going to have a synchronous component, where once a week, because it’ll be about six weeks, in their cohort of about 40, they’ll get to meet with their faculty expert on that topic and participate in a leadership lab. 

So what’s great about this is that it will be like a small grouping of 40. It’ll be very convenient. People can do it from wherever. So if we have any boilermaker alums who want to come back and do something, they will be welcome, too. But it’s going to be something that I think is going to be really meaningful for people and we’re very excited about that. We also are currently continuing to work with companies on Working Well journeys where we develop customized programming for them and that all runs the Leadership Coaching Institute. 

So we talk about things like managing stress, burnout, motivating employees, communicating well at work, et cetera. We have a number of topics that we talk about and people have found it really impactful for them. And we, again, love helping people. And so the Leadership Coaching Institute has a lot of great things happening, and we are so grateful for all the support, really, from the Mitch Daniels School of Business on this. 

Kate Young: 

That is so exciting and congratulations. 

Kasie Roberson: 

Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you again for joining us. Is there anything else that I missed that you want to talk about when it comes to AI or anything in the future coming up for you? 

Kasie Roberson: 

I just want to say … Well, first of all, thank you so much for this opportunity. And I do want to mention just really briefly what an incredible event Sunniefest was when we went. It was so inspiring. And to be on that stage and to be able to talk about AI, to see it resonate with the young people in the audience, I think that we need to have more conversations like that and like this because when we think about AI moving into the future, just like when we think about, I think, emotional intelligence, too, there’s so much opportunity for growth and there’s so much that we can do to improve people’s lives. 

That’s why I do what I do is because I truly just want to help other people. And I know that when people develop their communication skills, it is going to make a positive difference in their lives. For me, I feel really lucky and blessed to be able to do that and to be able to do that here at Purdue in the Daniels School of Business. It’s really just an amazing opportunity, and it’s a dream come true for me. 

Kate Young: 

It was so special seeing all of the young people listening to you at the panel, and they’re so excited, and they have so many ideas. It was just a great experience. 

Kasie Roberson: 

It’s amazing. When you work with young people that were there at Sunniefest, and I’m so lucky to get to work with our students here at Purdue, the energy that is on a college campus. Because I write a lot in the summer and then I come back. I’m always ready to come back in the fall and I love the energy of when the students are on campus. And I like to walk around campus and just see the buzz. And there’s something so special about Purdue. 

And I know I’m biased because I’m an alum, too, but there’s something so special about this place and the students. And even though we are a big university, this is a place where people can find their place and find belonging. And I think that is so unique and special, and I just love being a part of that. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a theme of this podcast. So I appreciate you hitting on that. 

Kasie Roberson: 

Absolutely. 

Kate Young: 

It was so fun getting to know you, and this conversation was incredible. So thank you for coming. 

Kasie Roberson: 

Thank you so much, Kate. I really appreciate it. 

Kate Young: 

That was an incredible chat. I hope you all learned at least one thing you can take away and utilize in your own AI experiences. We have more fun clips from Sunniefest with Kasie on our This Is Purdue podcast YouTube channel. She talks about a few common misconceptions when it comes to AI and much more. Be sure to check it out. 

And if you’re interested in learning more about AI, the Sunnie and Purdue playbook from AI to IRL offers guidance and prompts on how students can use AI with confidence. We’ll link that in our show notes for you as well. This Is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Thad Boone in collaboration with Jon Garcia, Alli Chaney, and Zach Mogensen. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glozbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood and Rebecca Robinos. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Ashvini Malshe. And our creative production manager is Dalani Young. 

Thanks for listening to This Is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. And as always, boiler up.

Anthony Cawdron: 

This is Anthony Cawdron and you are listening to This Is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you’re listening to This Is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps, and inspiring others to do the same. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Your resume says a lot about you, but it’s only two-dimensional. The way people present themselves. If you look like you’re looking after your own clothes and your shoes are shined, it’s likely to tell me that you’re going to look after someone else’s assets just as well. I do start out by saying a lot of this is common sense. The problem is that sense isn’t that common any more. And it’s not rocket science, it does help rocket scientists get better jobs. 

Kate Young: 

Are you looking to brush up on a few conversation starters, etiquette tips, and holiday hosting how-tos before Thanksgiving and the rest of the holidays hit this year? Well, look no further because this episode of This Is Purdue has got you covered. This incredible conversation first aired last November, and since it’s one of our most popular episodes, we wanted to share it with you all again as the holiday season approaches. Get ready to entertain and impress your guests or crush that big interview after listening to this one. 

In this episode of This Is Purdue, we’re talking to Anthony Cawdron, Westwood event coordinator and estate manager. Westwood is the official home to Purdue’s presidents since the 1970s, and currently President Mung Chiang and his family reside in this historic home. Now, if you’ve ever had the chance to go to Westwood for an event or a dinner as either a student, alumni, or staff or faculty member, you likely know Anthony. But just in case, here’s a quick bit of background on him before we dive into this episode. 

Anthony has been at Purdue for 25 years now, but he’s originally from the UK. He’s lived all over the world and has even worked in a few European castles. He also teaches a business etiquette course here at Purdue. So from job interviews, to networking events, to holiday parties, Anthony is sharing his best etiquette tips with us. What’s a great way to spur small talk? What should you order for an interview over lunch? And what’s a polite way to leave a party? And it is not the Irish exit. Plus, during this special interview last year, Anthony made us homemade English goodies and tea, which is very fitting for his background. There’s really no better place for Anthony to tell us about his Boilermaker journey than within the walls of Westwood. Okay, so let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Anthony. 

Anthony, thank you so much for joining us today on This Is Purdue. We’re thrilled to talk to you. We have some lovely snacks and tea that are set up. Tell us a little bit about this, before we dig into Westwood and your journey, okay? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. So we have the classic English cucumber sandwiches. So the cucumbers on thin-sliced bread with no crusts. Then we have some profiteroles with some gold dust, of course. And then some macarons with poppy seeds and key lime. And then we have some homemade scones. And there’s a big- 

Kate Young: 

And you made them, right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I made them, yes. I made them this morning. But there’s a big debate on how you pronounce it. Some people say scones, some people say scones. I’m a scones side. And then when we eat them, there’s a big debate as to which you put on first, is the jam or the cream. And I’m jam first, then cream. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

That’s just the way I do it, but a lot of people are wrong. 

Kate Young: 

Well, thank you so much for having us here and for making- 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’re welcome. Thank you for coming. Yes, absolutely. 

Kate Young: 

… this lovely arrangement. We’re at Westwood. This is the home to Purdue’s presidents. You’ve been here as the estate manager and event coordinator for over 20 years. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, 24 last week. Or last month. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, my goodness. Congratulations. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

So you’re actually from the UK though, I’m sure our listeners can tell by- 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Sometimes. Everyone in England thinks I have an American accent. 

Kate Young: 

Oh. Well, we’re excited to get into your journey, like I said. This property is so beautiful. I’m sure no day is the same for you. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No, which is actually one of the good things. At 24 years, if the days were all the same, you wouldn’t be able to do it. So I think that having variety, and different events, and different things going on, and different people coming in and out, and projects that don’t involve guests as well, all of that. I’ve been keeping the outside looking good, and redoing the driveways, and all those type of things. 

Kate Young: 

Yes. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, yes. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. Tell us about your journey to West Lafayette, since we do know you’re from the UK. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

How did your experiences overseas set you up for success here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. So my father was in the Air Force, so I was a military brat, if you’d like it that way. So we moved a lot when I was growing up. We lived in Hong Kong and Singapore, then returned to England where I finished my high school. And then did catering college for two years, and then went to work in Switzerland for a year. And then came back and finished my degree at Oxford Brooks University. Then got into, almost by accident, working at Blenheim Palace. That then turned into Sutton Place, being the butler there at 21, which was a little daunting. My first guest was Prince Phillip, so it was a little overwhelming at times, but did that. And then went back in the restaurant industry. 

Then had a call from somebody who said, “Would you like to teach?” So I moved to Switzerland again and taught in a hotel school there. And then had an opportunity to do a work abroad project with Iowa State, ostensibly for a year. So I left Switzerland intending to come back and I haven’t gone back yet. So that was 34 years ago. So I think that overall, travel and just being involved in international hotels and restaurants and seeing things from that perspective is really what started me interested in the events business and catering and that type of thing. 

Kate Young: 

Anthony explains how his experiences working within the Blenheim Palace and Sutton Place in England ignited his passion for event planning and etiquette. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I think it gave me an opportunity to see exactly how things should be done and just the attention to detail, and how to look after people, and working with people from higher ranks if you like, and royalty, and all of those type of things. So I think it set me up quite well as being able to handle guests of every caliber and every background. 

Kate Young: 

As Anthony previously mentioned, he left Switzerland for a work abroad project in the US at Iowa States in Ames, Iowa. It was there that he met former Purdue President Martin Jischke and his wife Patty. Anthony discusses how being at Iowa State and meeting this couple changed the trajectory of his career. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So I was there, as I said, for a year. And then during that year, I think for the first time, people really tried to nurture me and continue my education. So it was suggested I take my Master’s degree there at Iowa State, which I did. And then the Jischke’s arrived during that period, and certainly were well aware that they needed somebody to be more involved with the events side of things because the previous president had not done as much entertaining as they wanted. So they asked me to do a couple of things just to help out to start with, and then it developed into part-time, full-time, and then eight years working with them at Iowa State. Yes, it was a wonderful opportunity. 

Kate Young: 

So how did they ask you to come to Purdue? How did you finally end up here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

It was a big debate in Ames as to whether I would or whether I wouldn’t go. And it was actually the Des Moines Register put more interest in my leaving than them. So it was will he go, won’t he go, will he go, won’t he go? So I flew here with Patty and Martin on a couple of occasions to look around and see whether liked it. So it was a pleasant surprise, so I said, “Okay, I’ll come for six months and see how it is.” So I lived in the apartment above the garage for six months and got used to being here, and decided I liked it and said I’d say, and that was, as I said, 24 years ago. 

Kate Young: 

24 years ago. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, yes. 

Kate Young: 

So tell us about your role at Westwood. I know every day is different, but what are some of your duties and responsibilities here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So basically, keeping the house looking as good as it can. I have a team of wonderful housekeepers, Sheila and Tammy, and they do a fantastic job of making sure that the house is already because you never know when the President’s Office may call and say somebody’s coming over and you can’t be just suddenly rushing around. So keeping the house ready. Then obviously, with the events, working with the President’s Office in making sure that we’re up-to-date on what’s happening, whose coming, making name tags, making place cards. And then obviously, working with chef probably once a week to see what events we have coming up. There are weeks when we have fewer events, and then there are weeks where we have lots of different things. 

Kate Young: 

Every night? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, yes. And also, during the day. I’d say that Mitch used to entertain more at breakfast time because there was no family and people getting to school, and things like that. So we did more entertaining in the mornings with him. I say the variety is what keeps it interesting, and obviously the seasons, and the things inside, outside the house as well. 

Kate Young: 

What is one of your earliest memories of Westwood? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I think the first time when, as I say, Patty and I traveled with Martin to come to see what West Lafayette was like, and I’m driving through the gates. Obviously, it’s a president’s house, like many big 10 schools in campus, and we had parking for about five cars in the driveway. And I drove in here and you’ve got almost a mile of drive. So just the setting was very, very different from what we were used to. And just a sense of a big house, and then seeing the spaces that we had to work with was wonderful because, again, the Iowa statehouse was Victorian, so it wasn’t necessarily designed or easy to use as Westwood is. Westwood is very versatile, as we’ve hosted events for eight people or 250 people, so it’s a lot of things like that. 

Can I pour you some tea? 

Kate Young: 

Yes! Oh, my gosh, please do. And we have to try one of the homemade scones. Did I say it right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You did. So this teapot is actually from the Shaw china that was given to the house back in the 1990s, and we have some pieces. Unfortunately, it’s aging so it does need some care and it’s not always leaking, but this one is not. We’re doing so far. 

Kate Young: 

It’s beautiful. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. 

Kate Young: 

Now, do you enjoy milk with your tea? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I do take milk in my tea. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. I do, too. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I’m not doing it the right way because if you put milk in first, then that’s very … 

Kate Young: 

Good to know. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And that’s where the phrase miffed comes from. MIF, milk in first, and people who put milk in first are second class. 

Kate Young: 

We’re learning all types of things on this podcast today. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

All right. We’ll give you a sandwich. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you so much. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’re very welcome. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, so fast-forward. President Jischke leaves in 2007. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

What made you want to stay here at Purdue? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

We know that Dr. Jischke was going to retire in 2007, so that was all expected. And then when Dr. Cordova and Chris Foster came here on a sightseeing trip, visit, I was obviously here and was cooking breakfast for them. And then they said, “Will you stay?” And I said, again, “Yes, we’ll give it a try.” So it’s become a hand me down thing. I think you get the house, you get him, too. 

Kate Young: 

I think they’re thrilled to have you though with the house. So what has it been like for you to experience the Midwest? Back when you lived in the UK, did you ever picture yourself where you are now? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No, I really didn’t. When I was in Switzerland, some of my students there said, “You’ll absolutely hate it. You won’t fit in, it’ll be awful and you won’t like it, and you’ll be back. You won’t even stay the year.” So I was somewhat, not worried, but trepidation I’d say. Because I called the bank in London and said, “Can I set up an account?” And they went, “Ooh, not sure. Where are you going to live?” And I said, “Iowa.” They said, “Ooh.” They said, “We think there’s a bank in Des Moines.” I said, “Well, you have to drive 20 miles to a bank, that’s not the worst thing in the world.” And then you arrive in Ames and there are multi-story hotels, a huge stadium, and massive, massive buildings. You think, “We’ll be okay.” 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

What are a few of your most significant memories from your 24 years here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Gosh. I think entertaining. We’ve had three Secretaries of State come to dinner. Madeline Albright, Colin Powell, and Condoleezza Rice, they’ve been wonderful. The Secretary of the Navy. So I think it’s guests. Laura Bush when the convocation happened for her and the two girls, so that was interesting. Especially the time constraints placed on us for that event were amazing because they wanted a three-course meal in 37 minutes. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, my goodness. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So it was very, very tight timing, but we pulled it off and everyone went away happy. So it’s the guests and the different personalities of people. 

The nice thing about Westwood is that it is, as many people call it, the front door to the university. So we have students, hosting the Reamer Club come on an annual tour, the freshman Reamers. So they come on a tour of the house so that they know when they drive the train around, what is behind those doors if people ask. And then we have faculty, so we have faculty events. We have deans tonight. We have a faculty event most months. So it’s a nice use of the house for people who are on-campus. And then obviously, alums coming back. We entertain many, many, people so I think that variety is great. 

Kate Young: 

We’ve discussed, you’ve lived through several presidents here. Do you have any fun behind-the-scenes stories, anything that would surprise our listeners maybe? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’ll have to wait for the book. No. No, I don’t. I think things just happen and in 24 years, it drifts away. I supposed the cats coming in by mistake is interesting. Suddenly, somebody comes to me and says, “Here’s a cat.” Because they live outside and keep our mouse population down. 

Kate Young: 

Oh. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

But occasionally they manage to sneak in. When the Jischke’s were here, we had a dog, so that was also a challenge at times. 

Kate Young: 

Was he or she in the way? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

She. No, she was never in the way, but she would sometimes escape from the kitchen and be in places that she wasn’t supposed to be. And also, liked to get out, and go and find the dirtiest, muddiest places to roll as dogs do. I’m trying to think of anything else? 

Obviously, the gates have been an issue when power goes out. I’d get phone calls from the president saying, “I’m stuck outside the gate,” so I would have to drive over and climb the gate in the rain, and release the hydraulics on the gate, and open the gate so that they could come in. One time we had a power outage and the president at the time was trying to pack for a trip. So we had to get the Purdue Fire Department to bring one of the fire engines, or the fire truck, sorry. I’m not in England anymore. A fire truck up here and plug it in, they ran their generator so that we could have a light in the packing area so that they could pack their suitcases. 

Kate Young: 

Wow. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Other than that, I don’t think we’ve … We’ve managed to keep it pretty sane. 

Kate Young: 

How have you seen this iconic home change over the years? We were chatting before this and there’s been all types of renovations. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. So the house has morphed from a two-bedroom cottage when it was built in 1934 into the 17,000-square-feet that it is now. When we came in 2000, the house footprint was pretty much as it is. So we’ve made some tweaks, we’ve changed some things. We added a different porch last summer. So we’ve made alterations. The house I think is pretty much at its maximum footprint now. There’s really not much more room for anything, but it works well and what was put in, especially with the big addition that the Beering’s did, has made the house incredibly functional. We have the catering kitchen and the big dining room that we can seat 104 in if we have to. It’s tight, but we can get. So it is a very workable house. I think that’s really the biggest change. People, when they drive up, they don’t realize just how much house there is at the back really. 

Kate Young: 

It’s so stately and beautiful. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

But yes, you don’t really see … When you haven’t been inside before, you haven’t seen the depth of the house. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

The day that our podcast team had the pleasure of visiting Anthony at Westwood, he and his team were setting up for a Purdue deans dinner that evening. I asked Anthony what a typical day of managing Westwood looks like when planning for an event like this. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

We usually have a fair amount of notice about when these events are happening, so obviously we know what the room’s going to look like. Depending on the table, we’ll seat the table in other occasion, but the table is fairly versatile in that we can seat up to 22 at one table, and the president seems to like that feel of everyone being at one table. 

Kate Young: 

More intimate? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Because once you separate people, if the First Lady is there, she can host one table and he can host another, but it still separates the guests. So we’ve done a lot more events with the big, long table. And I will already have talked to chef and we’ve planned the menu, and we do try and feature as much Indiana food as possible just because people like it and we’re using the student farm’s produce at the moment as well. 

So we’ve already planned the menu, so then prior to that I will give our two housekeepers, as I said, Tammy and Sheila, a list of what china we’re using. We have five different sets of china, so depending on the time of day and maybe the type of guest that are coming, we make a choice of which china pattern we’re going to use. So they’ll get that ready for me. Then I’ll put up the tables, put out the chairs, and then start laying tables. And typically, if we have a big event, then I’ll have set the tables up the day before. 

And if we’ve got flowers to be done, I’ll try and get those done and put in the cooler ahead of time. Another nice thing about Westwood is it does have a lot of garden space, so in the spring when we’re planting the gardens, we try and have things that can be cut flowers. Patty Jischke was instrumental in starting the cut flower idea so that we can harvest a lot from the gardens as long as we can. 

So getting the flowers ready, and then having everything on the tables. And then our staff arrive usually about an hour prior to the event. By that time, we’ve probably got name tags out, I’ve done place cards. So there’s that arrangement, that finalizing and getting the final bits out. So the glasses ready for the arrival drinks. And then always being ready for changes. 

Kate Young: 

Yes, pivoting. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, yes. That is the key to this game. 

Kate Young: 

So speaking of that, a lot of our listeners and viewer probably don’t know all of the behind-the-scenes details that go into event planning. It’s a lot more than one might think. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

What are some things that you’ve learned over the years when it comes to event planning and facing some challenges or having to make those pivots? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You definitely get to have a plan B, a plan C, and hopefully never have to use it, but a plan D just in case. So there’s always that backup and being ready for those changes. Even if you don’t want them to happen, just that you know that these things are going to take place. So I think that’s always the key is trying to predict the unlikeliness of things. And that does sometimes get to be a challenge when we’re doing the one long table because it fits 22, not 23. So if a 23rd guest comes, we have a real problem. We have had issues where the room has been full, so we’ve had to suddenly grab a small table from another area in the house and just throw some food and some silverware at it and say, “There we go.” 

But I think anticipating what might happen. So we’ve always got extra food, we’ve got an extra place setting sitting somewhere so that it’s as fast as we can to get it in. People’s diets. Halfway through a meal, they become vegetarian. So you, “Oh, all right, we’re going with that. Well, that’s all right. Yes, that’ll be fine.” So just adapting. 

And when I teach my classes, I always say two of the key elements to being good is adaptability and flexibility. You’ve got to read the situation, work out what’s going to make it happen, and then be ready for something not happening right. 

Kate Young: 

Beyond working at Westwood, Anthony also teaches a business etiquette course at Purdue in the White Lodging-J.W. Marriott, Jr. School of Hospitality and Tourism Management within the College of Health and Human Sciences. I asked him more about this course and what role he believes etiquette plays in modern society. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So I got into it when I was at Iowa State. A fraternity approached me and asked me if I would go in and do a presentation for a fraternity and I thought it’s a one-off. And I would say over 34 years of doing these, how many thousand times I’ve actually given the presentation. So it’s still popular, I still travel. I was in New Orleans in August giving it to a fraternity conference there. I’m speaking next week and the week after to various agronomy classes, so that’s also good. But I think it’s something that people realize they should need. Many people may have been told by an aunt or a grandmother at some point, “Do this, do this,” and they go, “Yeah, whatever.” And then they suddenly realize that perhaps that was useful and that they might find it helpful. 

My classes are usually full, which is great. So we have about 60, 65 students every semester. This is an eight-week class. I do start out by saying a lot of this is common sense. The problem is that sense isn’t that common anymore. And it’s not rocket science, but it does help rocket scientists get better jobs. I think it really, what we’re trying to do is make the students as comfortable as they could be in an environment that they’re not necessarily used to. And being with your peers all the time and eating in the dining court, eating quickly, not worrying about things, and then suddenly you’re placed in this situation where you do have silver, you do have plates, you do have glasses, and you’re being watched. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

That’s the deal. Your resume says a lot about you, but it’s only two-dimensional. When you walk in the door, and sit you down and I watch you eat, I think, “I don’t think this is going to work.” That’s why we do it. I’m pleased that professors do ask me to go to their classes and give a presentation. What they remember of it is entirely up to them. I’ve done it for the ROTC and that one is a challenge in and of itself because they meet at 6:00 in the mornings. Doing a presentation for people in uniform at 6:00 in the morning is interesting. 

Kate Young: 

Tell us some of these tips that you’re telling the students when it comes to networking. Interviews over a meal, that’s something I have always struggled with. I don’t necessarily want to be eating and worrying if I have something on my face or eating too slow, eating too fast, right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Right and that is the challenge. And that’s why they put them into that position, is they want to see can you deal with this? So one of the key things I say is when you go to a meal and if it’s somewhere that you’re not familiar with, ask people what they’d recommend. You can gain from that information whether or not these people have an appetizer course. Or if they don’t recommend any appetizers, I probably won’t be ordering an appetizer. Choosing foods that you can eat without using your hands. Choosing foods that you can eat easily while still maintaining a conversation. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So ordering something because you’re trying to show off or think, “Oh, yes, I’ll take advantage of this menu because somebody else is paying,” is generally going to backfire on you. So making wise choices at the table. Keeping pace with the rest of the table. And I do tell people if they’re hosting and the guest of honor is being bombarded with questions, it’s their job to step in and say, “Let’s all have our guest eat a little bit and somebody else talk about their research project or what they’re going to be doing this coming semester,” whatever it happens to be, so that there’s an opportunity for people to catch up. 

And the other thing is to be aware of other people’s needs. A lot of people are focused on their own little space. We do live in a selfie-ish world and it’s all about me, so they don’t think about other people. So passing things that are in front of them, seeing that somebody needs something. You’ve got a cup of coffee, the cream and sugar is next to me, “Would you like some cream and sugar? Could I pass this to you?” Or just keeping an eye on what’s going around. They may be the guest, but if they’re going to be hired by the company and they have taken and interest and said, “Can we get you some more water? Would you like another bread roll?” All of those types of things show me that you are looking outside your own comfort zone and you are willing to take care of other people. So if I do hire you, I won’t have any worries about sending you to a restaurant with our guests because I know that you can do it. 

Balancing conversation and eating. Taking time to actually take the food and then answer the question, don’t try and do both. We have a lot of weaponizing of silverware at the moment, making it look pleasant for other people. I tell students, “Put yourself in front of a camera and watch yourself eat. And if you don’t like it, this is why you’re sitting in front of a camera.” 

Kate Young: 

It’s humbling. Humbling. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So just little details like that because it can come down to the fact that you are a better ambassador of yourself at the table and that may be the key to me saying, “You get the job, you don’t.” 

Kate Young: 

I love that. It’s like if you’re attending to people’s needs, you’re going to be a team player, you’re going to care for your coworkers. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Similarly, the way people present themselves. If you look like you’re looking after your own clothes and your shoes are shined, it’s likely to tell me that you’re going to look after someone else’s assets just as well. Even though your suit may not be the newest, if it’s taken care of and it looks good, then it says to me you can take care of things. Again, little details like that. Shaking hands, making eye contact when you talk to people. Speaking clearly. Especially for introductions, people are so nervous. They speak so quickly and then you have to repeat it. And then say, “Really, slow down, slow down.” 

Kate Young: 

Slow down. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And if you have to, say it again. It’s fine. Or ask somebody their name again. We’re trying to make them as comfortable as possible and feel like their education is the starting point, but what they make out of their lives is something that they have to do. Have a wide range of topics to talk about because if all you can talk about is your school, it’s fine, but there’s a bigger world out there. 

I also tell people to do some research before you go. If your interview’s in Seattle, get the Seattle paper off the internet, read it, find out what’s going on. So that when you go there, you can talk to people who live in Seattle about things that are happening in Seattle. They feel that you have tried to integrate yourself already, rather than just assuming that everything is … I ask my students in class, “Can you name me the mayor of Lafayette?” No. “Can you name me the mayor of West Lafayette?” No. I say, “You’ve lived here for years, you have to be able to think of it. Because if you go to something here and you can do that, people are going to think you really are so distanced from reality.” 

Kate Young: 

Have you ever had students, I’m sure you have, come back to you and say- 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

“… I was in a really trick interview,” or, “Hey, I was at this networking event and I thought back to your class and what you told us?” 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I’d say that the thing I’ve had most people comment on after the fact is the ability to hold a glass, a plate, and a fork in one hand. So you’ve got your plate, your glass, and your fork, and so your right hand is still free to shake hands, and you’re able to deal with all of the food and drink in one hand. And you look sophisticated- 

Kate Young: 

Polished doing it? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… you look polished, and you can multitask and you didn’t need to write it on your resume. But I’ve had several students come back to me and say, “I was the only one who could do it.” Or, “I felt so comfortable because I knew what I was supposed to do, whereas everyone else was juggling things.” Yeah. That one’s probably the one that I get the most. 

So would you like one of these scones now? 

Kate Young: 

Yes. I’m so excited because I don’t think I’ve ever tried one with this cream. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

So tell us. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So English scones typically, and you always split them, you never cut them. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And usually, you have red jam, we call it jam, you call it jelly. We call it jam. So you take some jam and put it onto your plate. Come on. And then you have some cream. In England, you’ll probably find it’s clotted cream, which is hard to find here. Which is a heated cream, so it’s a little bit more weighty and fat content. Pass that over to you. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. Okay, so you’re not taking the knife and directly putting it on I’ve noticed. Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No. Now sometimes, when we do reception events here, chef makes wonderful scones, we will actually split them and spread them so that people don’t have to work with that. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Because again, when you’re designing food for large groups, you have to have things that are easy to eat, quick and easy to pick up. So then the key is to take a little bit of jam and put it on about a bite-sized piece of the scone. 

Kate Young: 

So not the whole thing? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

It’s so complicated being English. And then you put some cream on the top. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. And we did jam first, like you said. Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Some people will even put butter first, then jam, then cream. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a lot. The cream is insanely delicious. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Good. 

Kate Young: 

And so is the scone. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

With the scone. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, my goodness. Okay, see how I was taking both hands? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’ll see people do that as sometimes … That’s another thing I tell students. When I go around the class at the beginning of the semester, I ask them what their worst habit is. 75% of them say procrastination, which I can’t do anything about. 

Kate Young: 

It sounds like a college student. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And then the next one is fidgeting because they’re always playing with things. Probably from growing up, they were always playing with a phone or a game, or something. So sometimes that has now secured both of my hands and I’m not doing anything silly with them. Whereas if I have one hand free, people start to play with things, or they fiddle, or they play with their hair or their fingernails. 

Kate Young: 

With a job interview, it’s just such a turnoff. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, it’s distracting. So sometimes adding that extra hand just gives your hand something to do. But generally, you would only hold with one and stir in two. Stir quietly. 

Kate Young: 

In October, Anthony received the Special Boilermaker Award, which honors members of the Purdue faculty or staff who have contributed significantly to the improvement of the quality of life or the betterment of the educational experience for Purdue students. Anthony shares what this award means to him. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

It was a very, very special moment. It was quite a surprise being told I had it because I was at a meeting in Hovde, and we were leaving the meeting. And Teresa Cadwallader, who is Mung’s executive assistant, said, “Oh, could you just pop in here?” And I thought, “What is this?” So she opened the door and ta-da. So that was a big surprise. And then obviously, going down onto the field to receive it was a very special honor. It was a wonderful honor and obviously my co-recipients, we had a great time. So it was very, very special. 

I don’t know whether there’s a Bingo card of things that if you’re at Purdue this long, you get one of these. And if you get this long, you get one of these. So I was the Reamers, I was in Iron Key, MARTA Board, Hall Master, so my Bingo card’s getting full. But yes, it was a very nice honor, very nice. And I’ve had many, many messages. I’ve had 450 messages on Facebook after it was … Eric Barker, Dean Eric Barker took some really nice pictures, so they were on Facebook so a lot of people responded to that. And then I had people text me who were in the Buchanan Club saying, “Oh, yeah, three of us up here are also a Boilermaker Award recipients in the past and we’re here cheering for you. Thanks for joining our ranks,” if you like. So it was very, very, nice. 

Kate Young: 

I can tell Purdue means a lot to you. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, it does. 

Kate Young: 

Why have you stayed here this many years? Why? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I sometimes ask myself the same question, I don’t always give myself the same answer. It has worked out really well. As I say, I started out expecting to be in the US for a year and that turned into 34. I do love the variety of the US. Obviously, we’re here in the Midwest and we have our wonderful seasonal changes, which I really do enjoy. I think ti’s nice to still have winter. Having lived in Switzerland and being in the snow for three or four months a year, you miss things like that if you were in a warmer state. So I really do like the seasonal changes. Particularly, I enjoy gardening and things outside, so it’s nice to see and to be able to make changes and not that the landscape is going to be the same day in, day out as if you were in some other states to the west maybe. So it’s nice having that variety. 

The ability to travel relatively easily. I do miss public transport. I do miss European trains. But you get around here, but it is an easy place to move from and to go see different parts of the country and travel. So I think the Midwest … Many people who travel from here after they graduate go and live in metropolitan areas, but then eventually return to the Midwest because they say it’s just a better place to live and to bring up families, and things like that. The people are very warm. It’s a very accepting and very welcoming community, and I think that that’s why I ended up staying at Iowa State is that people probably said, “We’re interested in making you do something different and getting on with the Master’s degree.” 

So that also goes back to one of the things I tell students is that, yes, your degree may be in biomechanical engineering, or whatever it happens, biomedical engineering. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you are going to stay in that field. And if something comes along that says to you, “That sounds interesting, let me try that.” And say at 22, you have nothing to lose. If you don’t like it, great, you can try something else. And you can at that point probably still fit all your belongings into one vehicle, so if you need to travel, you can do it now. Because as life gets more complicated- 

Kate Young: 

You’re tied down more. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… it’s a lot harder to make those changes. And I think when I first took my first job at Blenheim Palace, I didn’t know that that would lead to this. It was a one-off three-week job for the Christmas holidays with the Duke and Duchess, and then, “Would you come back full-time?” Yes, why not? And then everything just transitioned. 

So you can never actually predict what’s going to happen next. So I think I’ve enjoyed the fact that, having worked for four presidents, each one comes with a different background, different sets of needs, different requirements, so that has … In a way, I haven’t really worked here for 24 years, I’ve worked here for 2.5, and I’ve worked here for 10, and I’ve worked here for five, and I’ve worked here for seven with each of the four different presidents. So that I think has kept things fresh. To have stayed in one place, one person, one job, routine might not have been the case. I’m not saying that people have tried to take me away from here. 

Kate Young: 

I can imagine. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Purdue may be known as the cradle of quarterbacks, but it’s also the cradle of presidents in that we’ve had three provosts go on to be wonderful presidents of big schools. Sally Mason, Randy Woodson, and Tim Sands have all made wonderful presidents in their own right and all three have asked me to go with them. 

Kate Young: 

There’s a behind-the-scenes story. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. 

Kate Young: 

What does this Boilermaker community and being part of it mean to you? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I do really like living in Lafayette, West Lafayette. I live downtown and when friends come to visit from England, particularly we’ll walk around downtown or go to a restaurant, people know you, they come up to you, they recognize you, they talk to you. I’ll sit on my porch and people will say hello or will stop and chat on the porch. So it has a very nice feel that you don’t always get in other countries because people are either too busy or they feel that they can’t talk to people because they don’t know them yet or they’re not familiar with them. So there’s a lot to the Midwest and warmth and welcoming feel. 

As you know and I know, when we travel to different states, it’s not always the same. It does feel … You feel like an outsider in some states. So the community itself is wonderful. I’ve made lots and lots of friends, either from guests coming here or from working relationships, and then alumni, and donors and people. Having traveled with Purdue as well, that’s another really good way of establishing a bond, a friendship with people that you may not normally have had a chance to meet. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. With the holiday season in full swing, we couldn’t let Anthony go without asking some burning questions when it comes to etiquette. So for our listeners who may be preparing for holiday events, whether you’re hosting or attending as a guest, Anthony shares his top advice, including avoiding the rather popular Irish exit strategy. Are you guilty of doing this a time or two? I know I am. Here’s Anthony. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

A little more tea? 

Kate Young: 

Yes, actually. It’s delicious. Thank you. So for people hosting events or maybe attending events, what is a small, thoughtful gift that you could give to the host of a dinner party, let’s say? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. The whole notion of giving gifts is changing. Gift giving, certainly in the corporate world, is now almost frowned upon because it’s a difficult gray area. One thing to remember is that the host has asked you there because you they want you there. They didn’t necessarily want you to bring anything. So there was I think, in the past, almost an obligation that people felt, that I have to take a gift, and that’s not the case. If you feel like taking something, that’s fine, the host would appreciate it, but don’t feel that you can’t go empty handed. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

The other thing to think about is particularly if the host is greeting you and you hand them this, then they’ve got to deal with it. So giving then something that they can easily say, “Oh, that’s lovely, thank you,” and put it down, and then it’s out of the way, they don’t have to … So when people bring flowers, it’s very pleasant, it’s very nice, but if they’re not already arranged or in some container, then, “Oh, I’ve got to deal with these now. Let me put them down. They should probably go in water. Oh.” If you’ve got someone, your event coordinator standing right there, yes, you can probably hand off a gift, but it makes it awkward for people. 

So particularly around the holidays, I think a small ornament or a handmade ornament, or there are lots of little arts and crafts shops here in town that sell small gestures, those are nice. Commemorative ornaments are nice. Homemade food if you’re somebody who’s very good at making chocolates or something like that, just a little gesture. If you are going to take flowers, as I say, take them already in a vase or in something that the host doesn’t have to then deal with them immediately, that they can just be placed. Also, people have probably done their own decorating, they’ve probably already got flowers on the table. They’ve probably already got most of that, so unless you know them very well and you’re just taking something that you know will fit in with the theme or the décor, it can be a little bit of a juxtaposition. 

A lot of people take bottles of wine. 

Kate Young: 

Yes, I’ve done that. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Which is fine. 

Kate Young: 

How do you feel about that? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

It’s fine. The expectation is that you take the bottle of wine and it’s really a gift, don’t expect to drink it. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

If you have a particular wine. So if you’re planning a dinner party and you were cooking and I said, “Let me bring the wine,” I would ask you what you’re making and then I would bring a wine that was appropriate. And we would both know ahead of time I would bring the wine in a way that it was ready to be served by you, but you already knew about it. So if I bring a bottle of wine and I expect you to serve it and it doesn’t go with the food that you planned or you’ve already planned your wines, again, that can be a little awkward. So if you bring it just as a gift, perfectly fine, but don’t, as I say, expect to drink it. And I’ve seen some people, awkwardly, if it hasn’t been served, take it away with them at the end. 

Kate Young: 

What? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. “Well, they didn’t drink it, so I’ll take it back.” Oh, all right. Okay. 

Kate Young: 

I think it’s awkward when they open it up and have it at this event. I was like, “Oh, no, that was a gift for you.”? But if they want to open it, I get that. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. And again, I think it requires you as a guest, if we knew each other well enough and I’d been to your house several times. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I’d say, “Oh, let me bring some of the wine that we had last time.” Or, “I know that you really like this sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand, let me bring some. If you choose to serve it, entirely your choice. But if you don’t choose it, then it’s yours for the rest, you keep it.” 

Kate Young: 

And you do not take it home. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And sometimes host’s gifts, if they’re wrapped, don’t expect that the host is going to unwrap it then. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, okay. That’s a good tip. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So sometimes, if it is a little ornament, just bringing it unadorned so that they can see it immediately so that they don’t have to then unwrap it and then thank you. They can say, “Oh, that’s pretty. That’s lovely. I’ll put it on the tree,” or something like that. 

Kate Young: 

Right, because they have enough going on. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. So you just don’t want to confuse things. And that’s why we have, at wedding and big events, a table for gifts that you can just put them on and a basket for cards if people bring them. There’s no absolute necessity to physically hand it to me. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Then you can retrieve them and then thank people later. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, small talk. Some people hate it, some people are gifted at it. What are some small talk dinner conversation starters? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

All right. So again, part of it is doing your homework. You don’t have to be the NSA, but you can do a little bit of background. The other thing that people don’t do particularly well is actively listen. So while a conversation is going on, you may have said something that didn’t then get developed into a further conversation, but I picked it up. So then when you and I are sitting somewhere I can say, “Didn’t I hear you just say that you were going to the Bahamas for Christmas? Oh, that’ll be nice.” Or, “Did you just come back from the Maldives?” And any time that you can ask people things that make them want to talk- 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… is a good way because it’s a conversation, it’s not me lecturing. It’s you listening and then adding in and back-and-forth. So having actively listened or found out some details, or that you just got a new puppy, or that I saw in the newspaper that you just received the Special Boilermaker Award, or you just became Small Business of the Year. All of those things I have stored that I can bring out and use if I need to. 

We’ve talked a lot about the change of seasons. Fall, “Is fall your favorite season?” It’s giving people an open-ended question allows them to express, and then it should also then lead to further topics of things that we can talk about. Because as I listen, I can hear that you’re someone who loves fall. Have you been to Maine or the East Coast? “Oh, actually, we were planning that next year.” Well, how are you going to do it, by train or are you going on a cruise? 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So it generates itself, but it needs someone to start the ball rolling. And people are afraid to just start a conversation because they don’t know. So it sounds mundane, but the weather is a great way to start. “Did you have trouble getting here? I saw that it was stormy in Colorado. How was your journey?” And people have then the incentive to give more information and make you feel that this is a conversation. And I sometimes equate it to a tennis match. 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

That your first topic is the serve and you send it over the net. And you hope that someone on the other side of the net will hit it back, and then you hit it back. And it’s back-and-forth, back-and-forth, and we’re adding to this conversation. 

We’ve all unfortunately been in the position where we start a conversation and then people will not. It’s, “Okay, try again. Let’s go this way. And we’re going to try that, and no, that one didn’t work. All right. Anyone else have anything interesting?” So sometimes it is difficult and some people just don’t want to engage in that. But small talk is really important because small talk leads you to big talk. 

The ability and the students on interviews, when they go, I say you won’t be spending all the time with the interviewer. You will be spending time with assistants, with other departments, other areas. And you have to be nice to all these people and you have to talk them. When you’re transitioning from this office to the HR department, we’re walking, you have to be talking. You can’t just leave it blank. Even though this person may not be the person you’re interviewing, I’m going to ask them afterwards. We’ve all seen Undercover Boss, I tell them that. I say the person that you go in to see who’s sitting behind a desk isn’t necessarily the person that you think it is. 

Kate Young: 

Or being rude to a waiter or receptionist, right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Well, especially at the CEO level, a lot of times, the dinner interview, the people are looking to see how you treat service. And if you treat them well, there’s a very good chance that you’ll treat employees lower down the totem pole than you well. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, the Irish exit. Are you familiar? The Irish goodbye maybe? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

That’s not really a goodbye, you just disappear? 

Kate Young: 

Yes, you just simply disappear. What is a polite way? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Right. 

Kate Young: 

Maybe the host is busy talking to someone else. Maybe you just want to get out of there as fast as possible. What’s a polite way to leave a party? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

If you got to the stand-up event or a reception-style event where it is a lot of mix and mingle drifting around, and you may have commitments to other things at different times, the key is to try and make sure that your host knew you came. So making not necessarily a beeline for them, but making sure that when you arrive, you see your hosts quickly so that they’re aware that you did come, even if you’re not going to stay very long. Then do a circuit through the room as best you can. And then always try, even if the host is talking to someone else as you have to leave, try and make eye contact. Just something that signals that they are, again, aware of the fact that you have left. Rather than, “I don’t know where she went, I’m not sure. She was here just now.” If you can, even if you have to slip away early, just try and make some contact with the host to say, “This is been wonderful, but I do have to dash. Let’s catch up next week.” 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Or something like that if you can. Or, “Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to say great party, thanks for having me. We’ll see you at the theater on Saturday,” or something like that. It makes them feel that it was a good idea to have you at the event even though you couldn’t stay for the full length. 

Kate Young: 

And you appreciated the invite. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’ve made an impression. So as I say, try and meet them when you first get there, and try and at least acknowledge the fact that you’ve had a good time and you’re heading out now. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. To wrap it up, the biggest dos and don’ts. What’s a top do this to impress people at an event and a top do not do this at an event? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You shouldn’t necessarily be just out to impress people. You should be doing things well, but not necessarily standing out- 

Kate Young: 

Like showboating? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… like showing off. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So keep it subtle, keep it light. I think we do find people who dominate the table. And I do tell people when you’re planning an event, think of the personalities that you’ve got. Because if you’ve got a strong personality and you’re hosting and we’re doing a long table rather than a round table as we’re at today. But if you have a long table and you’ve put somebody with a strong personality halfway down the table, that person will take over and you have no way of controlling that. If you have a strong personality, seat them next to you because you can physically rein them in if you have to because they’re right there. So again, that’s a good way of working out where you’re going to place people and who would be a good conversation group. Do these people have something in common? 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So it does that. Try not to dominate. If you realize that, “I’ve done all the talking,” or nobody’s had a chance to eat, again, try not to do that. Also, good manners can spoil good food. So listening to somebody talk and the food’s there, stop somebody. Don’t just let the food spoil. 

And that also brings up the buffet rule. That if you go to a buffet, it’s very likely that the rest of the people at the table are not immediately behind you in line. So when you get to the table, if there are three of you or more, you can start eating because those three people may not even arrive, or those two seats may be empty or unoccupied and you’ve been sitting there waiting for them to fill and your food is spoiling. So I always encourage people to use the buffet rule, three or more, start. 

Chewing with your mouth open. I don’t need to see your food. Eating noisily. Something it’s overwhelming. All right, yes. These people are automatically getting a no for the next invitation because you’re just not going to have people watch that again. Over-indulging. There may be very nice things offered to you, but you don’t have to necessarily take them all. And one thing I do tell students about events is that because, when you arrive, it’s likely hospitality is going to be offered quite quickly. Your choice of whether to take it then or not. You’re perfectly able to walk away and say, “I’ll be right back. Let me do some introductions.” Because yes, you might be able to hold a plate and a glass with one hand, but if you don’t have to, don’t do it. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So go around, make some introductions, and then circle back and get your drink. Circle back and get some food. So again, sometimes that is a test to see whether people have the ability to say, “No, I think I’ll wait.” 

Using the buffet as your own private dining space, no. Take some food and move away. You see something on the buffet you don’t like? Don’t put it back. Appetizers are not easy to eat standing up. We in hospitality love to watch people fail, that’s why we designed food like that. Things will crumble. So look at the food and say, “Can I deal with that?” 

Kate Young: 

That’s exactly what I do at weddings. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

Can I eat this? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Can I eat it neatly, cleanly, easily? Yes, go. No, I think I’ll pass. Take two bites. A whole egg roll is offered to you, yes, it would fit in in one go. Should it? No. Again, just dipping. One dip, one dip only. Not turning the carrot stick over and dipping the other end in. Taking things to a plate, to a vessel, rather than just eating them out of the bowl. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And sometimes events aren’t set up in the way that makes that easy. That you’ve got to find the plates- 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… or the plates and the napkins are in the wrong place. And you really want to get a plate, go down, and then at the last minute, pick up a napkin and a piece of silverware because you don’t need that for walking through the buffet. Just again, I think a lot of it is learned, but unfortunately we don’t see the opportunities to learn anymore. I will set a table with a tablecloth and people suddenly, “It’s so formal,” because they’re just not used to seeing tablecloths anymore. 

Sitting down before everyone else arrives, not good. Because then anyone else who arrives at the table, even if they’re on time, they feel like they’re late. So in a restaurant situation, you’re hosting, you’re waiting in the lobby, try and wait for all your guests in the lobby before you go to the table even though the restaurant wants you to sit down straightaway. If I arrive at 12:30, which is when I’m supposed to be there, and you’re already at the table and I’m the last there, I say, “Ooh, am I late?” Because it’s the psychological feeling that I didn’t make the right call. And if somebody does arrive late, get up and greet them and help them to their chair. It makes them, again, feel less self-conscious about being late. 

Kate Young: 

This is been fascinating. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you. Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

Is there anything I missed? Is there anything else you want to tell our listeners and viewers? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Gosh, no. Listen, learn, and copying in school, not a good thing. If somebody does something outside of school that looks good, do exactly the same thing. You can learn a lot by watching people. Oh, and when you split a check evenly, don’t argue. No divisions of, “Well, you had two glasses of wine, oh, plus tax.” 

Kate Young: 

That is so uncomfortable. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. You see people having this wonderful meal, great conversation, and then they’re arguing about $26 the end of it. It’s not very … That’s all I’m going to remember when I walk out, is that you were trying to short me for $2, or was it. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a great tip to end on. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you very much. It’s been wonderful. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. Oh, it’s been a pleasure. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

I’m sure you all learned at least one tip from Anthony throughout the interview as we head into the holiday season. I know I did. It was a blast revisiting this special episode and celebrating Anthony’s 25 years as a Boilermaker. If you haven’t been to Westwood, or maybe it’s been years since you’ve been there, you can check out our videos from Anthony’s interview on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. 

And speaking of the holidays, we would be so thankful for a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. All you have to do is find us on one of those platforms and tap “write a review” to share why you enjoy the show. And be sure to hit that five-star rating too, while you’re there. 

This Is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Thad Boone. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glozbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Ashvini Malshe and Sophie Ritz. And our creative production manager is Dalani Young. Thanks for listening to This Is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. And as always, boiler up.

P.J. Thompson: This is Coach PJ Thompson, and you’re listening to, this is Purdue. 

Kate Young: Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University as a Purdue alum and Indiana native. I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

P.J. Thompson: My goal when I was a freshman, when I left Purdue as a player, I wanted to leave the jersey in a better place than it was. Now I’m transitioning to this side. I tell the kids the same thing, leave the jersey in a better place. And the cool part is we’re reaching heights that we’ve never reached before. And so when you can continue to leave the jersey in a better place, that’s how you become one of the best programs in the country and I feel like we are that. 

Kate Young: In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to P.J. Thompson, Purdue men’s basketball assisting coach and proud Boilermaker alum. Coach Thompson grew up in Indianapolis and graduated from Purdue in 2018 with an organizational leadership degree. He also played basketball under head coach Matt Painter for the Boilermakers during his time at Purdue. And five years ago he returned to Purdue to join the coaching staff. Since then, he’s had quite an incredible career. We’re talking coaching, Purdue turned NBA players, Jaden Ivey and Zach Edye, being part of Purdue’s first number one national ranking and coaching for the 2024 NCAA national Championship in Arizona. Coach Thompson is diving into leadership in today’s modern world of college sports, the unique culture he’s helped to build within this Purdue basketball program and the upcoming season. After all, he’s coaching the offense for a team that enters the season as one of the leading contenders to win the national title. No pressure of course. He’s genuine, upbeat, and wow, is Purdue basketball lucky to have him. So let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Coach Thompson. Coach Thompson, thanks for joining us on, this is Purdue and coming to our studio today. 

P.J. Thompson: Yep. Thanks for having me. 

Kate Young: We are so excited. You have had so many accomplishments between when you were a player and now as an assistant coach with the Boiler ball. I want to list off some of your accomplishments to kick us off here. So during your time as a Purdue player, you were a three-year starter, you helped the team win the 2017 Big 10 Championship. Now you’re part of the coaching staff you’ve coached during a national championship. You’ve been here for Purdue’s first number one ranking. You’ve had players like Zach Edey, Braden Smith, you’ve got to coach them. So I guess our question is are you some type of a lucky charm for Purdue basketball? 

P.J. Thompson: I think I’ve been fortunate to … We talk in recruiting, it could be the right school, it could be the right coach, it could be the right system, but it’s the wrong time. I think I’ve been fortunate to be at Purdue at the right time and it’s been cool to see the evolution just because when I was a senior in high school, I think Purdue was last in the Big 10. And so when Purdue offered me the thing that stuck with me, coach Painter came to see me as a freshman. I was 14, 15 years old. And just the honesty and transparency throughout the recruiting process I committed and they had multiple point guards on the roster. I just thought it was the best place for me. And you get here and for us to get the program back to where it was when the Robbie’s of the world were here, us making the tournament was accomplishment going from last in the Big 10 to making the tournament. It’s been pretty cool man. 

Since I’ve been at Purdue, I’ve never not been a part of the NCAA tournament. People coach for 20, 30 years and they might not ever get a chance to participate in it. And so for me, being at Purdue has been awesome experience just because I’ve played or coached in nine or 10 tournaments. And so it’s been a blessing, but it’s a testament to coach Painter and his program. 

Kate Young: Did you ever expect coming in as a coach and part of this staff that you would be as successful as you all have been? 

P.J. Thompson: Yeah. For sure. I think it starts with the leadership up top. I think people, they’re just destined to win. I think Purdue was great because they were patient. I think a lot of times, and you see in sports, whether it’s the WNBA, NBA, college basketball, people don’t get the opportunity to be somewhere for 20 years. Coach Paint’s seen the highs, he’s seen the lows, but Purdue was patient and they were graceful and gave him an opportunity to learn to get better and that’s what you need. And so Coach Painter being the top, like being the guy, his leadership, so he does things the right way. He always says, “We’re going to win. We’re going to win at the highest level, but we’re not going to lose our soul in the process.” And in a time of college basketball changing and sports changing in general in collegiate sports, you got to stick to your core principles and Coach Paint’s done that and we’ve had great players. You don’t have great teams without great players. And we’ve had a lot of great players come through here to help keep Purdue where it belongs. 

Kate Young: Speaking of the whole landscape of college athletics with name, image, likeness has made a dramatic shift in the NCAA. It’s made a dramatic shift for coaches, players. You as a former player, what have you seen within the past 10 years with how NIL has changed the game? 

P.J. Thompson: Everything. You used to work as hard as you can to become a pro. And when you became a pro, whether it’s in Europe, whether it was in the NBA, that’s when you got paid. Now it’s different. These kids are getting paid in high school. Obviously Indiana, you’re not allowed to make money as a high school athlete, but kids are making money in high school. They’re doing different deals and it’s just different. And so for us, what’s worked at Purdue is keeping the main thing the main thing. You come to Purdue because you want a great education, you come to Purdue because you want to develop as a young man to becoming a man. So you can go and you’re 22, 23 years old and you can meet with Eli Lilly and they’re ready to hire you. And so for us, we’ve done a great job. 

While it’s changing, we’ve still recruited the same way. We don’t go for the most talented kids. We go for what works at Purdue. You got to value education, the family matters, you got to love basketball. But when you have that mix, you can have the success we’ve had. I think we’ve done a great job of still eyeing what works at Purdue. You got to get lucky. Like Zach Edey was 400 something ranked in the country, right? He averaged three points in high school, but he loved basketball. If it was 8:00 P.M. on a Friday night, he was watching film. He was a routine guy. He worked on his game after every practice, before every practice, on his off days. And so those guys, he becomes the two time national player of the year. But at the core, he was always a Purdue guy. And so for us, we just try to look for what we were looking for over the last 10 years, although the landscapes changed quite a bit. 

Kate Young: Speaking of family, and you can tell through social media, everyone’s going to each other’s weddings, everyone’s coming back for the alum games. You and other former players are part of the coaching staff. What do you guys do on and off the court that helps foster that mentality? 

P.J. Thompson: We’re going to Sasha’s wedding. It was cool. It’s going to be like 600 people there, but all the former players that he invited back. It is just different. We had 350 people at Coach Painter’s house during the alumni game. You saw all the fans that came. It’s a special place. And it’s not like that everywhere. And when you’re part of something, no matter how great everything is, you can take it for granted a bit. For us, we try to just stay in the process. It is a special place. You’re never going to agree with everything that goes on, whether you’re at Purdue, whether you’re at another school, whether you’re at a business. But Purdue man, it’s just different. And I think, like I said, it’s a testament to coach Painter and the people. You talk in recruiting with guys and you can’t ever forget it’s a people business. You want to be around great people. And whether it’s in the athletic department, whether it’s outside of the athletic department, Purdue has great people and it’s relationships. When we’ve had two head coaches in 40 something years, the stability. So if you want to go into this field, well it’s probably one phone call away. 

Obviously we’ve had guys that play professional basketball currently in Europe. I did. So we have guys that play in the NBA. But it’s a network and it’s a family and you don’t get the turnout we get from the alumni game if it’s not. I got all American friends. Some of my best friends, man, they were McDonald’s all Americans, they were college all Americans. They played seven, eight years pro and they don’t go back to their school in the summer. They come to Purdue and they want to be around us and I work them out. And it’s cool because Purdue is also welcoming. We’ve had people transfer from Purdue. My little brother transferred, made a mistake after three years and Coach Painter gave him an opportunity to come back and be a grad assistant and he’s going to get his master’s degree from Purdue. And you get your master’s degree from Purdue, you have a relationship with Coach Painter, now you’re in the family, you’re in the system. He’s going to live a great life because of it. And it’s just not like that everywhere. And so we’re extremely grateful just for the people that’s here in the Purdue community. 

Kate Young: You touched on in the past 45 years, coach Painter and Coach Keady have been the only Purdue basketball coaches and so many schools can’t say that. What are some of the biggest lessons that you’ve learned from their coaching styles and leadership? 

P.J. Thompson: It’s different. Coach Painter tells stories about Coach Kaedy and he was demanding, he was a great leader, but he did little things like he’ll bring them up to the office and he would say, “Did you call your mom today? Did you call your mom and say hello?” Little stuff like that. And when you’re 18 years old, you’re like, “Ah man, what’s he talking about?” But when you get older, you understand. You understand the why of things. And so for Coach Painter being somewhere for 20 years, he’s seen how college basketball has evolved from an X and O standpoint, from a recruiting standpoint. It’s ever-changing in the sport. 

And so I think you have to be able to adapt. I think kids are different now than when I played. I think Robbie and those guys, how Coach Paint coached when we played versus them, it was different. And I think when you go through things you just grow, but you got to be able to go through it first and learn, but you got to get the right people. We have the right staff. Coach Brantley played at Purdue, he’s a Purdue guy. Coach Lusk was with Coach Painter before he got to Purdue. Elliot Bloom went to school here. Nick Terruso went to school here. Sasha Stefanovic went to school here. I went to school here. Carson, Isaiah, Coach Terry. He wasn’t in the Purdue family, but Coach Painter is really close with Brad Stevens. And so how Butler used to operate, it’s how we operate. He was comfortable making that decision to bring Terry. When you have the right people in place, I think it’s going to increase your chances of doing special things. And Coach Painter’s done a great job of getting the right people from the staff and I think we’ve done a great job of evaluating. And then with that, Morgan Burke was here as the AD and he helped paint through some hard times. And then Mike Bobinski’s come and I think he’s elevated some things. 

Purdue is an innovative school. Purdue’s always trying to be better. We’re always trying to be the best. And when you have the support around you that wants you to succeed, they make it hard on us not to. But you don’t see the stability we’ve had here. And it is for a reason. Purdue is a special place and coach Painter’s continued. It’s hard to follow a Hall of Fame coach and he’s done that and he’s taken Purdue to a new level and it’s because of how great he is. He’s a Hall of Fame coach himself. I don’t think you necessarily get the love and your flowers when you’re in the midst of doing something, but I think whenever Coach Painter is done, I think people will finally understand what he’s actually been able to accomplish while being the head coach here at Purdue. 

Kate Young: How has he helped you since you started as assistant coach five years ago, develop your leadership skills? How have you evolved as a coach over the past five years? 

P.J. Thompson: He’s just a great dude. Outside of basketball he’s a great guy. You can talk to him about family, you can talk to him about your relationship. You can talk to him about any advice you need because he’s probably been through it himself. It’s not just about winning and losing and trying to get to that next contract. And I think in the business, I’ve been fortunate to see the good part of college basketball. Coaches can be car salesmen. They can manipulate things to get what they want out of the situation. And Coach isn’t about that. Little stuff, man. He buys our staff lunch every day. You don’t got to do that, but he buys our staff lunch every day because he’s a people person. Coach Paint, he’s a basketball guy. His mind is always racing about basketball, but coach just wants to sit and talk. He just wants to be a guy and be around the guys. And to see him as a coach is so different than what you thought as a player because 18 to 22. I haven’t met an 18 to 22-year-old, including myself when I was 18 to 22, we think we know everything and we think these guys are not regular people. 

And so to be on this side with him and see he’s a regular dude that he just loves you and he cares and he’s not going to do it by picking up the phone and texting you all the time. He’s not going to call you all the time, but when you need him, he’s there. I think that’s more important because lip service is easy. I can tell you anything you want to hear, but what are you going to do when I need you? There’s been multiple times seeing him on staff do things for his former players that it’ll never get out, but that’s the type of guy he is. Nor does he want it to get out, but just seeing his leadership outside of basketball, because my respect for him, I always thought when I was a player, he was one of the best to ever do it from a basketball standpoint. And now I see him in a different light. He’s more of a friend now. He’s more of a father figure. And so it’s been cool to see that evolution of coach. 

Kate Young: Absolutely. He’s so well respected. Bringing us back to NIL, we were talking a little bit before this about players staying here and loyalty and how we’ve said 18, 20-year-olds don’t always have the best judgment or they think they know everything. What does the word loyalty mean to you when it comes to basketball and how do you foster it within your players? 

P.J. Thompson: Yeah. It’s a great question. I think for us it’s doing the research prior. We don’t just bring kids in because they’re good at basketball. We do DISC personality tests. We get to know the kid inside of the kid, not necessarily the out. You can be preventative in bringing kids in by the work you do prior. Are they changing high schools? Are they going to three or four different high schools? Are they going to three to four different AU clubs? If they’re leaving those guys, they’re probably going to leave you when they get to college. And so we try to do the work before and keep getting the right kids because if you got the right kids, we know basketball, we know how to win. I think that’s been proven. It’s just getting the right kids. And throughout the changes of college basketball, our focus in getting the right kids have stayed the same and our kids focus are the same. 

And so when you talk about giving these kids at such a young age, all this money, a lot comes with that. But we’re preventative. We have people from campus police to the campus banks to NBA personnel. We have all these different people come and talk to our guys and be preventative because we don’t want something to happen and it’s on ESPN the wrong way. And now we’re trying to fix it. We want to be preventative. We want to teach them and still educate them because education is still at the forefront. We want kids to come to Purdue because they know that the Purdue education’s powerful and because we always say you’re going to be a former player a lot longer than you’re going to be a player no matter how good you are, like Zach Edey is amazing. He’s ninth pick in the draft. Jaden Ivey is the fifth pick in the draft. God willing, they’re going to live on earth as a former player longer than they are a player. 

And so you got to be able to go back and have something to rely on. And so if you’re going to two to three different colleges and these college coaches are getting a job every three to four years, who’s going to help you? Because at some point in life, everybody needs help. Coach Paint didn’t get that job because he’s great at basketball. He got that job because Coach Keady. I’m not at Purdue now because I’m great at basketball. I’m at Purdue now because of Coach Painter. And that’s just a basketball example. But at some point in life, you’re going to need help. And so when you’re loyal to people, no matter how many points you average, no matter how many assists you get, again, it’s a people business. 

You got to be able to rely on good people to help you. And I think that’s why our guys stay and they’re loyal because at the end of the day, they know they might not agree with everything I call offensively, they might not agree with everything we do in practice from a practice standpoint, but at the end of the day, it comes from a good place. All we want is to help them on and off the court be the best version of themselves. And I think a lot of times when you’re in it, you don’t really get it. But I think as you grow older, you go through different experiences in life. When life gets hard, you remember some of those lessons and so that helps you get through it and helps you move forward. 

Kate Young: Loyalty is of course a two-way street. How do you prove your end of the deal to your players? 

P.J. Thompson: It’s not just proof from what we say. We’ve taken four transfers in five years. Two of them are on this team. And that’s among the lowest in college basketball. We go in the portal out of need. We needed to become better defensively. We needed to become a better rebounding team. And so we go get the second-best rebounder in the portal. We needed to get Oscar Cluff. Dames coming off of a leg injury. He’s young. Trey Kaufman was playing out position, although he had a great year, we needed help with Liam at the four. We knew it was going to be a smaller role. We were honest with him. We were transparent in the recruiting process. But him coming to Purdue, being able to get a degree after his experiences, he’s had at his different stops, he’s still willing to come and be a part, even though it may be a smaller part because he is backing up in All American, he’s still willing to do so because of the transparency. 

And then guys on our current team, like Trey Kaufman was an All American last year. He red shirted when he got here, he got offered from North Carolina, which is a blue blood, of the best historical programs in the country. He was a highly ranked guy, but he just wasn’t ready right away. And so instead of just, ah, that kid’s not ready, let’s go get someone else we developed him. We have a plan for him. He backed up Zach Edey. A lot of kids would’ve left, but he stayed through it and now he had a heck of a year. He has the opportunity to have his jersey be in the rafters. So in 20 years when he comes back to Purdue, his Jersey’s hanging up. But he also has the opportunity to play in the NBA. And I don’t know if he would’ve had that, if he didn’t stay through it. 

Guys like Braden Smith, we’re just fair, we’re fair, we’re honest. We don’t promise people things. it’s easy to remember what you say because you tell the kids the truth. And so Braden’s hearing the same thing that Fletch is hearing. You have opportunity here. The timings right, you got to work and come get it, but the opportunity’s here for you. And so when every kid is getting that message, that’s all you want as a basketball player. As a high school kid coming in, you just want a chance. You want to know what’s going to be fair. I want to know that, okay, you’re paying me the same thing. We’re coming in, but I’m 60 spots ranked lower. Like C.J. Cox started the most games as a freshman and he was the lowest ranked guy. It’s a production business. But you have opportunities like that because we don’t promise people things and it’s all about the work and the fit. I think all those things go into why it’s a two-way street. It’s not just lip service with us. We prove it and we have the backing. We show them and we tell them. 

Kate Young: What are some of these non-negotiables that the team holds firm even in this current landscape with the NIL? What has Coach Painter done to instill that culture within the coaching staff for you all? 

P.J. Thompson: Yeah, nothing changes. We get back on the road at 3:00 AM You got class at nine. It’s your job to be in class. It’s your job to be attentive in class, pay attention. It’s your job to get your work done. It doesn’t matter how much money you make, it doesn’t matter that we’re the number one ranked team in the country. You’re here for education first. Coach tells all his recruits this, and I think it’s really cool. I think the parents get it more than the kids, but you got to have two dreams. You got to have a dream through education. You got to have a dream through basketball. Obviously he says no one’s going to be dreaming about biology, right? 

Kate Young: Maybe. 

P.J. Thompson: Yeah. Some people do. But you got to be able to understand you’re going to be a former player longer than you are a player. And so getting your degree matters. Having those connections and resources outside of the athletic department matters. You’re going to meet people on campus that aren’t athletes that you may be friends with the rest of your life. I think our non-negotiable rules are just doing the right thing, showing up every day, having a positive attitude, going to class, working hard. If you don’t come to Purdue and you don’t work on your game from a basketball standpoint, you’re going to stick out because everyone does. It’s a competitive environment. And when you’re in a competitive environment and things are relatively equal, you got to be able to do the necessary things to put yourself in position to reach your goals. You can’t say you want to be an NBA player, you want to be an all-conference player, you want to help Purdue win, but then you’re the 10th guy that wants to work out with our GAs. Your goals and your dreams has to match your work. And staying out of trouble, just keeping life simple. 

We try to tell that to our guys. When you recruit a lot of the guys, people talk about culture and stuff all the time. We don’t because when you come to Purdue, we’re not going to change for you. You’re probably going to succumb to the environment and the culture that’s already in place because that’s what’s won, that’s what’s developed people, that’s what’s graduated people. That’s what’s allowed Purdue to have arguably the most success the program’s had in a long time. For us we try to stick with that. It’s a cool store. Like Grady, they’re building something special hopefully at Notre Dame. Grady Eifert’s one of my best friends. 

I was on the road, I feel like I was driving in the mountains. I think I was in Utah. And Coach Shrewsbury, he’s a great dude. I look up to him from a basketball standpoint because when I was younger on staff and he was running the offense, and I learned so much from him, and I looked at him in that stratosphere of Paint of the basketball gods that you want to hopefully one day be able to be like. But Grady called me one day and he was like, “Yo, P, how often do you guys play open gym?” And I thought about it. I’m like, “Dude, I have no idea. Our guys play because it’s just what we do.” I don’t have to micromanage Braden Smith. I don’t have to micromanage Antoine West because. One’s a senior, one’s a freshman because they know what to do. It’s in place. It’s in place for you to come to Purdue and succeed. 

And so it was just cool because this is a program that paints half for 20 years. It’s at the mountain top and they’re trying to get there. It was cool for me and it puts things in perspective. I try to look for things to put things in perspective because when you’re in it and you’ve been at the same place for so long, you got to continue to be grateful and you got to continue to understand how special it is. And it’s hard. It’s really, really, really hard in life to not take things for granted. And he said that to me and it registers. It’s like, man, it’s pretty cool. We got it going on. We don’t have to worry about what 90% of college programs are worrying about. 

Kate Young: They’re playing because they want to play. 

P.J. Thompson: Yeah. Exactly. 

Kate Young: My mom was Grady Eifert’s, kindergarten teacher. Fort Wayne proud. 

P.J. Thompson: Wow. Good luck to your mom. 

Kate Young: When it comes to recruiting though, I know you said you don’t really have to do a lot because you already know if they have these Boilermaker traits for the most part. But are there any specific things when you’re talking to these younger high school kids that you’re specifically looking for that they will fit in with this Boilermaker mentality and culture? 

P.J. Thompson: Little things like how do they communicate, how do they receive coaching? If a coach takes them out, are they shaking hands with their teammates? Are they still engaged on the bench? If they miss five shots in a row, are they going to shoot the six? From a basketball standpoint, I think it’s easy to tell when a kid can shoot and when a kid can’t shoot. I think it’s easy to tell if a kid can be good and pick and roll in our system and if he can’t. And so for us, I think the basketball piece, for me, I think it’s easy because I know my boss, I know what he wants. I know what works at Purdue. I run our offense. I know what we’re looking for from an offensive standpoint. Obviously the pieces have to fit together, but I think it’s more so getting to know the person too. 

Like the Friday night, what are they doing? Or do they get in the gym? Do they text you back? Do they communicate Well? No one’s perfect. You’re going to have to teach them. That’s part of the gig. We got to teach them things too and we got to help them grow in areas. But I think the non-negotiable is just are they doing the right thing? Do you listen to your high school coach? Do you listen to your parents when they come on visits? I don’t think it’s magic from that standpoint. I think the basketball piece is relatively easy. For us it’s getting to know the person. 

Kate Young: Hey listeners, you can use Code THISISPURDUE for 20% off of one item at the official Purdue team store. Gear up for game day with your favorite gold and black accessories and apparel. Check out all of the new items, including the new Brianna Cannon collection at purduteamstore.com. Use code THISISPURDUE, all one word for 20% off one item. With everything that you’ve learned during your time at Purdue, what advice would you have to new coaches, even business leaders in the everyday world about building a strong culture and in an environment where things are constantly changing? 

P.J. Thompson: Just continuing to understand what does your business stand for? What are you looking for? You got to recruit the people. We’re not having 10 different conversations behind coach Painter’s back like, “Oh, we should do things this way. We should do things that way.” Whether we agree or whether we don’t agree, it’s our job to do what’s best for Purdue. And when I was younger on staff, I’ve been fortunate enough to be a J. I was picking up lunch every day. I had a different relationship with the players back then because I was here more than the coaches because as an assistant, you recruit a lot. In the last three or four weeks, I’ve been gone a ton from different states to state. And so you got to check on your guys still like the most important team and it can get lost in recruiting. But the most important team is your current team. You can’t worry about two to three years in the future. We got to worry about this year’s team because we have a special group. 

In sports you’re not going to always get to play on teams like this one. This could be some of the most fun some guys on this team ever has in their career. And I’m not talking about the guy that lowest on the totem pole. This could be Braden Smith’s best year of his life, maybe, right? It could be Trey Kaufman’s best year of his life from a team standpoint. And so we want to have an environment where. I told him in our preseason meeting, be where your feet are. Braden, you want to break the NCAA a all time assist record, but what’s your attitude going to be like if you don’t get 15 assists in the game? 

Fletcher, what’s your attitude going to be like if Omer finishes the game and you don’t and you’re a senior. Like Trey, what’s your attitude going to be like if you don’t score 20 a game? We have a special team, and so our key word that we’ve used is sacrifice. Everyone has to sacrifice. Coach Paint sacrifices every single day and he doesn’t micromanage. He allows everybody to do their job because he brings us here to do so. And I think when you’ve been somewhere for 20 years and you’ve had the experiences he’s had, I want to say it’s easier to do that. But there are coaches that aren’t like that. Because when you finally sit in that seat, I can’t know what it’s like to sit in his seat because I never have. 

Well, we’ve had Coach Lusk, he’s been a former head coach before. And so Coach Painter can relate to him because Coach Lusk is the only one that really knows what it’s like to be in that seat because it is different. And so what I’ve loved about Coach Paint’s leadership is we lost to a 16 seat. I was player of development. I was helping Terry run the offense. My job was to help teach him the offense, and I worked directly with him because of the NCAA rules. I couldn’t even be on the court. And so we lost to a 16 seed. Coach Paint decided to make a change for Purdue, and I think I was 26 years old and I’ve become the offensive coordinator. Purdue. I had the best job in the country, in my opinion as a 26-year-old, we’re number one in the country. I still think as a 29-year-old, I had the best job in the country. As a 29-year-old it was a process to get there. And Coach Paint didn’t give me the offense and he didn’t sit him office every day and shoot a thousand ideas. When we’re in the course of a game, he’s not telling me a thousand things to run. He lets me have my white board and he lets me do what I see. 

And then after we come together, we figure out what went well, we figure out what didn’t and we move on. But as a leader, you can’t micromanage. You got to trust the people you’ve put in position to do their job. And if they’re not doing their job, you got to make changes. And so I would tell for a business leader that’s not a head coach, you have to get the right people. And that’s been the theme, I feel like of this podcast. But Purdue has the right people in place outside of athletics, and I think we have the right people in place in athletics to allow Purdue as a whole to be one of the best programs colleges in the country outside of basketball. 

Kate Young: I love that. Be where your feet are. Soak it in. 

P.J. Thompson: Yeah. 

Kate Young: While you can, right? 

P.J. Thompson: Exactly. 

Kate Young: Okay, so the upcoming season, there’s a lot of buzz. 

P.J. Thompson: Yeah. 

Kate Young: I don’t know if you like talking about that, but is that a ton of pressure too? 

P.J. Thompson: I think pressure comes with it. It’s our job to win. Purdue is a place that’s won. It’s our job to win. And we understand that. I’ve been on talented teams that didn’t make a final four. I thought my team, my senior year was good enough to make a final four. Isaac Haas gets hurt. I think Jaden Ivey’s last year in college we lost to Saint Peters. I think that team should have been a final four team. We didn’t. We’re not going to just snap our fingers and we’re in the NCAA tournament. It’s a process to get there. We have to be great in the summer now we got to be great in the preseason. Now practice have started. We have to prepare. It’s not going to be perfect. We’re not going to win every game we play no matter how bad we want to. It’s our job to put ourselves in positions to have the best March in April possible but it’s no guarantee because we got Oscar Cluff and he’s a great rebounder that doesn’t mean Purdue’s going to be a great rebounder team. We still got to do the job. You still have to actively go get the rebound and you have to do it every possession. 

So it’s not magic because we have a talented team, because we have a lot of guards that can do a lot of different things, and we haven’t had that all the time in the past. That doesn’t always equate to success. You never know. Being where your feet are attacking every day and just getting better, and then you just want to put yourself in the best position. Historically, the number one seeds, they have a better chance to get to the promise lane. And so we want to continue the season to put ourselves in position to have a great ending, but it’s never perfect. I’ve been a part of teams. I’ve seen teams. We lost four seniors that year. I think that team, I was overseas playing professionally that year. I want to say they started six and four ish they were a 10th of a second from going to a final four and nobody thought that team would. And so just because this team’s talented, just because we have seniors and we have young talented players, there’s no guarantee. 

And so for us, just stay in process space. We talk about it in basketball if you go one for 12 over the course of a season, continue to take the shots that you’re going to shoot because you’ve proven to be one of the best shooters in the country, but to stay in process space, you can’t live always in the present. And so we take that from an individual standpoint and a team standpoint, and then hopefully at the end of the year we put ourselves in a good position to accomplish some of our goals. 

Kate Young: What does it mean to you in the team that the final four is in Indianapolis? 

P.J. Thompson: I’m excited. It’s cool. Since I’ve been on staff, we go to the final fours, and so obviously that one year we participated in it and it was unbelievable. It’s going to be pretty cool being in Indianapolis where some of our kids are from and being right up the street for us. But again, if the final four was in Utah, we would have the same goals to go there and win it. And so it just happens it worked out that way. Maybe stuff happens for a reason, I don’t know. But it’ll be pretty cool. I know that if we’re fortunate enough to get there, I know we’re going to have a great deal of support. We felt that last year playing Houston in Indianapolis. So I’m excited. It’s going to be great for the city. I think the city does a great job of hosting events. You saw it was cool after our season, the Pacers going on their run, the Indiana Fever, they’ve had a heck of a year despite a lot of adversity with injuries and stuff. It’s a basketball state. Midwest is a basketball place. Indiana’s arguably the best basketball state in the world. So it’ll be cool for the city and hopefully for some Purdue fans if we can do our job. 

Kate Young: So we have Daniel Jacobson, of course, Braden Smith, Fletcher Loyer, Trey Kaufman-Renn. You talked a little bit about Oscar Cluff, incredible team, people coming back, people transferring. What are you most excited about for this upcoming season? 

P.J. Thompson: Yeah. I’m just excited to just get better. We are on such a good team like this. Each person on our roster is going to win us a game at some point Aaron Fine, Sam King, their walk-ons and every single day, Jack Luzt, Slim, every single day, they work their butts off to help Purdue become better, only in hopes that we beat a team by 20 or 30 and they can hopefully get in at the end of the game and play in front of the fans. And so when you’re a part of special teams, you appreciate everybody. Because all the work that they do, it doesn’t get seen. But every single day they make Purdue better. Every single day because they don’t make the money that our guys make. They don’t have articles written about them. They’re not on cool podcasts like this, but they love Purdue and they care about making Purdue better. 

I always talk about my goal when I was a freshman, when I left Purdue as a player, I wanted to leave the jersey in a better place than it was. And now in transition to this side, I tell the kids the same thing. Leave the jersey in a better place. And the cool part is we’re reaching heights that we’ve never reached before. And so when you can continue to leave the jersey in a better place, that’s how you become one of the best programs in the country. And I feel like we are that. Over a course of a whole season, man, it’s going to be different guys. It’s not just going to be Braden, TK, Fletch as the older guys that’s been through it. It’s going to be the freshmen, it’s going to be the sophomores, it’s going to be the juniors. And so Raleighy’s been through adversity with injuries. 

Daniel’s been through adversities with injuries. Guys want to play more minutes, and we have a lot of people. They’re ready because of what they’ve gone through in the past. And so I’m just excited to see our guys man play in front of our fans. I know our fans are itching to watch us play. We’re itching to get out there and play for our fans and for the Purdue faithful. So I’m just excited to get going. You got to stay in the process. Like right now I’m so tired of practice and we just got started, so I want to play somebody else. I’m tired of playing against each other. I want to be on the same team. I’m a team guy. I think the people we have in our organization, like I talked about in our community, I think that’s all we need. I think we have a great deal of support. I think we have really good players. I think we have a great staff. I’m just excited to go to battle with them and experience a season because there’s so many different highs and lows. 

I think when people watched us play against Auburn last year or watch this play against Marquette or watch this play against Texas A&M they’re like Purdue might be in trouble. And so as a coach, we schedule hard to help us try to win a game at the end of the year, and you watch us play against High Point, you watch us play against McNeese State and then you watch us play against Houston and it makes sense. It makes sense why we did what we did to get to that point. During that process though, you got to relax and understand it’s a bigger goal at hand and it’s a process to getting where we want to go. So right now we’re in that where we just got to stay in that moment and you’re not going to win the Big 10 whatever today is. You got to just continue to take steps in the right direction. 

Kate Young: When people look back at this era of Purdue basketball, what do you hope they say about it? 

P.J. Thompson: When it’s all said and done? I just hope Paint gets the respect he deserves to be honest. I’m at Purdue and I want to stay at Purdue because I want Coach Paint to get his recognition he deserves. I’ve said as a player, I thought he was one of the best in the world at what he does. I think being on staff with him, I think he’s one of the best in the world at what he does. I want to do it for him personally because he changed my life and he gave him the opportunity and he didn’t have to and not a lot of people did. And so his belief in me is bigger than words. I don’t need Coach Paint to text me and tell me loves me. He does it with his actions. I want to do it for him, but also want to do it for the players because we’ve had so many players put on a jersey and as a coach, I’m learning every day, and a big part of the gig is recruiting, and I mentioned it before, but the most important team is your current team. 

But also with that, there’s been a lot of people that put on the jersey that in the last 45 years and prior, that deserved this feeling that we have now, but they didn’t get it. They deserved to get paid and they didn’t get it. You want to do it for Coach, and I think that’s at the forefront for me, but I want to do it for the people or guys that chose to come to Purdue. It’s so hard. It’s so many times in recruiting you get told no. But Purdue is a special place again because of the people and the players we’ve gotten. So I want to do it for them because they should feel a part of it too. 

You don’t have that turnout at the alumni game if they don’t. It’s a lot of people that when you look back, they helped us get to this point. We don’t get to this point without the players that came before us. It’s just not possible. There’s been a lot of people that continue to raise the level of Purdue basketball to give these guys this opportunity. And so along with Coach doing it for those guys, because at the end of the day when those guys come back to campus, it’s cool to see the smile on their face and to hear the stories they tell. Like Purdue, you’re four or five, six years, however long you’re here, it’s 60, 70-year-old men that come back, 50-year-old men, 40-year-old men. It seems like they’re most excited about that time in their life. 

So it’s a lot of people, the fans, I think they deserve it. Supporting the team for so long as a fan, it can drive you crazy, the ups and the downs of things. But one thing I don’t think fans understand what puts into it too. There’s not a second of the day that goes by that I don’t think about Purdue basketball, not a second. I have other relationships. I have a girlfriend. I have family that get put on the back burner because of the gig. And I think fans don’t really understand that we’re normal people too, and there’s a lot of people that want Purdue to be successful. But I think the culmination of all those things is what I want to look back and be like did it for them. 

Kate Young: Okay. We’ll wrap it up here coach. You’ve talked a ton about Coach Painter, your respect for him. You’re clearly so passionate about Purdue basketball. Is there a dream and a hope for you to maybe be a head coach one day? 

P.J. Thompson: Yeah, I think that’s the goal for me. I definitely want to be a head coach. I think I work hard to do that. I’m learning. I don’t want to make mistakes. I think people rush into things. You feel like you’re ready. You feel like you’ve gotten enough experience. I’m a big believer that everything happens for a reason. I’m here for a reason. The number one focus that I have right now is making Purdue better, it’s helping this team win. I think my individual goals will play out how they play out. I’m more focused on helping Purdue win and learning and getting better. 

I’m 29. I feel like I’m just getting started. There’s not a day that goes by where I’m not learning, asking questions. Like when Coach Paint talks, he probably thinks I’m crazy because sometimes I don’t want to even respond. I’m just taking everything in and listening and it’s really a one-way conversation, but I’m listening because I look up to him and I love him and I respect everything he’s been through to get to this point. I understand how hard it’s because I’m in it. Yeah, of course, I want to be a head coach one day. That’s obviously the goal. I think most people want to do that. I’m not different than any other assistant coach that wants to be a head coach, but it’s a stepping stone to get there. I’m in no rush to become a head coach. I want to be the best assistant coach for Purdue that I can be. And I think if I can give my best to Purdue, I think that I can help Purdue become better because I feel like I’ve done that for the last 10 years. And I don’t think statistically it’s going to show up as an assistant coach now, that’s not the goal for Brandon Brantley to get all the credit, right. He’s great at what he does. It’s not the goal for myself to get the credit. 

We do what we do to help Purdue become successful. You can’t forget about why you got in the business. I got in the business to become a head coach, but I ultimately got in the business because I’ve been around a lot of great players my whole life. I didn’t get to Purdue and just start being around great players. I’ve been around great players my whole life, and I’ve seen them be lied to. I’ve seen them be manipulated. I’ve seen them not be able to go back to their school. I’ve seen them not have relationships with their head coach, and so I got into the business because I want to help people. I want to help players become better players, but I want to help people become better men because I think the world needs better people at the forefront. You can’t forget about why you do things. That’s the truth. I really want these guys … I don’t want them to look back and be like, “Man, we were in great offense in college.” I want them to look back and be like, they were around great people that cared about them and helped them get through whatever they have coming for them in the future. So it’s a long-winded way of answering your question, but yeah, obviously I want to be a head coach one day. 

Kate Young: This has been an incredible conversation. Is there anything else you want to tell the Purdue basketball faithful all of our Boilermaker community before we end the interview today? 

P.J. Thompson: Just, thank you. Thank you. It’s not magic. People showing up and having 89 straight sellouts, like I’ve mentioned. I feel like I’ve said it a thousand times, but Purdue people are really great people. They fill up the stands, they support our team. We’re very thankful for that. There’s not a lot of people that can run out to a sold out arena every time they step on the court, whether they’re playing an exhibition game or whether they’re playing for a Big 10 Championship. And so for us, man, we’re just grateful and thankful of the support. You don’t take it for granted going to a restaurant and people just wanting to shake your hand or take a picture or just say hello to you. That doesn’t ever get boring for me. I’ll never tell somebody no, because it’s not like that everywhere. And so these people invest in us just as much as we invest in the game. 

I’m just thankful for the support of the Purdue community. It’s continued to reach levels that are unimaginable. I was playing in Europe. I was in Denmark. It’s a small country. It’s a very average basketball league, and I’m warming up, and I see … I had it on my Instagram for a while. But I see a dad and two kids in Purdue gear. And I’m like, “What in the heck is going on?” And the game was played, and the first thing, I couldn’t even shake the opponent’s hands and the coach’s hands. I just went up to them and I’m just like, “Wow. What are you guys doing here?” And they were there for me. I’m in Denmark, man. So that stuff you can’t take for granted. I’ve been to China to play basketball. I’ve been to Taipei and to see Purdue Jerseys and to see Purdue fans in different parts of the world, man, that’s unheard of. Purdue is just different. And you don’t really understand it until you get to experience it. And when you try to tell people that, it sounds like you’re a car salesman like every other coach in America, but it’s really not. Purdue is special because of the people. And so I would just say thank you. 

Kate Young: That gives me goosebumps. That’s incredible. Well, we can’t thank you enough for your time, coach, and best of luck this season. 

P.J. Thompson: Thank you. 

Kate Young: Wow. Our whole team loved getting to know P.J. And as I said earlier, Purdue Athletics is incredibly lucky to have a leader like him. If you want to watch more videos featuring P.J. in our Purdue Brand Studio podcast studio, you can head over to our podcast, YouTube channel youtube.com/@thisispurdue. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Thad Boone, in collaboration with Jon Garcia and Alli Chaney. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast, YouTube Promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. And our creative production manager is Dalani Young. 

Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/thisispurdue. And as always, boiler up.

Allie Gabriel: 

This is Allie Gabriel, and you’re listening to, this is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators, who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni, taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. Working 

Allie Gabriel: 

Well to me means thriving at work and at home because I truly believe you cannot be well if you are suffering at work or suffering at home because these worlds are not as separate as we want them to be. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Allie Gabriel, the Thomas J. Howitt Chair in Management in the Mitch Daniels School of Business and Faculty Director of Purdue University’s Center for Working Well. Allie is an award-winning advocate for mental health and well-being in the workplace within Purdue’s Daniels School of Business. And she leads timely research efforts to understand how employees can thrive at work both in person and virtually. As part of this, she leads the Center for Working Well, which is at the forefront of various challenges facing modern workforces. Allie’s research and findings have been featured globally in publications like the Harvard Business Review and on outlets like CNBC and Forbes, and she recently added another accolade to her impressive resume when she was named a fellow of the American Psychological Association in recognition of her contributions in the field of psychology this summer. 

Today we’re diving into so much with Allie. We’re talking about managing stress and burnout, ways you can improve your work-life balance and emotional regulation, tips on becoming a better workplace leader, how to support working parents, and a phenomenon called Zoom fatigue. That’s right, Allie’s research on this shows there’s a reason behind why remote workers are exhausted after being on back-to-back on-camera meetings daily. So let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Allie. 

We are so excited to have you. Allie, welcome to This is Purdue. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Thank you for having me. 

Kate Young: 

We’re excited to get into all the things, work well-being mental health. We’re thrilled to dive into your impactful work here. So let’s start at the beginning. What would you say the state of mental health is right now in today’s world? 

Allie Gabriel: 

Yeah, that’s a big question to start with because I feel like everybody wants this magic bullet of an answer of, “You just need to do this one thing and it’s all going to be better.” So, a couple of things right away. I think the state of mental health and well-being is just in a rough spot. We are inundated with all sorts of stressors, whether it’s stress at work, stress at home, the news coverage is stressful. We’re just kind of inundated all of the time with information that might feel personally relevant, personally impactful. And the reality is our brains are not programmed to handle that much information. You might have that feeling of information overload where you’re like, “Wow, I’m just processing a lot.” And so I think right now there’s just so much uncertainty. There’s a lot of information coming at people and folks are struggling, and I think what they’re struggling with is how to turn it off, how to step away from work, how to prioritize recovery, how to not feel guilty about prioritizing recovery. 

And so when I am thinking about this for myself or talking to people, a lot of folks are saying, “It feels like I am just going, going, going, going, going, and I’m looking for an off ramp and I don’t know how to find it.” And I think people want this magical answer of, what one of the terms I actually like the least is work-life balance. I think that sets people up for failure of thinking it’s work and whatever your non-work life is, and they’re just going to be equal in this total equilibrium state. And that’s just not how it works. Things are off kilter all the time. And so I like to tell people, “Okay, let’s not think about balance. Let’s think about the things that you value and how we can weight those depending on different seasons that we’re in.” Some seasons, work can be really important. You can sync to that. Some seasons your life, like a non-work life is going to be really important. Let’s sync into that. Sometimes it’s your community, whatever that is for you. 

So, yeah, I just think there’s a lot going on right now. I think people are craving balance. They want it and it’s just hard because it is a constant moving target. It’s a constant work in progress. 

Kate Young: 

A lot I think is there are good days and bad days, so when you have a really bad day, you at least for me, I can wake up and reset again at least. And so I liked how you said you’re way out, what’s important to you, but also knowing that there’s going to be rougher days than others, right? 

Allie Gabriel: 

There are. And our brains play a lot of tricks on us and our brains are wired to remember the bad stuff. So if you think about the day you had yesterday and I asked you, “Think about something that was really salient that happened to you,” the odds are pretty high that you’d be like, “Well, it was going pretty good, but this really stressful thing happened. I had this interaction, I had this email I didn’t like.” And that might overweight the plethora of good things that happened, that you had a great coffee date, that you had a great phone call, you had an outreach that you were really excited about, you had a great yoga class. So our brain, oh, going gym, I’m and ruminating on the negative things. And so we really need to make a concerted effort to rewire that and to say, “No, actually on a given day, things are pretty good sometimes,” and let’s think about that and reset off of that versus just ruminating and thinking about the most stressful things that are happening to us. 

Kate Young: 

So what are some of the common signs of burnout? How do you identify it and kind of course correct and pivot from there? 

Allie Gabriel: 

So the running joke in our field is that we tend to study the things that we’re not very good at. So I study things like burnout and well-being and recovery because this is something that I’ve struggled with too over the years. And when it comes to noticing burnout, I think it creeps in very gradually. And if we don’t notice it, it can really spiral out of control. So sometimes it’s just feeling for a lot of people, it just starts feeling really exhausted. Like, “I feel mentally fatigued. I feel like I’m having a really hard time focusing. I used to be able to concentrate and really immerse myself in my work, and now my brain feels unfocused. It feels distracted. I’m starting to feel really disconnected from things I really liked doing before I don’t feel as identified.” And all of these little signs start to give you cues, okay, something is wrong. 

And it starts as just daily emotional exhaustion. It starts as daily disconnect from the things that we used to care about. And over time that keeps compounding. So if you don’t go ahead and realize like, “Hey, I’ve got to take a step back. Or your body can also physiologically respond to this, you get headaches, you get eye strain. If for me personally, I know I’m starting to get really burned out and stressed when I get this knot in my shoulder, it’s always on my left side. And it’s like this telltale sign like, “Hey, you’re going way too hard. You’re carrying tension, you’re carrying stress. You’ve got to start letting it go.” And so I think for a long time there was this sense that burnout was this badge of honor. I call it the suffering Olympics. We all for a long time, were like, “Oh, we should get a gold medal in suffering. Are you burned out? I’m more burned out than you.” 

And this used to be how we all talked about it, and now there’s more of an awareness of, “Wait a second, burnout is a problem. It’s going to affect every aspect of how your body functions, how your mind functions. And so looking for those little cues of, “Hey, I’m not really focused anymore, having a hard time concentrating. I feel really mentally fatigued. I don’t feel sharp.” Those are cues that, hey, burnout is starting to creep in and we need to put a stop to it as much as possible and find the source, figure out where it is. It could be the type of project you’re working on, it could be your whole job. That’s a rough day if it’s your whole job, because then we have to have a bigger conversation of how you fix that. It could be a particular person that you’re having a difficult time interacting with and maybe you need to recalibrate a relationship. But I just think even from a young age, we’re just kind of programmed to not pay attention to these things or to push through, keep pushing, keep pushing, and eventually it’ll go away and it just kind of compounds to a point where it gets pretty problematic. 

Kate Young: 

Allie dives into some real life examples and practical tips from her research on how to address burnout head on. 

Allie Gabriel: 

If it’s your boss, for instance, or a coworker you’re closely intertwined with, you can’t just go to your boss and be like, “Hey, you’re burning me out. Can you stop?” We need to rethink this. And we have had people in our research, for instance, say like, “Hey, I did realize it was my boss or it was this project team and that was my cue that I needed to find a new job. That was actually a point where I realized I needed to choose a career, a profession that really suited me and my well-being.” That is a really extreme example. It’s costly. That is finding a job. I’ve done it a couple of times. It’s exhausting, it’s stressful. So that’s a really big correction. But I think there are ways that you can then put boundaries around relationships to try to say, “Okay, these interactions may be stressful. So what can I do before the interaction is about to begin? I’m going to take five minutes and really ground myself. Afterwards, I’m going to go for a walk.” 

I joke that after really stressful meetings or really draining moments, I’ll take an emotional lap is what I call it. And I quite literally will go put my headphones on, take a walk out on our beautiful campus and just really recalibrate and reset. So if you know you’re about to walk into one of those interactions, building time for recovery and wellbeing around that is really important. You can also think about reframing it, saying, “Hey, not my favorite interaction I’m about to go through.” Or, “Hey, I’m about to be with a really, really tricky coworker. They might be going through a hard time too.” 

So maybe they’re being really tough on me and I’m struggling with that. Or maybe we just don’t see eye to eye. That’s okay. It’s not my job to necessarily be best friends and get along with everybody, but give somebody a little bit of grace realizing like, Hey, you don’t really know what they’re going through. They could be going through a lot on their own that could be feeding into some of the problematic behaviors, your experiences you’re having. And so I think recognizing too, just some of the humanness of other people sometimes can help if you are experiencing a lot of burnout. 

Kate Young: 

Chances are you’ve experienced those seasons in your lives where personal burnout is impacting your professional career. Allie shares more about trying to achieve success on your own terms when it comes to our personal and professional lives. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Really think about what success means to you in both domains and realize that you don’t have to strive to do everything at once. So I think that’s something I struggle with. In my research, I speak to a lot of working mothers who are high achieving amazing women, and they will just talk about being totally humbled by motherhood and the fact that they have had to recalibrate expectations and realize, “Okay, doing it all is setting me up to burn out, so I want to do it smarter. I want to think about what does it mean to be successful at work right now. That means showing up as my best self, putting in a lot of effort, building good relationships and clocking out, and then I get to go home. And what does it mean to be successful at home? It means being at the dinner table with everybody. It means making it to swim practice. Today, it means I’m making it to gymnastics for my five-year-old,” right? 

And so I think really taking some time, and I’ve done this a few times where I say, what is it that I’m looking for right now and what are the goals I have and how can I stagger them in a way that it feels like I’m not missing out on something? Really what happens is it feels like if we prioritize a goal at home with family and with friends with your community, that it has to take away from a goal at work. And I don’t think it does, but what it might mean is just realizing, “Hey, this is not the time for this big community role that I really, really want because I’ve got this exciting thing going on at work, so let me see where that takes me,” and that will take you somewhere. And then you get the opportunity to say, “Okay, now I want to pivot and I want to think about this goal over here.” So rather than thinking, “I just got to do it all at once,” because that’s also the recipe for burning out. Because then you’re never going to stop. Then that means you just have no off. There’s no off ramp to anything, and that’s a pretty exhausting place to be. 

Kate Young: 

I think we all after the pandemic are familiar with Zoom, unfortunately, or fortunately. 

Allie Gabriel: 

We all thought it was going to be gone by now. There was a funny moment where in tweet we’re like, “This is just temporary.” 

Kate Young: 

“It’s a blip.” 

Allie Gabriel: 

It’s not. 

Kate Young: 

A lot of podcasts are recorded on Zoom still. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

But your research identified a phenomenon called Zoom fatigue. Tell us more about that. What does it mean for people and for organizations? 

Allie Gabriel: 

This is a project I never thought I would do because one, I didn’t think there’d be a pandemic and wouldn’t have to do it, but I was coming off of my maternity leave with my first kiddo, like a true pandemic baby, and one of my really close colleagues and friends in the field, Kristin Shockley, who’s at Auburn University, reached out to me and was like, so I’ve been thinking about studying Zoom fatigue. People just seem really exhausted being on camera all the time. And I was like, “Sure.” One of my favorite people to work with. So I was like, of course. Let’s see what we have here. And we had a company who was largely a remote workforce already before COVID. They allowed us to come in and study their employees for a month and manipulate who was taking all of their video calls on camera and who was taking them off of camera. Because what Zoom fatigue is, is that feeling of exhaustion, about having to essentially turn your camera on and be present and ready to engage in a video meeting. 

And there’s lots of components that might go into that. You are trying to get your space ready. A lot of us didn’t have at the beginning of the pandemic curated home offices that were beautiful and lovely. It could be physically getting ready, feeling like you’re put together enough to be on camera. It could be keeping your pets or your kids. There was that classic news episode- 

Kate Young: 

Yes, yes. When the baby bust in. 

Allie Gabriel: 

… of the guy who the baby bust in, and the poor mother’s like in the back, like, “Oh my goodness!” So Zoom fatigue is kind of the mental load of being on camera and having to deal with all those things. What we found with this set of employees was that the days that they were on camera, they reported feeling more fatigued on a day-to-day basis, and that then contributed to other problems, right? Because what’s the reason why people want cameras on? Because they want to know you’re paying attention. But what we found is when people felt that Zoom fatigue, they reported being less engaged that day, they also were less inclined to really be proactive and speak up. We found these effects were more pronounced for women. And if you think about when we were studying this, it was when there was still a lot of daycare closures and school closures, and so there are pressures associated with that, with caregiving roles. It was also more stressful for newcomers. Imagine starting at a new company during COVID and you’re on a meeting and you’re like, “Oh my gosh, I’m on a Zoom right now with the CEO, with the top management team, with my boss. What is this jargon? Do they think I look professional? Does it look like I am talking in a dorm room?” All these concerns that you could have. 

And I will say when we did the Zoom fatigue research and then we started talking about it, I was like, “Yeah, this is just a couple year thing.” But no, people are still like, “No, it’s exhausting. Being on camera is exhausting.” The other thing that contributes to it too is you’re so aware when you’re on camera, you are so aware. You see yourself and you’re like, “Oh my gosh, is that my face?” 

Kate Young: 

Totally. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Like, “Is that my face?” 

Kate Young: 

“Is that what I really look like?” 

Allie Gabriel: 

“Is that what I look like when I talk,” because right now you and I are talking, we’re probably not thinking about as much what we look like or how we’re presenting ourselves, but on Zoom, you’re very aware of that. 

Kate Young: 

You’re watching yourself. 

Allie Gabriel: 

You are the number of times I’m distracted just watching myself. 

Kate Young: 

And that sounds vain, but I mean, who hasn’t felt that? 

Allie Gabriel: 

No, you’re just so hyper aware of it, and that’s distracting, right? Because that’s just not how we naturally want to interact with other people, so that was our Zoom fatigue work, and it’s still being talked about. We’re still working with companies and organizations who are like, “Yeah, we’re still struggling with this problem with our employees.” 

Kate Young: 

And has it resulted in, “Hey, you can have your camera off?” I know something that we were like, “Let’s stop with the lunchtime stuff. People are trying to eat lunch.” 

Allie Gabriel: 

Oh yeah, that’s the worst. 

Kate Young: 

And nobody wants to eat on camera. 

Allie Gabriel: 

And some people view that as rude when you eat on camera. We have some follow-up work we’ve been doing, and we asked people, what does it mean to be rude or disrespectful on a virtual call? And there were some typical things you would think like being late time waste, not managing time, holding people too long, but another big one was appearance, showing up, scattered and not like you were put together or ready for the call. And then eating. People were like, “I think it’s really rude and people are eating.” 

Kate Young: 

If you have 10 meetings in a row, you have to eat. 

Allie Gabriel: 

And that’s the problem. I think when we started relying on Zoom, all of a sudden at some point we all decided we don’t need breaks anymore. We’re like, “You know what I can do is I can have a meeting at 10:00, 11:00, 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, 4:00, back, to back, to back, to back, and this is fine because I’m home.” 

Kate Young: 

“I’m not commuting, I’m not…” 

Allie Gabriel: 

Right. “I’m not commuting. I’m secretly in my sweatpants. I can do whatever I want,” but going back to where we started, that also is leading to burnout, because we’re not taking care of ourselves anymore. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. That’s so interesting. What do you think organizations and leaders can do to better help their employees thrive at work, whether it’s in person or remote work? 

Allie Gabriel: 

Have intentional conversations of what it means to be at work, which sounds so obvious, but I don’t think we do that. I don’t think we have very intentional conversations when we all get together for a meeting to say, “Okay, what’s the tone of the meeting today? What do we want to get out of this? What do we want to do today? If virtual, what norms do we want to set around being on camera or not being on camera? Do we all want to call it and just get on the phone and all go for a walk? “That’s been my new favorite pivot, by the way, is rather than sitting on Zoom, I’ll send notes to people and be like, “Why don’t we actually just call each other-” 

Kate Young: 

Walk and talk? I love it. 

Allie Gabriel: 

“… and I get back on the phone and get outside and walk and actually get some movement in.” I think having some intentionality behind meetings, behind gathering behind what is in person, what can be virtual or hybrid, and really thinking about what it means to be at work. What do we want the workday to feel like? That would be really nice if everybody did that because instead what tends to happen is we all show up to work and we just start. It’s very rare that you actually have a moment of collection where you’re like, “Hey, everybody, what’s the vibe today?” We all try to get out of this. We’re all here. What are our collective goals? What do we want to work on? How do we want today to feel? How do we want to view breaks and our well-being? We don’t do that, and that’s a quick fix that doesn’t cost anything. It costs a little bit of time, but I think it can have a really profound impact then on how people experience their time at work and make it feel more in tuned with how they feel and how the collective’s feeling. 

Kate Young: 

I think even I’ll catch myself typing a message to someone first thing in the morning, and then I’m like, “Whoa, whoa. First of all, good morning.” 

Allie Gabriel: 

“Hi, who are you?” 

Kate Young: 

Just right out the gate and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, Kate.” No. If you were in person, you would be like, “Hey, what’s up? Good morning. Yeah, nice to see you.” 

Allie Gabriel: 

Those are the small talk pleasantries. 

Kate Young: 

That we’re missing with the virtual and remote work? I think so, yeah. Oh, there’s so many things. We could talk for hours. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Yeah, that’s fine. We can do that. 

Kate Young: 

Yeah. Okay, so we’ve covered topics that you’ve experienced firsthand. You had your first daughter, your baby in March of 2020, literally right before the world kind of shut down. And how did that experience influence your path today? Yeah, yeah. 

Allie Gabriel: 

So not only was she a pandemic baby, so she was born weekly on March 10th, 2020. So literally we walked into the hospital in one world and we walked out in a different one. And when you’re pregnant, and I had a pretty tough pregnancy physically at the end, got the flu, was on bed rest, the whole thing. So we weren’t paying as much attention. We knew, for instance, that COVID was a thing, but we were not paying attention to the reality that was setting in, because you’re just, “Oh my gosh, I’m about to have a small human for the first time.” What are we going to do? And I have the flu and we need to make sure I’m healthy, and so on. So we just went in blind. And so we were driving home and we put on the news and we’re listening and we’re like, “Okay.” And it just immediately was in lockdown, which was incredibly isolating. 

I think there’s already lots of challenges being a new parent or just being a parent, having a baby in general. You want that village that’s so hard to curate on a good day, and we just immediately found ourselves completely locked down with this little newborn baby, precious, precious, newborn baby who’s now five and thriving and going to kindergarten, which is so hard to believe. But at the time, it was really isolating. It was really, really lonely. We were lucky that we had some support from my parents and a little pandemic bubble, so to speak, but there’s no play dates, there’s no transitioning back to work and feeling like you can reclaim part of yourself, because at least you get to dress like a real person again, right? Yeah. 

You get to feel like you’re using a different part of your brain, and truly it was not a good place for me. I had really, really struggled with postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety and just found myself asking a lot of pretty existential questions about what are we doing, what did we do? And where that ended up was me feeling really passionate about helping other, I was already passionate about helping other working moms because I feel like all parents obviously are doing a lot, but I really believe working moms are doing the most in terms of just the physicality of pregnancy and childbirth and the recovery and then the struggle to reenter the workforce and feel like yourself again. But then going through this experience, I was like, “Okay, if I’m suffering and I feel pretty privileged that we have financial stability and some support, what is going on for other people?” 

And that really was a catalyst to asking bigger questions about how can we support people when they’re coming back to work? How can we better support women who might be going through postpartum depression? Because that diagnosis happens when people are on parental leave usually. It’s usually in the first two to 12 weeks that you get diagnosed. It could be a year. And so if you think about where that intersects with a parental leave, it’s smack in the middle. So you’re not only had this crazy life event because childbirth is crazy, having just started again five months ago, it’s crazy. But you go through that and then you layer on this really difficult diagnosis and now you have to come back to work and pretend like you’re okay and that you’re not fundamentally changed. And so it really just showed me how much work we still have to do, and I feel really, really lucky that I get to spend time asking those questions and trying to understand those experiences. 

Kate Young: 

So based on that, what do you think organizations can do to better support the success of working parents who are coming back from parental leave? 

Allie Gabriel: 

I will say, so we just had our second baby five months ago. 

Kate Young: 

Congrats. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Yeah. So you’re one of the first humans I’ve seen. 

Kate Young: 

I hope it’s a positive experience. 

Allie Gabriel: 

This is a positive experience. I am like, “Oh, this is…” I see lights and beautiful things here. No, I had it five months ago, and it’s been as hard as my first experience was. That’s how blissful and wonderful the second time around has been. And part of that of course is it’s a different time, but I think we were very lucky here to have a lot of proactivity in how people approached me going out on leave. And I think that is the best thing organizations can do. So there tends to be a lot of reactivity around working moms like, “Okay, there’s taboo around disclosing when a pregnancy is happening.” Or women may feel that there is, right? That you can’t share early. Candidly, I had to tell somebody here at Purdue last summer when I was I think five weeks along, which was risky, but I was thinking ahead about teaching. I was like, “Hey, I love my job. I don’t want to teach 38 weeks pregnant, so can we think about how this is going to work,” right? Or people don’t want to, maybe they don’t say it at all. 

Kate Young: 

Exactly. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Well, and going back to Zoom, there were some women who had full pregnancies during COVID and could hide it because of how Zoom is set up. And so I think because of a bunch of factors, there’s a lot of reactivity to it, that people react and you’re like, “oh, okay, you’re pregnant. Okay, nobody’s done that here in a while-” 

Kate Young: 

“So what do we do?” 

Allie Gabriel: 

“Let’s figure out how this works. And I think you get some leave. I don’t know if it’s paid,” and there’s just not clear support structures, versus having more proactivity, letting people know ahead of time, “Hey, here’s some policies we have. Here’s some things in place. So if this is something that happens in your life, we are ready and here’s what we can offer you.” 

Kate Young: 

“And we support you.” 

Allie Gabriel: 

“We support you. Here’s what we can offer you.” Having a coalition of other folks who have done this where maybe your a boss and you yourself have not used this benefits, you’re like, “I actually don’t know. However, we have a working moms group here or just a parent group and let’s get you over to those folks and they can tell you about their experiences on leave,” and that’s kind of what happened here is I had a lot of support and then they connected me to other people who either helped write the leave policies or had used the leave policies. 

And there was just a lot of creativity and proactivity of saying, “Okay, let’s think really creatively about your teaching. Let’s think about how this is going to look for advising students. Let’s think about what your next year will look like.” And I love that. And again, think that’s an easy thing organizations can do. The other part is to really think about how you celebrate people when they come back to work. So I think it’s twofold. One is celebrating that they’re back to work, that they were not on vacation. We have interviewed so many women who are like, “I’m so tired of people telling me to enjoy my vacation. It’s maternity leave.” 

Kate Young: 

Not vacation. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Yeah, not vacation. Lovely time, but totally different. But acknowledging that somebody just came back and that you’ve missed their contributions. So what happens sometimes is somebody comes back and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, thank goodness you’re back because it has been so chaotic since you left. We have had a cover for you. Have fun in your inbox because we have just blown it up.” 

And imagine that experience versus someone being like, “Oh my gosh, I’m so glad you’re back. Let’s take the next week and let’s just gradually catch you up to speed and you just spend the next week control-alt-deleting your inbox, and let’s start over and really welcome you back, ease you in. Why don’t you sit in meetings to hear what we’ve been doing?” And then the other part of it is like, “Hey, let’s also acknowledge that you’re now a mom and can you show me your baby pictures? How are you feeling?” How are feeling right now? And just asking again, these humanizing questions I think is really important for moms to feel like they’re being seen, both as a valued member of the organization and just a valued person who’s had this incredible thing happen to them. 

Kate Young: 

I love that. And it’s thoughtful and it’s… 

Allie Gabriel: 

It’s thoughtful. 

Kate Young: 

And it’s humanizing, like you said. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Yeah, I love my department here with organizational behavior and human resources at the Daniels school. They’re incredible. There was a meal train, some colleagues showing up being like, “You don’t have to see me.” And I was like, beautiful because I’m not fit for consumption, so no thank you. And they’re like, “You don’t need to even answer the door, but on your doorstep is a chicken pot pie and a container of fruit.” Or, “Hey, I dropped a Starbucks at your doorstep. We’re thinking of you.” And just these little touch points that were like, “Okay, people see that I’ve gone through this and they’re valuing that. And that’s really lovely and I think speaks to this place as a whole. It’s just a good community.” 

Kate Young: 

Yes. And speaking of Daniels school, you came two years ago. You were part of Purdue’s first wave of Movable Dream hires. So what were your key experiences that led you to become a Boilermaker? 

Allie Gabriel: 

We’ve just been so happy to be here. So my educational background, so I’m a product of the Big 10 in the Midwest is how I like to view it. So I did my undergraduate degree at Penn State. So I love the Boilermakers. I do love the Nittany Lions too. 

Kate Young: 

That’s okay. That’s okay. 

Allie Gabriel: 

So did my undergrad at Penn State and just fell in love with I think Big 10 campuses are special and have just something about them and the students and the faculty that work there in the communities. So that was my first college experience, and I just immediately fell in love with that. I then went on to do my PhD in organizational psychology at University of Akron in Ohio, not too far from here. And that’s where I met my husband. He’s from that area as well. And then we kind of did this national tour. 

So I spent a couple years in Richmond, Virginia at Virginia Commonwealth University, and then we spent eight really incredible years out in the desert in Tucson, Arizona at the University of Arizona. And it was great. I grew so much. We had so much fun. Winter was great. Summer, not so much. Winter was great. And I professionally always pictured myself at a big, Big 10 campus. So we kind of ended up having this dual goal of, “Hey, we think we want to get back to the Midwest and we think we want to get back to the Big 10.” And then we came here and I was like, “Oh, this is the…” You ever have that feeling when you step into a place and you’re like, “Oh, I think I’m supposed to be here?” And I had that feeling when I was a high school senior touring college campuses, and I stepped on my foot on Penn State’s campus. 

I had that feeling of like, “Okay, I’m supposed to be here.” And my husband came with me for the interview and we stepped under the arch right outside the student union and somebody took our picture and I just looked at him. I was like, “Oh, I think I’m supposed to be here.” And it has just been so great. It’s fun being somewhere that’s growing and just reinventing themselves, kind of staying rooted in tradition, but also reinventing themselves. I feel like that really exemplifies what Purdue is, and it’s been so fun trying to find my little niche of how I can contribute to that in a meaningful way. 

Kate Young: 

What factors put Purdue and the Daniels School at the forefront of modern workforces and that employee wellness and well-being out in the workplace? 

Allie Gabriel: 

We really have, I think, an embarrassment of riches here in terms of the people that are asking questions that really translate into what people are going through at work and in their lives. So when I was also thinking about places that I would be happy, different schools take different approaches to building. If you think about a department, it’s like a portfolio. Some people take a real diversification approach where they want every faculty member to do something pretty different. So you can have a lot of coverage. And I think there’s strengths to doing that. A different approach though is to say, “Hey, what’s our core values? Who do we see ourselves as?” And we’re going to start to build around that. And so what was already happening before I came here is if you were interested in well-being, work-family issues, work-non-work recovery, leisure, meaningfulness at work, relationships, it’s Purdue. 

And so for me, I always viewed Purdue that way, and that’s how I view my own research. And so the thought of getting to join what was already happening was really, really exciting. I also really appreciated the push that was happening here and is still happening of an interdisciplinary connectedness, so to speak, that the Daniels school was not its own little island that just happens to be at Purdue, but rather there was a push to make sure it’s connected to engineering, to the sciences, just all over campus, that there’s a real value in building relationships. It’s quite literally baked into being a Boilermaker here, that there is an emphasis on well-being and just seeing how serious that was taken and that it was such a core part of who people are here and what the place is was amazing to me. I loved it because a lot of people view well-being or did for a long time as this ancillary thing, like, “No, no, no, we’re just here to perform.” And your well-being is, “You go take a nap on your own time. You go do yoga on your own time and get it together.” And now it’s like, “No, no, no. We actually could build workplaces and we could be the example. We could be the example here of what this could look like to really thrive at work.” 

Kate Young: 

As the Faculty Director of the Center for Working Well, what motivated you to research broader issues facing employees and organizations in the workplaces? Was it your personal experiences? Have you always been interested in that type of stuff since childhood? 

Allie Gabriel: 

So I’ve just always been fascinated by people, how our experiences changed so dramatically from one day to the next or even within the same day. My day to day is already a bit like a roller coaster, just up and down. I think that’s so fascinating, and trying to figure out what’s contributing to that. And part of being trained as an organizational psychologist is we care about what we call the science practice gap. So we care about doing really rigorous scholarship and science and then translating it out to practice. So making sure what we do gets into the hands of people who can actually use it, because most people on the street and organizations, wherever are not going to pick up one of our academic journals and be like, “Oh, this is a real page turner.” 

Kate Young: 

Yes, yes. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Like, “Let me go ahead and read this,” right? They’re not going to do that. But they might read A, they might listen to a podcast, they might listen to a webinar series. 

And so that really was the spirit behind the Center for Working Well is I saw that there were already so many great people here that so much good work was being done, and I wanted to create a conduit to get that out to people. And so we do workshops, we’re doing engagements like Greater Lafayette, Chamber of Commerce, getting to speak to people, say, “Hey, we’re here. If you’re struggling with issues tied to well-being, tricky relationships, conflict, motivation, making your work more meaningful, you can come talk to us. We’re here, have us come to your company.” And that’s what’s been happening, is we are getting contacted to actually come and share what we know, which is such a relief as a faculty member. That’s why we all love educating. And a lot of times education stops as a college student, and we want to keep educating people who are out there in the workforce saying, “you know what? People are messy and they’re a lot messier than I expected, and I’m having these issues. And can we talk about and how to go ahead and fix that?” 

Kate Young: 

What do you think Working Well means and what are the most pressing topics that the center is addressing right now? 

Allie Gabriel: 

Yeah, Working Well to me means thriving at work and at home. I truly believe you cannot be well if you are suffering at work or suffering at home because these worlds are not as separate as we want them to be. There was a long time where, so a way people often think about work, and again, I call it nonwork, that can be your family. It could be your biological family, your chosen family, your friends, your church, your social club, your volunteer community league, whatever that is to you, that is important. And for a long time, we viewed these domains as something that you can choose to integrate. You could be somebody, I’m a high integrator, I don’t mind talking about my family, talking about my experiences, bringing those into the workplace. There’s a little bit of a privilege to be able to do that. With more status, you can do these things maybe a little bit more freely, or there’s people who are segmenters, they want to keep this separate, and people can do this really extremely. So if you come to my office on campus, there are family pictures everywhere. My five-year-old, sometimes she’ll come in, and I have a model on my whiteboard for my research, and she’ll start coloring it in and drawing her own picture. It’s very clear I have children when you come in my office ,or I have really weird hobbies and I’m doodling on my whiteboard. 

So I’m an integrator. But some people will not even bring family pictures to their office. They won’t take family calls when they’re at work. And I think people thought that that was the norm, but that’s not how this works. It’s really hard to do that. It’s hard to mentally shut these worlds down. 

If you think about a work day where maybe you and your partner got off on the wrong foot, you might be able to kind of cool that off on a commute, but those thoughts are still going to keep following you. And so I like to remind people that Working Well means you’re feeling like you can thrive at both work and at home, because those are going to cross back and forth. So if you have a bad work day, you probably go home and you’re not as great to your friends, to your spouse, to your kids, and vice versa. If your kid drops a cup of milk all over your kitchen in the morning and you have a stressful commute and then somebody misses the bus, that’s going to carry over to work. So how can we think about Working Well as building structures and supports that let people really dedicate the time they need to take care of themselves at work and take care of themselves when they are off the clock? 

Kate Young: 

I think too, with all the technology elements, it used to be when my parents were working that you almost could at least shut it off a little bit more. 

Allie Gabriel: 

It’s so bad. 

Kate Young: 

They’re not looking at their phone and their email. My father-in-law is always like, I missed the days where I could go to a conference and not be contacted by work, because I was in the conference actually learning things. 

Allie Gabriel: 

“I miss the days when nobody could find me.” 

Kate Young: 

Yeah. And so I’m sure there’s that element too, of and you can text people while you’re at work and you can look on social media and that might put you down or you see something on there, right? So there’s so many more elements in today’s world, 

Allie Gabriel: 

Right? Yeah. The constant connectivity is so much, it’s just so much. And yeah, so I think then it just makes it hard to shut down. And I think we make those mistakes all the time where we’re like, “Okay, I’m working at 8:00 PM tonight. You must also be working at 8:00 PM, so let me just send this email over here.” And what that does is it sends signals that that’s the norm. So you sending an email to somebody at eight 9:00 PM is now the norm of, okay, I’m working. 

Kate Young: 

And you can schedule alerts to everyone. You can schedule Teams messages and emails. 

Allie Gabriel: 

You can. in my email signature now. I put one of those disclaimers in, that’s like, “My work hours may not be yours.” Because really what I want to say is I have two kids now, and life is crazy. You’re going to get emails at really weird times of day. Please do not respond if this is not your time. And respond when you are able. 

Kate Young: 

Yes, I love those. Those are cool. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Yeah. And it’s within reason. I think the tricky part here with prioritizing well-being is there’s a way to also go too far and say, oh, go non-responsive for several days and say like, “No, no, no. I was prioritizing well-being.” Like, okay, wait, “I wasn’t doing my job.” 

Kate Young: 

Yeah, wait a second. 

Allie Gabriel: 

You’re like, “Wait, wait, wait. We’re taking this too far.” And so how can we do this professionally still? And I think there’s a way to do that, which is, “Hey, I’m having a little bit of burnout right now. I see your email, I see your message. Normally I would get to this today. I need to take a beat today, but I’ll get to it tomorrow. So don’t be surprised when you don’t hear from you today, but I see it. I see you. This is important to me.” 

Kate Young: 

Okay, so we’ll wrap it up here, but what small steps can current business leaders, anyone who leads a team, really take now to start improving their own workplace? 

Allie Gabriel: 

Ask questions, ask people how they’re feeling and mean it, right? And not just the small talk like, “Hi, how are you?” 

Kate Young: 

“How was your weekend.” Yeah. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Yeah, yeah. Which I’m terrible at small talk. That’s its own separate podcast. With small talk where you’re like, “Hi, how are you?” I’m like, “Oh, let me tell you.” And you’re like, “No, I didn’t ask that. I just wanted to know how’s the weather?” Ask questions and really listen to people. If you have people who are saying like, “Hey, I’m feeling really fatigued, I’m feeling really anxious.” I think there’s a tendency to be like, “Yeah, get in line. We’re all busy, we’re all anxious.” Actually, listen, because there’s great researcher at Wharton, she passed away a few years ago very, very tragically from glioblastoma, from brain cancer. She was an emotions’ researcher. I just looked up to her so, so much for the type of work she did. And she has this great talk where she talks about the power of emotions, and she’s like, “Emotions are data. They are not these things to not be felt, to not be listened to. They are data. They’re telling you something’s wrong. They’re telling you something’s good.” 

And I think managers asking questions of how people are, asking for instance, Kate, when was the last time somebody was like, “Hey, what do you want to get out of this job? What would make you happy?” My favorite interview question ever was actually when I interviewed here at Purdue, it was that when David Hummels was the dean at the time, it was this last year before Dean Jim Bullard stepped in and I was interviewing and I was just, I’d been out for a while, but I was still nervous. I’m like, “You’re meeting the dean.” And I was nervous and I really wanted this. So I was like, “Okay, get it together. Get it together.” And we’re having the normal questions. And all of a sudden he’s like, “So I have a question. What’s something that you want to do that’ll make you happy that you have not been able to do before that you think you could do here?” 

And I was just flabbergasted. And I was like, “I don’t know the last time somebody asked me what would make me happy.” That’s actually how the Center for Working Well was created, was that question wow. Where I was like, “Well, I’ve had this idea and I just word vomited.” I was like, “I think it could do this and I think it could do this.” And he just was listening and he’s like, “Okay, go write a couple pages,” and that was it. And then it went from page to real life in less than a year. And I was like, “How often though do people get asked, ‘What’s something you want to do that would make you happy?'” 

And I think it’s these easy little micro moments of humanizing people, going all the way back to the beginning of asking people how they are, what would make them happy, what is their life like outside of here, learning who they are. That would start to make work feel a lot better, especially as people are going through so many stressful things. I don’t think a lot of my colleagues necessarily knew I had postpartum depression. A few did, and I told some more people later and they’re like, “Well, why didn’t you tell me?” And I’m like, “I didn’t want to burden you.” 

Kate Young: 

And it’s intimidating. 

Allie Gabriel: 

It’s intimidating. Yeah, “I didn’t want to burden you.” And they were like, “You should have.” And I think good managers ask questions and listen and think about it and say, “Okay, I hear you, and maybe we can’t fix exactly what you’re saying or maybe I can’t do the exact thing you said that would make you happy, but let’s get close.” And I think it’s those little inching towards goodness that can be really, really impactful at work. And it all starts with talking and listening and building a culture where that is encouraged and supported. 

Kate Young: 

Well, Allie, this was a total pleasure. I could go on and on. Maybe we will. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Thank you for making me put on real people clothes for the first time in like five months. 

Kate Young: 

It is so great. Thank you so much. 

Allie Gabriel: 

Oh, thank you for having me. 

Kate Young: 

This interview was a mix of interesting and fun. Allie is such a genuine person, and Purdue is incredibly lucky to have her. If you want to hear more workplace tips from Allie, including how many exclamation marks is too many to add in an email, head over to our podcast YouTube channel youtube.com/@thisispurdue. 

This is Purdue has a very special series coming out this month. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast app and follow life at Purdue on social media for some hints and Easter eggs, and stay tuned for Monday, October 20th. Trust us, you will not want to miss it. This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Thad Boone, in collaboration with John Garcia, Zack Mogenson and Alli Chaney. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team, project manager is Rain Guo. Our podcast YouTube Promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistant is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. And our creative production assistant is Delaney Young. 

Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu slash podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. And as always, Boiler up.

Dimitri Peroulis: 

This is Dimitri Peroulis, and you’re listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you’re listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana-native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game-changers, difference-makers, ceiling-breakers, innovators, who are these boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Sometimes I compare my own experience as a student and the experience of the student now in the 21st century, in 2025 and beyond, and those students do need to be future-ready, they do need to understand how industry works, they do need to get hands-on learning experience, but they need to do that not as a one-off, but actually through a full integration. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we’re talking to Dimitri Peroulis, senior vice president for partnerships and online at Purdue University. Dimitri recently kicked off his 23rd year at Purdue. He leads the university’s online programs and the Offices of Industry Partnerships, Global Partnerships and Engagement. He also serves as the Riley professor of electrical and computer engineering. As a leading expert on new innovative degrees and courses for workforce development and advancement, Dimitri is digging into the ever-evolving higher education landscape and how Purdue is effectively preparing students to stay future-ready. Plus, he’s sharing his advice for students entering today’s workforce. So let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Dimitri. 

Dimitri, thank you for joining us on This is Purdue, the official Purdue podcast, so welcome to the show. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Thank you so much. It’s awesome to be here. 

Kate Young: 

You are an expert on new innovative degrees and different courses for workforce development and advancement, so we’re going to dive into all that today. We’re going to talk a lot about being future-ready and what that means. Let’s start by talking a little bit about your role. Tell us what you do at Purdue, and how the university is changing what college and experiential learning looks like. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Indeed, I’m wearing a couple of different hats. I’m an electrical engineer by training, so I’m a faculty member in the Elmore Family School of Electrical and Computer Engineering. I’m now serving as a senior vice president for partnerships and online. It’s interesting, partnerships include industry partnerships, it includes global programs and partnerships, and it includes the Office of Engagement, which is about our local city-level partnerships. And the online programs are mainly the programs that we offer through the main campus. We do have some online programs offered by regional campuses, but the majority are degrees and credentials here from West Lafayette. 

Kate Young: 

Dimitri explains how Purdue is changing what college and experiential learning looks like by partnering with leading corporations like Eli Lilly and Company and Wabash. 

How are the university’s strategic relationships with these companies helping students stay future-ready? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

That’s frankly what is on our mind when we’re thinking about these partnerships, and I think the key is to think of them as forging strategic-level partnerships that really will transform the experience of the student. Sometimes, I compare my own experience as a student and the experience of the student now in the 21st century, in 2025 and beyond, and those students do need to be future-ready, they do need to understand how industry works, they do need to get hands-on learning experience, but they need to do that not as a one-off, but actually through a full integration. And that’s frankly why we do these strategic partnerships, we try to integrate them fully in the curriculum of the student in terms of what they might learn in the classroom, but also what kind of research experiences they might have here on campus, what kind of internship experiences and co-ops might get, and global experiences. Some of the students like to do that and we really need to support them on this. 

So many of these partnerships, you will see that they provide a whole hub of experiences. With Lilly, for example, we have center on campus that really takes students to the next level of engagement with Lilly. The students can understand how drug discovery works, how pharmaceutical manufacturing works, what does it mean to take something from the lab of a university, which sometimes it starts as a pure curiosity, but actually then leads to a full-fledged manufacturing process. And with Wabash as well, so they just need to learn how do supply and chain management skills work, how do these very complex companies carry operations so efficiently. So it’s all about this synergistic operation and this strategic alliance that we try to form between the university and the companies. 

Kate Young: 

It definitely feels like the days of getting an internship one summer, one semester, and that’s that, is over. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Yes, indeed. 

Kate Young: 

It’s all about that hands-on experiential learning, like you just talked about. How did these relationships with companies like Lilly and Wabash strengthen the overall workforce development and advancement, especially like you talked about with the drugs going from a lab out to the world to solve these challenges, talk a little bit about the research initiatives that are addressing the world’s toughest challenges today. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

It’s interesting, when you think about the skills that the students will need when they join companies like the ones we’re talking about, of course, they will need what they learned in the classroom, but they will need a lot more. They will need a whole new mindset of how they apply problem-solving skills to solve some of these tough challenges. And those are young individuals that are going to join the workforce, and almost immediately, they’re going to be faced with the real world. And so, we try to make sure that while they’re still in the university and while they still have the time and the opportunity to learn those skills and to learn how to create this type of mindset, that they have all the time and the opportunity to do so. 

That’s why I often tell students what you get at Purdue inside the classroom should not be more than 50% of your whole experience, the other 50% is outside, and industry partnerships is a big part of that. The fact that we’re able to offer this to our students, it’s incredible. We have more than 400 industry partners right now. Very, very few universities can really provide this kind of an experience to the student. And students can learn not only from the professors who sometimes lead those partnerships, but through the people who work in those companies. We have a lot of alumni in those companies. A lot of times, they develop mentorship relationships. So one step brings the other and it basically leads students to where we think they can be leaders very quickly. 

Kate Young: 

What advice do you have for students, maybe they’re interested in research, internships, engagement opportunities, how should they get their foot in the door? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Well, first of all, I would say don’t be shy. 

Kate Young: 

That’s hard though. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

It’s hard, it’s hard. And we really try to make it as easy as possible by providing multiple pathways. For example, there are centers on campus, like the Undergraduate Research Center, that students can just go online or just go there and start getting the advice they need. We offer programs on campus, summer programs or programs… This semester, this fall, we have the Discovery Interdisciplinary Research Program. The students can participate and they can apply even if they have no connections on campus, even if they haven’t met anyone, even if they haven’t connected yet to maybe a research lab, they can immediately go ahead and do this. But I always advise students to also create their own network. They can connect, for example, with student clubs, there are hundreds of students clubs on campus, they can connect with research groups. Sometimes, knocking on somebody’s door, virtual or real, is a little bit intimidating, but that’s why we’re here. So thankfully, there are multiple pathways, and I always advise students to start with the most comfortable one, but slowly push their comfort zone to the next level. 

Kate Young: 

It gets easier and easier, right? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Indeed. 

Kate Young: 

Dimitri dives into Purdue’s flagship online programs, one of the intentional ways in which the university is adapting to an evolving workforce. He shares some of the most unique career-forward courses and degree programs available for today’s students. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

In the online world, you will see students who are pursuing full degrees. We call that the credit-bearing credentials. Students who will pursue, for example, full master’s degrees online. And frankly, at Purdue now, we have full doctorate degrees online. You can get a Doctor of Technology, and as of last year, a Doctor of Engineering fully online, very, very unique opportunities. And those are the same degrees and the same credentials that people can earn here on our campus. They still earn a Purdue degree, they still get to walk through the Elliott Hall, they get taught by the same faculty members, they take the same exams, the same assessments, and of course, the same degree as everybody else. But in addition to that, we have the second bucket of offerings. Those are, I would say, career-focused micro-credentials, so people who need or want to be up-skilled very quickly in a field. An example is AI. 

Kate Young: 

Sure, hot topic. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Exactly. So we have people who graduated just a few years ago, they never took a single course in AI, and now they have to go and either work in the field of AI or even lead a group in AI. And some of those individuals need to work in the, I would say, hard tech of AI, but others need to think about applying AI to different spaces. What does it mean, for example, to apply AI into business? What does it mean to apply AI into governance or ethics or policy? So we created specific micro-credentials for that. We have actually 13 micro-credentials right now. They last about a month. Students can take them at their own pace. And then, right after that, if they want, they can continue and get even a full degree. But if they don’t want or don’t need a full degree, they’re going to be ready for industry. 

Many of these credentials, by the way, are very unique in the sense… For example, the AI micro-credentials are the only ones and the first ones that have been ABET-accredited at Purdue here. Some micro-credentials are also stackable, you can stack one on top of the other and start building a degree pathway if you want to. Some of them are bringing topics together that you might not have thought about. For example, we have AI storytelling, so how do you bring AI and how do you build your skills to convey what you want to say in a very engaging way? And of course, depending on the field that you go, you can find exactly what you need. 

Kate Young: 

And these are degrees and coursework and certifications that didn’t exist, five, certainly not 10 years ago. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

That’s right, that’s right. Some of them are brand new. We tend to build degrees that are really needed in the workforce now, but also in the future. And the number of students pursuing those degrees at Purdue is growing. Right now, we have almost 6,000 students who pursue full degrees at Purdue, fully online, and almost 14,000 who pursue micro-credentials. Those students benefit from the Purdue ecosystem, the infrastructure, our faculty, our staff members, the whole expertise, and from the industry connections we have to make those degrees relevant. For example, we work very closely with industry to co-build some of those micro-credentials in the areas, for example, of semiconductors. We work closely with industry, we have people from the industry working hand-in-hand with Purdue faculty members to bring a very unique offering, so people get to learn the fundamentals, but also what is applied right now. 

Kate Young: 

How do these things, AI-related degrees, we just talked about semiconductors, hypersonic certificates, how do these new online programs really help keep students future-ready? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Future-ready is a very interesting word. I know we talked a little bit about that. But when I think about a future-ready student, I think somebody who’s going to thrive and lead a very rapidly changing world. It’s a matter of giving them a very strong technical foundation in the areas, for example, that you mentioned, but it’s also a way of making them understand how they need to think about the future. Their mindset has to be a mindset of curiosity, of creativity, a mindset where they can take risks, a mindset that allows them to be adaptive and flexible. The world is not what it used to be 10 or 20 years ago, and likely the speed is going to accelerate for these students. So when we bring them through those unique offerings, of course, we will teach them what they need, but we try to create those communities that they will learn from each other and they will learn from the leaders, both in industry, as well as in academia. 

Kate Young: 

And when it comes to these online offerings and class formats, how does that differ from what Boilermakers get with the more traditional path? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

For people who pursue degrees, we have the same faculty members and the same people who will teach them, but the flexibility is the key. So the typical online student is a student who is a working professional, they tend to manage full-time jobs, sometimes they tend to manage families, so they have limited amount of time, so they need to focus on what they need to do, and they have to basically do that very quickly and very efficiently. So we try to be really flexible on what we’re doing, and we try to support them in terms of what they need. 

I’ll give you an example. A few years ago, and this is happening almost every year, I had a student who was a nuclear submarine officer. The student sent me an email at the very beginning of the semester saying, “Professor, I’m going to be literally underwater for three weeks, so I won’t be able to download lectures, I won’t be able to submit homework, I won’t be able to do projects.” And of course, we helped the student do the work as he needed. And it’s that flexibility, I think, that has put Purdue in a leadership position in the online courses, of course, in many other areas. But just to give you an example, many of our degrees are top ranked right now, many engineering degrees are top ranked, mechanical engineering is top ranked, electrical engineering is top ranked, engineering management, industrial engineering and so on. We really recognize, I think, in the way we do things and the kind of care, I think, we give to the students. 

Kate Young: 

How is Purdue, and specifically the online programs that we’re talking about, preparing students to leverage the degrees, the coursework, to excel after graduation? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

First of all, we make sure that the students are truly taught by the very best. We’re very blessed to have here on campus the very best faculty, so they really learn from the very best. They really learn from people who don’t just teach the material, but the ones who are leading the future, and getting that experience, I think it’s invaluable. At the same time, they get those connections with industry folks. Many of the companies that I discussed before are also engaged in the teaching and learning for the students. 

And of course, we help them afterwards. The students have the ability to come back to us every time they need something. This is not a static world. There are students who, yes, maybe right now, they’re studying AI, but perhaps sometime later, they need to study something more in the creative arts or something more in the business domain. So how does the business mindset blend with, let’s say, a science or engineering mindset? So we’re always there for them. When they come to our door, they can be absolutely certain that they get the best of the best, and in a way that they can actually learn, meet them where they are. 

Kate Young: 

And speaking of faculty, you still teach, you said- 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

I do. 

Kate Young: 

… this will be your 23rd year at Purdue. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

I do, I do. 

Kate Young: 

Amazing. Congrats. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

I’m teaching every semester, yes, thank you. 

Kate Young: 

Let’s dive into your Purdue journey. How did you come to Purdue? What’s your background? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

After I finished my PhD, I was looking for a university that could truly help me apply my knowledge, but at the same time, teach students. So I was looking for this, let me call it, perfect balance between research excellence and teaching excellence, and Purdue’s values were really well-aligned with what I was looking for. At the same time, Purdue had the facilities that I needed. I’m doing experimental work in the area of electronics and semiconductors. The Burke Nanotechnology Center was just coming up at the time I joined Purdue, so this was a big magnet, I think, for me, as well as many other folks. And I still remember how welcoming the community was here. It was incredible to start talking about collaboration options, growth opportunities, from my very, very first week here, and that spirit still remains. So there was no question really. 

Kate Young: 

And you won the Charles B. Murphy Outstanding Undergraduate Teaching Award in 2010, which is Purdue’s highest undergraduate teaching honor. How do you think your passion for teaching and your professional background helps you in your current role today? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

I have been thinking a little bit about that over time, because I’m still teaching, but I’m still serving the university in different roles, and a lot of times, I think the skills in teaching and the skills in leadership overlap. For example, in teaching, I think a good teacher is all about connecting with the students, is all about curiosity, compassion a lot of times, and at the end of the day, what are you trying to do? You’re trying to truly empower a student to take the next step that normally they couldn’t take before you met them. But now, they feel not only they can take it, but they actually can take it with confidence, so they feel really empowered. 

In many ways, leadership positions require similar skills. And so, when I work with my colleagues, when I’m thinking about their problems, when I’m thinking about the next step we have to take as a university, a lot of these thoughts come back and I think a lot of these skills help me move forward. And of course, I’m an engineer by training, I have to bring my engineering and problem-solving mindset into this. So I think it all blends in a creative way. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely, that’s special. So you grew up in Greece and studied there, we had Assistant Professor Alex Psomas was also a fellow Greece resident. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Oh, yeah. 

Kate Young: 

And then, you were a graduate student at the University of Michigan. What did the workforce look like then? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Boy, I’ll try to remember, it’s been a while. But I do remember that when I was an undergraduate student back in Greece and I was studying engineering, it was a different world. The emphasis was a lot more on building analytical skills, it was also a lot more building a theoretical foundation, less about hands-on learning. And at the time, I think all I was thinking about, and most of my colleagues, were excelling academically and looking for some type of, I would say, stable next step. And again, I think we were in an academic environment that was more or less stable for decades. I’m not sure we can say that at this point. 

But in my graduate studies, things changed a little bit. I think everybody who goes to grad school find themselves in this dynamic environment which is very much innovation-driven. I actually chose to do a hands-on PhD, a lot of hours in the lab, a lot of hours trying things, even though I had almost no background in this, mostly because I wanted to push myself to learn that part of the world. And now, we come to university that gives opportunities to the students, thankfully much more than I experienced, much more than just the analytical skills, just the technical skills, forcing the students to think about business, forcing the students to think about entrepreneurship, allowing them to connect with the industry, allowing them to think a bit more broadly about the world. So thankfully, I think we are now providing more opportunities than in the past. 

Kate Young: 

Reflecting back and knowing everything that you know now, if you were a student at Purdue today, what career path do you think that you would take? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Oh, sometimes I think I wish I could become a student again, because we’re all learning, we talked about lifelong learning before, so I’m trying to do this in many opportunities as much as I can. But if I was back at Purdue, I think, as a student, perhaps I would think about three different dimensions. So one would be, I would say, excellence in technology. I’m an engineer, so I have to think about that, I’m sure it’s not for everyone. But think about depth in the particular field you want to focus on. But then, I would also think about creative expressions. I think this is so crucial in today’s world. We talk a lot about AI, we talk a lot about technology, but what about poetry and what about music and what about what makes all of us humans? I think this kind of creative expression will be more and more crucial in the future. And the last thing I would say is about thinking about the global business impact. So as I’m thinking about what domain I would focus on, I would try to make sure it’s business-relevant, and ideally in a global perspective. 

Kate Young: 

What advice do you have for students entering the workforce today? What are some practical steps that they can use to stay adaptable, resilient, persistent, what advice do you have? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Well, I think you already mentioned some very key- 

Kate Young: 

Key words. 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

… key words. I would start with resilient. The world is changing, setbacks are almost unavoidable, challenges, frustrations, are difficult not to face. So resilience is a key, I think, skill and mindset that people need to bring. But also, the workforce provides opportunities. So I would think of a student who is applying both, I would say, an offensive approach, in the sense of grabbing opportunities, being out there, hungry to learn, hungry to contribute, eager to move the world forward in the right direction, and at the same time, being able to cope with difficulties that will come almost for sure, so not being discouraged, not giving up. The world is moving fast, is adaptive, but it also provides lots of opportunities. So that mindset, I think, is crucial. 

Kate Young: 

Well, Dimitri, it was a pleasure. Thank you for joining us today. Is there anything else that you’d like to tell our listeners or our viewers? 

Dimitri Peroulis: 

Well, as you can probably imagine, I’m quite excited about being at Purdue. Maybe one thing I will add is that no matter if you are a student or if you’re an industry partner or if you’re a global partner or if you’re a researcher or a faculty member, I think people find that Purdue is where innovation actually meets impact, and that’s what really is exciting so much. And that’s what I think all of our partners, no matter which direction come to us and no matter what opportunities they explore with us, at the end of the day, they think about people and impact. So thank you. 

Kate Young: 

Yes, absolutely, thank you so much. 

Dimitri exemplifies the Boilermaker spirit and humility, and we can’t thank him enough for joining us. If you’re interested in learning more about Purdue online, you can visit purdue.edu/online. Dimitri also shared some bonus content with us, including his top two majors of the future on our podcast YouTube channel, youtube.com/@thisispurdue, and don’t forget to hit that subscribe button while you’re there. Plus, be sure to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. We have a very special series coming out in October, and trust us, you will not want to miss it. More to come on that very soon. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Thad Boone, in collaboration with Jon Garcia, Zach Mogensen and Alli Chaney. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. And our creative production assistant is Dalani Young. Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. And as always, Boiler Up.

Kate Young: Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you’re listening to This Is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking, who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni, taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Sutton Tyson: We’re very used to the five o’clock evening news where you sit down and you have that hour-long packaged segments type of news programming. Streaming functions very differently in that it’s on-demand. You can access it at any time, whether it’s airing live or whenever you’re able to watch. There’s device flexibility. It’s not just being cast from your television. You can watch it on your phone, watch it on your laptop. There’s a variety of ways in which you can access this news content that didn’t use to exist. 

Kate Young: In this episode of This Is Purdue, we’re talking to Purdue College of Liberal Arts alumna Sutton Tyson. Sutton is a rising talent in the broadcast journalism field and is currently the booking producer for The Takeout with Major Garrett on CBS News. She also previously served as the spokeswoman in the National Press Office for the FBI, where she covered issues of national security, criminal activity, and counterintelligence. As the rise of social media continues to grow and less people are sitting down to watch the 5:00 p.m. news on their TVs, Sutton shares what she believes the future of the news holds, especially for younger generations. Plus, we discuss her incredible career journey in Washington DC and her firsthand experiences in the rapidly evolving news industry. Okay, let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Sutton. Sutton, thank you so much for joining us on This Is Purdue, Purdue’s official university podcast. Welcome to the show. Thanks for coming. 

Sutton Tyson: Thank you. Thank you for having me. 

Kate Young: Younger audiences, and a specific generation is on a lot of people’s minds lately, it’s making headlines, it’s Gen Z. You’re someone who works behind the scenes at a major news network, CBS. What is your approach to meeting this demographic where they are? 

Sutton Tyson: Gen Z, they’re not the up and coming generation anymore. They’re the ones that we are really speaking to at this point. The biggest thing that stands out to me about their generation is their ability to seek authenticity and transparency. They’re the generation that grew up with influencers and catered content based on whatever their interests are, their passions. So that really does shape from a news standpoint how we’re really re-envisioning delivering the news. How do we give content that meets the demand that is speaking to this authenticity and this transparency and catered to a younger audience? At least for me personally, it’s definitely forced me to re-imagine how we reach that demographic in a way that’s tangible. 

Kate Young: They’re used to quick clips. They’re on YouTube. They’re on TikTok. They’re on Instagram. How much do you take that fact into consideration when you’re booking guests and shaping content for The Takeout? 

Sutton Tyson: A lot of my consideration when I’m looking to book a guest for our programming, it’s not just who’s going to give the best interview, but who’s going to give content that can function both as a long-form interview and be compelling but can also be a bite-size piece that can go on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. It’s very multifaceted, I would say, in my thought process in booking. I guess to join us, you’re wanting them to be able to, again, reach this generation on a variety of different platforms. 

Kate Young: And have that authenticity, too, I’m sure. 

Sutton Tyson: Absolutely. 

Kate Young: You believe streaming is the future of news, and that’s something that The Takeout is addressing. So they’re streaming on CBS on the website as well as a podcast. Walk us through streaming. How is streaming different from sitting down and watching the five o’clock news every night? 

Sutton Tyson: There’s a variety of ways that streaming differs from your traditional broadcast news. We’re very used to, as you said, the five o’clock evening news where you sit down and you have that hour-long packaged segments type of news programming. Streaming functions very differently in that it’s on-demand. You can access it at any time, whether it’s airing live or four or five, six hours later whenever you’re able to watch. There’s device flexibility. It’s not just being cast from your television set. You can watch it on your phone, watch it on your laptop, access it from a podcast platform. So there’s a variety of ways in which you can access this news content that didn’t use to exist. 

Also, I think the streaming format provides a more casual and formal setting, which is neat because it gives the opportunity for us to have more long-form intentional conversations. You’re not seeing those cut down two to three-minute interviews that came from a 30-minute sit down. You can actually capture that entire conversation, air the whole thing on your streaming platform, and then, as I said earlier, cut those down into the bite-sized pieces to put on your social media platforms like the TikToks and the Instagram. So it’s a very different way in which we’re creating and packaging news, but it provides, I would say, vast opportunity in a way that traditional broadcast just doesn’t. 

Kate Young: I know, too, with podcasting, we always talk about you can download it and it’s there on a flight, or if you lose WiFi on a road trip, you lose phone service, you can still access it versus sitting in front of the TV like traditional broadcasting. 

Sutton Tyson: Yeah, that’s exactly right. 

Kate Young: I asked Sutton how she thinks broadcast news and news consumption will change in the next five to 10 years. Does she ever envision cable news going away completely? 

Sutton Tyson: I think we’re already seeing this change play out with the iterations of streaming over the past few years. It goes back to this new generation, these up-and-coming generations that are seeking the content that they want. Do I think that that will completely rid us of traditional broadcasts altogether? I doubt it, but the way in which we are providing news is going to constantly evolve. Again, it’s why I find streaming to be such a unique platform for us to really think outside the box, be creative, and not just reach the younger generations, but reach all the generations based on the content that they’re choosing to consume. 

Kate Young: Sutton reflects on the potential challenges that traditional news networks have to navigate now that streaming is growing in popularity. 

Sutton Tyson: Traditionally, broadcast news, as it currently stands, its target demographic is just a much older age range than what you might see with a streaming audience. So I think in that sense, crafting the messaging so that it’s resonating with the audience that is tuning in, it’s really important. That’s something where, when it comes to the streaming networks, the streaming shows and segments that we have, it’s a bit more diverse in the sense of the age demographic ranges from young to old. You have more flexibility in your messaging and your strategy. 

Kate Young: Let’s go back to your career path, your Purdue journey. You graduated from Purdue’s College of Liberal Arts with a bachelor’s degree in mass communications and then a minor in political science. Then you moved to DC, you said, right after graduation. 

Sutton Tyson: Yeah, I graduated and moved the next week. 

Kate Young: That is so cool. You worked in the nonprofit sector, and then you transitioned to a role with the National Press Office representing the FBI. I know we talked before this interview, you said you had a bit of an unconventional career trajectory, which I kind of agree, and I’m also a mass communications major from CLA. But tell us more about your career journey after graduating from Purdue. 

Sutton Tyson: I’ll backtrack actually just a little bit before I even started at Purdue just to give some context. I’m from a one-stoplight town in Indiana, a proud Hoosier from southern Indiana, but I’ll always be Boilermaker at heart. But right before I started at Purdue, I had the chance to go teach English in Thailand over the summer. It was really kind of a whim decision on my part. I was going to visit some friends. But once I got there, I realized that the kids who I was living and teaching and working with were rescued from human trafficking. That completely altered my views on life and humanity and certainly what I wanted to do with my career. 

It was an interesting way to start at Purdue because, as you said, I was a mass communication major. It had been my dream since I was a little girl to be the Jane Pauley or the Barbara Walter. Now I had this newfound passion to raise awareness about this humanitarian issue and really work to try and create change. That’s what shaped me over my four years at Purdue that then launched me to DC. As you said, I worked in the nonprofit sector that was working for an organization called International Justice Mission, which is one of the largest anti-slavery nonprofits. 

I kind of followed that passion here in DC, but really always down in my gut knew that I wanted to pursue something that aligned with journalism and news. So the opportunity to work at the FBI came about a year after I moved to DC. I started in 2017. I spent five years with the FBI. The bulk of my time was spent as a spokesperson in the National Press Office. That was a really unique opportunity for me for a variety of reasons. It was very high stakes. It was having really the mouthpiece for this international agency. It also gave me the chance to work firsthand and cultivate relationships with national reporters, international reporters, news outlets. So it aligned with really everything that I cared about, mission-focus, mission-oriented, but also really tapping into my love for journalism. I really learned a lot from that role, learning how to work under pressure, communicate with executives, prep executives for news interviews, communicate crisis events. Also really ensure that with all of these crisis events that you’re speaking to as a spokesperson, you’re implementing that compassion, that empathy. It was an incredible opportunity. 

Kate Young: I can only imagine every day was so different from the previous day. What was a typical day, though, working for the FBI? 

Sutton Tyson: Every day was different. You’re exactly right. I was in the Press Office through a number of major historical events. Was there during the COVID epidemic, was there during the 2020 civil unrest. Also worked there through the course of two different presidential administrations. So there was a lot happening while I was there. With each thing that was thrown at us, we really just had to work as a team and learn how to navigate it as an organization. 

For me specifically, I was the one that helped lead our COVID fraud response. So I did a lot of work with our Criminal Division. That particular unit within the division oversees financial fraud. So they had a huge hand in doing a lot of the news, interviews, the press releases, the press conferences, really raising awareness about all the different types of COVID fraud that took place over those three, four years. It was really impactful to be able to help shape the narrative and get that message out to help protect the American people. 

Then certainly with the civil unrest that we saw in 2020, I had the opportunity to actually go help one of our field offices that was in the middle of all of that and help shape their messaging strategy, work with the state and local law enforcement there to make sure that everyone was operating in a cohesive manner. It ranged every day. Then on some days, FBI Director Wray would be doing an interview, and I’d be powdering his face before he went on camera. So you just never really knew what the day would hold. 

Kate Young: All duties as assigned. 

Sutton Tyson: That’s right. Yes, exactly. Serving the American people no matter what. 

Kate Young: What types of lessons did you learn in this role that you applied to your job as a news producer later? 

Sutton Tyson: Learning how to work under pressure, and also really prioritizing empathy and compassion in a way that I was communicating, whether it was writing a press release, helping one of our public affairs officers out in the field who’s about to go and do a press conference on a mass shooting, prepping the FBI director to do those 60 Minutes interviews. A lot of the time, the topics that we were addressing, they impact real people. They impact people like you and me and our parents and grandparents. So always making sure that no matter what the issue was at hand we were putting information out for, we always kept that empathy and humanity at the forefront of our mind. 

That’s certainly something now working as a producer in the news industry it’s so important, when there’s crisis events or really big news in the headlines that we’re trying to make tangible and digestible to the average viewer, you want to be able to have that human emotion, that authenticity and transparency. So I’m really grateful to have learned that at my time at the Bureau because it’s paid dividends now being on the other side in the news industry itself. 

Kate Young: A lot of times it’s bad news. I know recently in January you reported on the Army Black Hawk helicopter collision over the Potomac in DC. What is it like in those breaking news moments to shape the content, shape the news in these high pressure situations? 

Sutton Tyson: I think it’s situations like the plane crash that happened in January that really show how make or break this industry is in the sense of it’s critical that we do our jobs professionally and quickly and accurately and, again, approach them with that empathy and that compassion and humanity. The plane crash for me was a really challenging story to cover. 

I live here in DC, as you know, and so I was one of the first on the scene at Reagan National. My job as a booker is to be one of the first people that these family members, these loved ones see and are confronted by to offer our condolences and also try and get information as to what exactly is happening. There is a definite amount of responsibility there but also an immense amount of sympathy and acknowledgement to the human component of the tragedy that these people have faced that you have to be very mindful of. I think more than ever, that plane crash, that story that we covered really identified that for me. 

One of the people that I ended up going and interviewing was the manager of an ice skating rink in Ashburn in Virginia where a lot of the kids would train throughout the course of the day. I remember standing there and I’m holding my phone and I’m asking him questions, and you could just see in his eyes just the immense amount of devastation. That’s something that I think when a tragedy unfolds and we’re watching it play out on TV, sometimes when you’re just sitting on your couch watching, you sometimes don’t always get that raw emotion. But that’s something that I’ll never forget because it truly solidified for me and reminded me just how real these situations are, how impactful they are, and how important it is, and my responsibility as a reporter, as a producer to tell those stories well and accurately. 

Kate Young: You shared with me previously, too, that… I know you just said that that crash specifically was a really tough one for you. How do you take care of your mental health, that workplace wellbeing when you’re covering these horrific events? 

Sutton Tyson: It’s something that I think is really important for us to talk about because, especially working in the news industry, it’s constant. It’s never ending. The news doesn’t stop, as they say, and it is true. It’s so important working in this industry that we all prioritize our mental health and our wellbeing. So for me, I really do, as best I can, work to, the trendy saying, work-life balance. In the times where I can put my phone down and sit on the couch and watch a movie or cuddle with my dogs or take a walk, I take that on. I really make sure that I’m maximizing my time, just prioritizing, taking care of myself, working out, eating healthy. The things that everybody says you should do, it really does make a difference. Because just like with the plane crash, once something happens and you’re on, you’re on until the story is told. You have to be on your A game and ready at any moment for breaking news. So that downtime is just critical to rejuvenate and recoup and make sure that you’re at your best. 

Kate Young: I think that’s super important what you just said about always being on. It’s your job to tell the story and finish out the story. So as details are emerging, you’re on once again, right? 

Sutton Tyson: Yeah, exactly, exactly. 

Kate Young: You mentioned a couple of things, working out, going for a walk, eating healthy, all the things we should be doing, right? Any other go-to tips, methods for self-care, especially if anyone’s going through a challenging time at work? 

Sutton Tyson: I think another thing that’s been really important for me is really leaning on my community, leaning on my loved ones, being honest about my struggles and what I’m facing, not shying away from it, but just acknowledging that sometimes we do need our community to lean on. I’m very lucky to have incredible friends and family who make that pretty easy for me to do. They’re invaluable and really, I think, help me refocus in times where I’m just drained or need a break. So that’s, I think for me, one of the biggest ways that I just refocus, recoup, and get back on track and ready to keep going. 

Kate Young: You’ve had this incredible career, all of these experiences. The timing and relevancy of when you’ve served in these roles is super interesting, too. What skills or tools, experiences that you had as a Boilermaker really shaped and prepared you for these jobs today? 

Sutton Tyson: One thing that I always tell people, and it was one of the best pieces of advice that I was given before I even started at Purdue was from a dear friend of mine, Trisha Sorrells Doyle. She’s also a reporter in her own right. I remember she told me, “Right now, being from a one-stoplight town, you’re the big fish in a little pond, and you’re about to go become the small fish in a big pond. So with that in mind, make yourself the big fish in the big pond.” She gave me such great advice. Introducing myself to my professors, which was something I did at the beginning of every semester. I’d go just introduce myself. Really investing in my relationships, both with friends, but also with guest lecturers, with professors, thought leaders. That’s something that I think sometimes I might differ from other people. I don’t really love the word networking because to me that’s so transactional. 

Kate Young: Or intimidating, right? 

Sutton Tyson: Yes, absolutely. For me what I found to be most beneficial, certainly at my time at Purdue, was really cultivating meaningful relationships, sustainable relationships with professors, with friends, with bosses, with guest lecturers. Because ultimately, those are the people that then in turn invested in me and helped me get here. Without those connections and those relationships, it’s fair to say I probably wouldn’t be where I am right now. That was probably the biggest takeaway for me in my time at Purdue was getting the opportunity to learn that skill and see the importance and the value of it to then come to a city like DC and continue to really cultivate meaningful relationships. 

Kate Young: On that note, is that some of the advice that you would give to Boilermakers? Whether they’re hoping to pursue careers in media, any type of critical skills that they might learn during their time at Purdue, what would you tell them? 

Sutton Tyson: Absolutely, absolutely. If there’s one piece of advice I give to any student it is this, and I believe in it because it’s proven to be so beneficial and impactful to me. There are still professors at Purdue that we follow each other on LinkedIn. We’ll message each other. It’s so important to not just be a face but to be someone that people know. They know your goals and your heart and your intentions, and likewise, that you allow yourself to be that for others. Because once you keep going in your professional career, and even in your personal life, too, it’s those types of relationships that you can lean on and rely on. It shows who you are as a person. It kind of sets you apart. So, yeah, it’s the biggest piece of advice that I can give to up-and-coming students, soon to be, or recent grads. Just really, really take the time to invest in the people around you. 

Kate Young: I love that, too, because in your role as a producer, you’re speaking to connections that you’ve formed, maybe relying on them or working with them to gather some of the things that you need for your current job, so it was important to cultivate relationships there for the next step in your career. 

Sutton Tyson: Probably the biggest part of my job is building relationships with people, be it congressional members, their staff, agency executives. Being able to have those existing relationships and just send a text message or make a phone call on a whim, it’s a game changer. It’s a huge part of this job. It’s a huge part of being in the news industry. Fortunately, that’s a skill that I really value, so it’s not difficult for me to- 

Kate Young: It’s more and more difficult though, isn’t it? As you see people, they don’t want to talk on the phone. 

Sutton Tyson: It’s true. 

Kate Young: They don’t want to call to the doctor’s office. 

Sutton Tyson: It’s true, yes, yeah. I think as we continue to become a world that’s more reliant on things that communicate for us, AI, social media, DMs- 

Kate Young: Yeah, totally. 

Sutton Tyson: … it’s all the more important that we exercise that muscle and continue to prioritize those face-to-face sustainable relationships with other people because this will never fail you. That will only ever be a benefit. 

Kate Young: I love that. What is something people would be surprised to know about working in broadcast journalism and that 24/7 news cycle? 

Sutton Tyson: I think one of the biggest surprises for me was seeing just how much work goes into a television show. As a viewer and a subscriber, you see the pretty, neat finished package of the news. What people don’t realize is that sometimes we have a guest that’ll cancel an hour before the show starts, and we’re scrambling to find somebody who can fill the slot. Or breaking news will happen 10 minutes before we’re supposed to go on air, and so we’re scrambling to write scripts and make sure the anchor is read up on it. It’s kind of always a mad scramble. 

That’s also such an incredible part of being in this industry is that it’s such a team sport. There are so many people involved in making sure that the ship sails. A lot of those people never really… well, most all you won’t see in front of a camera. There’s only few who have that role. But there are so many individuals, the producers, the cameramen, the tech managers, the bookers, we all play a really vital piece in making sure that the stories that we tell and the segments that we produce are top-notch. So I always love to give a shout out to all of us who work in the industry because it’s a crazy life that we live. 

Kate Young: The behind the scenes. 

Sutton Tyson: So important, yeah. 

Kate Young: Then you have to turn around and do it all again the next day, right? 

Sutton Tyson: That’s right. That is exactly right. 

Kate Young: Well, I’ve loved this conversation. My very early career was in local news in Indiana, so this has been super cool to talk to someone who really made it big and made it to that national stage. I love all your advice about cultivating relationships, too. I think that’s so important. Is there anything else that you’d like to share with our listeners? 

Sutton Tyson: I’m so grateful for this opportunity. It’s always a pleasure to be able to share the insights that I’ve gained over the past decade. I love being able to just invest and uplift our up-and-coming Boilermakers who are going to enter the workforce. So really grateful for you having me. 

Kate Young: Amazing. Thank you, Sutton. 

Sutton Tyson: Thank you, Kate. 

Kate Young: It was a pleasure getting to know this young Boilermaker alumna on This Is Purdue. We’re so appreciative Sutton could join us. You can check out additional content and bonus clips from Sutton’s interview, like her tips on how to break the ice and make a great first impression when meeting new people, on our podcast YouTube channel, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. And of course, be sure to follow This Is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This Is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Thad Boone. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. 

Thanks for listening to This Is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. Don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. And as always, Boiler Up!

Brent Yeagy: 

This is Brent Yeagy and you’re listening to This is Purdue. 

Matt Butler: 

This is Matt Butler and you’re listening to, This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Brent Yeagy: 

What Purdue has done with freezing tuition, coupling that with a highly prominent top-tier research institution, is the national benchmark. The value that a Purdue student gets today is off the chart. 

Matt Butler: 

Lots of options in which you can accelerate attainment and increase attainment for better bank through. But I see those are some real trailblazing areas Purdue’s working in. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Brent Yeagy and Matt Butler. Now, you’ve probably seen the headlines about how the value of higher education is rapidly evolving and Brent and Matt are joining us today to answer the question, is college still worth it? Brent is a transportation industry leader and is the president and CEO of Wabash, a logistical equipment manufacturer headquartered in Lafayette, Indiana. He’s been spearheading strategic direction and operations there since 2018. Brent is a Purdue engineering alum and a university partner, which we’ll dig into more here soon, but he’s seen firsthand how a Purdue degree can impact your life and how the university is driving innovation. Matt is a higher education and workforce expert and previously served as a senior policy advisor for former Indiana governor, Eric Holcomb. Matt is a Purdue alum as well. Today Matt serves as the senior associate commissioner and chief academic officer for the Indiana Commission for Higher Education. 

In this episode, we’ll discuss Purdue’s approach to affordability, return on investment, and how today’s students are preparing for a future that looks dramatically different from the past. Should people still be investing in higher education and what’s Purdue doing differently when it comes to earning a college degree? We’re diving into all of this and more with Brent and Matt. Here’s our conversation. Brent and Matt, thank you so much for joining us on This is Purdue, Purdue’s official university podcast. So Brent, you are a transportation industry leader, you’re the president and CEO of Wabash National Corp. You’re also a Purdue alum. 

Brent Yeagy: 

Correct. 

Kate Young: 

Welcome to the show. And Matt, you’re also a boilermaker alum. Welcome to the show. So, you are a higher education and workforce expert and right now you’re the senior associate commissioner and chief academic officer for the Indiana Commission for Higher Education. You’re working to ensure that the state’s post-secondary offerings are meeting the needs of the modern workforce, which is exactly what we’re going to dive into today. So, we’re eager to get to know both of you and discuss what Purdue is doing differently when it comes to earning a college degree. So we’re just going to get right into it. As I just mentioned, we’re talking about this buzz worthy topic. Do you all think that higher education and a college degree is still worth it? 

Brent Yeagy: 

I personally have seen that in different media publications, articles, social media, really asking that question, and a lot are advocating on the negative. I would have to say I don’t agree with that in any way, shape or form. And in no way, shape or form has Wabash embraced that mindset in any way, shape or form. I think the process of going through a degree is forming in terms of the maturity and the experiences and the problem solving and the resiliency of people. I think when it’s applied with solid degree programs, with all of the external application of what they learn, it creates a robust experience that employers can leverage. Now, obviously there’s times when maybe a person doesn’t necessarily get into a robust degree program or institution, that’s a different problem, but in terms of saying that’s a general consideration, that it’s not effective, don’t buy into that. 

Kate Young: 

What about you Matt? 

Matt Butler: 

I would wholeheartedly agree. The Georgetown Center for Education and Workforce forecasts that 66% of good jobs, good jobs in 2031 will require a bachelor’s degree and most of those will require even more. I think also sometimes when we think of college, we also need to think of post-secondary training like credit bearing certificates, apprenticeships that sometimes have an associate degree with them. So I agree with Brent that in every way, shape or form we have the metrics that the post-secondary credential still has currency, if not even more so. However, individual results may vary, more degrees might be more career relevant than others, especially in such a, when technology’s evolving so much. But I think the other good thing is that we know that who’s your families based on research we’ve done at the Commission for Higher Education, that 80% of students and families value post-secondary education. 

Kate Young: 

How do you think Purdue is bridging the gap between traditional academics and real world industry needs? 

Brent Yeagy: 

I’ll go back to when I was at Purdue in the late ’80s, early ’90s, and even then we were starting to talk about how do we create multidisciplinary types of degrees. And there was a level of resistance around that, but there was some accommodation and I was one of those that was able to influence through my counselors in the schools I was in, to how do you create a level of hybrid degree. You now fast-forward to today, and I think Purdue leads the way in that ability to create interdisciplinary engineering. The Daniels School of Business has really elevated that with the business degrees they have, the School of Engineering is continuing to advance that, polytechnic is as well, and I think that is a great way we are beginning to pull those types of degree programs into Wabash, because they have such a well-rounded view of technology, business application, fundamental engineering principles at scale and we think that’s important for where the world’s going. 

Kate Young: 

When you guys think of higher ed’s value, how do you think it’s evolved over the past five to 10 years? And we keep seeing headlines, we’re hearing things that the workforce looks so dramatically different from the past. So what do you think the future of higher ed looks like for students who are entering this new workforce? Matt, we can start with you. 

Matt Butler: 

I think there’s concerns about ROI, and ROI is a function of the sticker cost or the real net price you’re going to pay. It’s also time. Time is not just paying tuition fees, room and board, but it’s also the opportunity cost in which you could be out there earning money and earning experience and then it’s let’s say the return on the investment afterward once you land a career and start advancing. And families and students are rightfully concerned about a lot of that. And I think, because we’ve had such tremendous technological change, a global economy continues to globalize, there’s competitive pressures that perhaps traditional areas aren’t as easy perhaps as they were in the past. I know there’s been a lot of buzz say about computer science, concerns about AI’s impact on that. I would argue that a computer science student here at Purdue has nothing to worry about and they’re getting trained with top-notch faculty and technology. 

So, where I do think there are some areas, also the multidisciplinary that as well, but I think accelerated delivery Purdue in its three-year degree program has really set a national standard. Also, bringing in students when they already have a significant amount of dual credit from high school, the Indiana College Core, which is a 30 credit hour block of gen ed courses. Those students can come in and they can pretty much already be a sophomore and we know also that some of them will graduate quickly. Others will perhaps do a dual degree or a double major, because they still want that four year experience. So lots of options in which you can accelerate attainment and increase attainment for better bang for your buck. I see those are some real trailblazing areas Purdue’s working in. 

Brent Yeagy: 

I think in the way you want to consume the educational process is important and whether it’s Purdue or any higher education institution, has to advance. I think Purdue is doing that, whether it is pure online, whether it’s hybrid and really variations in between. And even thinking about how do I mix online classes with on campus classes to really fit how the individual can best consume it, what’s best for them, their time, their schedule, their family, just the travel back and forth, is for the consumer today to meet them where they’re at, all the institutions have to advance in that level. And I think Purdue is working through that. The addition of Purdue Global is a great example of fitting that need. I have a daughter-in-law that wanted to advance her higher education. That was a path she was able to go down and she’s leveraged that very successfully and it allowed her to do something she wouldn’t have been able to do in a traditional setting. 

Kate Young: 

As the largest logistical equipment manufacturer in the US, Wabash recently partnered with Purdue on a research and development project resulting in a game-changing innovation that could accelerate sustainability in the transportation industry. Brent shares more about this collaboration and the impact a project like this has on students. 

Brent Yeagy: 

Wabash has a relatively long history of working and providing opportunities for students to learn, but typically that’s been done within our factories, our office setting. We’re attempting to adapt to where the world is going and that means that the increased use and demand for alternative energy sources for the powering of equipment is paramount. 

Typically, the equipment that we make is passive, meaning it doesn’t have an engine, so we would think that maybe it doesn’t have a part to play. Well, what we found with working with Purdue and others is that possibly we can harness energy just by the movement of our products going down the road, that we can capture through the vibration or the wind going past it, and we can capture that energy and then we can store it in batteries and make it available for the entire system. When we can do that, we can, for example, in a thermal refrigerated setting, so think about carrying your ice cream down the road. Instead of that being a diesel engine, maybe it’s electric in the future, simply powered by the movement of the trailer going down the road, and that would be game-changing in terms of environmental impact, sustainability cost, and then overall efficiency in that. 

And then we partnered with Purdue, because we think they have the experts and the technology to do it and we now have four or five graduate students that get hands-on multi-year experience. They can work with it across their entire time at Purdue to advance the technology that’s being put into that application. 

Kate Young: 

We’ll link to the full story on this research and development project in our show notes, so be sure to check that out. In June 2025, it was announced that Indiana’s 15 public colleges and universities will freeze in-state undergraduate tuition and mandatory fees for the next two academic years. Indiana governor Mike Braun pointed to success at Purdue, where tuition and mandatory fees have stayed flat for 14 years, while still, “Delivering successfully on the institution’s core mission.” When it comes to college affordability and student debt, how are public institutions in Indiana, and specifically Purdue, addressing these concerns? Here’s Matt. 

Matt Butler: 

Well first when I thought of that, or heard of that and working at the commission and the commission unanimously approved the tuition recommendation, hold it flat. Terrific news for Hoosier students and families, great news for them. Second, as a proud boilermaker, Purdue has set the standard with President Daniels going forward and it’s shown that you can hold costs flat or we can control costs while still delivering an ever-increasingly better product. So that’s the case. 

I would also call attention to the fact that our peer institutions, state institutions have held the line too. Adjusted for between 2014 and 2024, Indiana’s in-state tuition has decreased by 11% in inflation adjusted. So the average tuition to go to a state college, a University of Indiana, is cheaper today than it was 10 years ago. Not many states can say that, especially with our portfolio of institutions. And another thing I would also point out, state lawmakers over decades have invested in state needs-based financial aid. And when it comes to needs-based financial aid, Indiana is in the top five Midwest and in the top 10 nationally in terms of its generosity. So I think those factors of investing, affordability, two years of consistency, families know what they’re getting into, I think it’s just great news. 

Brent Yeagy: 

Just to highlight something there. The question was asked in the context of the state of Indiana, but what Purdue has done with freezing tuition, coupling that with a highly prominent top tier research institution, is the national benchmark. It’s not just the state, it’s the national, which the value that a Purdue student gets today is off the chart. 

Kate Young: 

My colleague and I just at a conference in Chicago and we presented about higher ed podcasting and whenever we say, “Hey, we’re from Purdue,” it is, it’s a national recognized thing, “Haven’t you guys frozen tuition?” 

Brent Yeagy: 

They kind of go, “How are you doing that?” 

Kate Young: 

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So for both of you, from a corporate and then a policy perspective, what makes a degree from Purdue an investment that’s worthwhile, going right back to what you just said, Brent, essentially. 

Brent Yeagy: 

Yeah, I’ll come at it from a different angle, whether it’s business or STEM or health sciences or consumer science, whatever you’re coming at, the ability to get an education at Purdue, where you’re not only being exposed to some of the best thinkers in the world, but your ability to interact with business and real world applications, to access cutting edge facilities, to apply and to do your investigations, to surround yourself in an atmosphere of excellence, is off the chart. And I would also add that the culture at Purdue is distinctly different than other institutions. I don’t want to say this, it’s about doing the work. It’s pragmatic, it’s gritty, and employers love that about Purdue, and it is part of the brand. And so you just, while the piece of paper itself and what you learn is important, it’s all those intangibles that a person walks away with what that Purdue degree, that really not only personally elevates them, but also it’s in the eyes of those that also value that degree. 

Matt Butler: 

I would echo everything Brent just said. I would say that the undergirding of that is Purdue’s land grant mission. I think it’s always had employer and industry applications front of mind, because its key outputs are typically trained and technically competent engineers, healthcare workers, what have you. And then [inaudible 00:14:47] research institution, all of those things that when push comes to shove, the gritty math figures, whatever, have to be done. And as someone who was a liberal arts student here at Purdue, I did minor in biology, but I was pre-med. We know that didn’t pan out. I got to be a doctor, you don’t [inaudible 00:15:00] an airplane. I think that pervades the entire campus in terms of, I remember when I was going to go to Purdue, but both my parents went here and their comment is they described Purdue as no drama. 

Brent Yeagy: 

That’s great what you’re saying. 

Kate Young: 

I love that. 

Matt Butler: 

Or people are just too busy to get in trouble. 

Brent Yeagy: 

That’s right. 

Matt Butler: 

I found that was the case too. I, from my liberal arts perspective and then other students who weren’t necessarily in engineering or science, just sort of fixation to accuracy, to process. I think when I’ve been overseas or in other states, that sort of ethos of Purdue, which is intangible and hard to capture, it speaks for itself, I think. 

Kate Young: 

You know, we previously discussed degrees in educational paths that are more relevant to the modern workforce. Matt, do you think these types of degrees and offerings will change the current educational model for public institutions in Indiana? 

Matt Butler: 

Yes, and thankfully they are already. There’s been a lot of movement on them. I think I mentioned the degree in three. I know Purdue has a, I believe it’s dual plus, which is packaging degrees in which students in technical bachelor of science areas can make it far more manageable to take a bachelor of arts and you’re combining an appreciation say of that humanities or social science to bolster, say coding and AI or medical science. Apprenticeship degrees I think are going to become more of a thing. We’re seeing them more in areas where learning by doing and having practical experience, teachers are a great example, I think you’re going to see more of that in those kind of areas, so students can earn while they’re learning. 

And I think you’re going to see more of, as Brent put it, multidisciplinary hybrid degrees, but you’re going to probably see those come and go or they’re going to have to really revise themselves. They rename themselves as technology shift and employer demand shift. So thankfully we’re seeing a lot of that. And then I think also, nobody’s going to throw their academic program inventory out the window. I mean, the bulk of Purdue’s degrees have been here for decades and rightfully so, but it’s going to be careful curation through program reviews, employer boards, advisory boards, what have you, and the expert faculty, knowing they need to keep abreast of development. Those are some of the things I see that are already happening and are on the horizon. 

Kate Young: 

Brent, what do you think as far as college students, when they’re choosing their majors, they’re figuring out what are my extracurriculars, what clubs should I join? What do you think they should be doing to set themselves up for success through your eyes as a CEO? 

Brent Yeagy: 

I think first the student has to be successful in finding a home at Purdue. They’ve got to make it through all four years, so finding things that resonate with them and not completely overthinking, it’s got to be in the right club or I’ve got to have this leadership position and do all those things. I had one child that was all about feeling good about what he was doing. I had the other one that was very anxious about what she was going to be doing. I really needed something in between. 

And so I think it’s about making sure you get a great fit, you have a great group of people you’re surrounded with, that you’re happy. But once you can check that box, then over the course of your four years, begin to think about how do I focus some of that time into those things that I’m passionate about, that I think is going to translate into a career or an identity area. You don’t have to be perfect, but be active. I think that’s the biggest thing is don’t waste your four years and say, I never plugged in. I have my degree, but I didn’t plug in. Beyond that, I would not try to be overly specific about it. 

Kate Young: 

I think too in the interview process, right, it’s great to be able to talk about maybe you got a 4.0 or something, but hey, I also had these experiences in this club or with these people, or in this leadership position. 

Brent Yeagy: 

And being able to show that you were flexible, you were thoughtful, you were experimental, is just as valuable as saying that I was in this top tier club for four years and I had this leadership position. In today’s world and how dynamic it is, sometimes it’s about are you flexible, are you open? Can you handle challenges? Did you have to shift what you were doing? Being able to think through that and have those answers and interview process that really explain how you navigated your time at Purdue, is a powerful message when you can do it, 

Kate Young: 

You frequently mentor, you recruit, you hire Purdue graduates, so let’s dig into a little bit more on specific things you look for when it comes to students’ resumes and cover letters. 

Brent Yeagy: 

Obviously we’re off the top, we’re looking for degree programs and completion of degree programs that fit the need that we’re searching for. If it’s a hardcore engineering role, we’re looking for an engineer. If it’s a technology application, we’re looking for that level of degree, certified confidence in what that is. Depending on where they’re at with their career and their time spent at Purdue, we’re looking for practical application. Can you show me where you put it to work at scale and what types of problems we you able to solve? 

Now, at the same time, we’re looking for more and more well-rounded individuals. At your time at Purdue or your time in your career between Purdue and maybe the time you’re thinking about joining Wabash, how did you gain other experiences? What did you seek out? Did you look to grow in multiple areas? Are you flexible, are you resilient? And so, we’re going to look and see how did, specifically to Purdue, how did your time here build a more rounded you, that we can leverage in ways that we know that you can succeed in a really, really dynamic world. 

Kate Young: 

In March of 2025, Purdue was named among the nation’s best in establishing value for students and creating job ready graduates for employers. The Forbes New Ivy’s 2025, 20 great colleges employers love ranking, lists Purdue among 10 public and 10 private institutions that are, “Outpacing the Ivy League in the eyes of employers.” Business leaders ranked Purdue a top 10 public university that is stepping up to educate the country’s brightest students and graduating the talent employers seek. Brent and Matt reflects on this ranking gain. Here’s Matt. 

Matt Butler: 

Go back to that land grant angle in terms of the mission is always, has that real world application front of mind when that has to do with the education and training of the students and then say it also has to do with R1 output, the research, the patents, the what have you. I also think that Purdue has for decades, when I was here and I know it was pretty old, before that it’s engineering round table, it’s co-ops invites employers to the campus. They mingle amongst the students and the faculty and getting a co-op or an internship, or those sort of work-based learning and experiential learning opportunities, was just sort of expected for many of the colleges here. I think this is one of the best times to be actually pursuing higher education, despite all the naysayers, because of these employer synergies, these experiential learning opportunities, whether they’re virtual or they’re in person or you’d get to do both. I think that nurtured relationship with employers or with industry groups over decades is probably why employers have ranked the university so highly. 

Kate Young: 

Brent, you have firsthand experience from hiring Purdue grads. 

Brent Yeagy: 

I’ve had the opportunity of going all around the world and whether it’s China Eastern or Western Europe, South America, Central America, and I have always honestly been surprised, no matter how far away I go, when I wear a Purdue shirt or whatever, I am recognized and commented on in the airport in Beijing or Shanghai, or Copenhagen, or wherever I’m at, and might be why I wear it sometimes. When I talk to people about it, Purdue is very, almost first of mind, the legacy of excellence over time always comes out. They just know that. But what I’ve found over the last 10 to 15 years, really starting with Martin Jischke and then now we’ve got President Meng, which had President Daniels in between, and there was a tone of we are excellent. There was that pragmatic, no drama, just do it type of persona that you as a boilermaker get with that degree. It resonates everywhere. No matter what country you’re from, everyone appreciates just, I get to work and I make it happen and that’s all you need to know. And I think Purdue just epitomizes that feeling and people love it. 

Kate Young: 

What about for you, specifically, personally, what skills and tools did you gain during your time at Purdue that’s helped you excel in your extremely successful careers today? 

Brent Yeagy: 

For me, I would just say just problem solving in general, of having to sit down and think about very complex things from multiple dimensions and be comfortable sitting there, figuring it out. I can leverage that in many different disciplines and abstract situations, but it’s that confidence that just give me enough time, I will think through it. I have seen parts of this before, and when I haven’t, I can sit and logically come to a conclusion that I can act on. 

Kate Young: 

We’ve had a lot of Purdue engineering alums and it’s the same story. Matt, what about you? 

Matt Butler: 

I mean, sort of the same way, but from the humanities and social sciences aspects, it was a lot of independent work. In high school you do homework and all of those things, but when it comes to four-year university, that’s a lot of time in the library. People still go to them. That was a lot of time in the library, immersing yourselves in multiple texts to understand differing arguments, understanding them from both perspectives. If you disagree with something and you can’t really make an argument for it, then you probably don’t fully understand that opposing argument. The other one, and I remember you had this as one of the prep questions, I was thinking, oh my goodness, I can’t think of really anything, but I’d say this isn’t unique to Purdue, but the last two years when I was here, I just had a great amount of writing-intensive courses and that has served me very well. Went on to graduate school for my master’s and my doctorate and then every job I’ve had since 2011 has involved writing and writing frequently. 

And they’ve been a reporter, legislative staff, working for a non-profit, worked for the governor’s office and now working at the Commission for Higher Education, different audiences at times, all audiences at times. So I’d say really wrapping your head around something, so you understand it from about every angle you can, I know we have some limitations, that you can explain it off the cuff or in depth, what have you. So I think those were some key things I got from my upper-level courses in the last few years. And then another one I’d add is I mentioned before I had a minor in biology. I had a pretty atypical experience for most of my fellow history majors and liberal arts majors is that I took chem 115, 116, chem two, I took the organic and all of that physics, that has served me well. It served me well when I did my PhD. 

My PhD was in agricultural history, so having that scientific basis, that genetics basis for many things, and it’s just served me well as just a citizen. I think being able to span multiple disciplines with intensive study is something I would really recommend current and prospective Purdue students do, is maybe get a minor completely outside of your college, completely out of sight of like out of STEM, or if you’re out of STEM, then get a minor in STEM. I think you just become so much more well-rounded and it speaks of the critical thinking skills Brent talked about. 

Brent Yeagy: 

I completely agree and I think two things I would add around that is Purdue is a place that you can follow almost any career or path that you want to go down, and at the same time you can learn how big systems and big things work, that allow you to go into the world and just see and understand and process very complex things. And at the same time, maybe you go through your problem solving process, you feel confidence that you can defend your answer, that you can defend your point of view and articulate it and communicate it in a way that maybe it’s a little better than some of the others. I think that is as a very tangible point of value and confidence that allows people to do big bold things when you know that you can stand toe to toe and defend your argument. 

Kate Young: 

We’ve seen the headlines, the current job market, it’s being impacted by economic uncertainty. What words of encouragement would you give to recent college grads or even future students? What advice, and again, encouragement? Because like you said Matt, there’s naysayers out there. What would you say to the younger people out there? 

Matt Butler: 

For recent college graduates? I’d say absolute congratulations. You’ve made it. It’s quite an accomplishment. Don’t diminish it. But just like it’s the cliche at a high school graduation or college commencement, it’s just the next step and there’s probably going to be some sprints and some hills and some pitfalls. For those I know that you read things about how the unemployment rate for recent college graduates has taken an uptick, I think that’s probably transitory and at least I hope so, but I think it is. 

But the thing is get out there both professionally, in your community, socially. I’d say that everything is sort of an audition. If it’s not the job you wanted, there’s only so many things you can control in your life, how hard you work, quality of your work product and how you treat other people. There’s something I found and perhaps Indianapolis is a big little city or however, it’s a small world and there are always people watching even if you don’t think so, and that could lead to your next opportunity. And there typically sometimes in this day and age, there are career change that you never even thought about. I’d say head up and then I’ll go back to how we open the conversation is that the returns to post-secondary study are undeniable. You just have to approach it carefully and thoughtfully. There’s no promised return from an investment, just like there’s no promised return from stocks or equities, what have you. It’s not making the investment, not planning for something after high school is the worst thing you can do. 

Brent Yeagy: 

Whether you are a high school student looking to go to Purdue University, you’re at Purdue University, you’re a recent college graduate, all three of those situations right now are looking what’s the job market going to be? And you hear all different types of things. If you go to Purdue, you remain at Purdue, you get your degree, you are heads and shoulders above the rest in your ability to go out and deal with whatever the world’s giving you. You got to know that. 

You got to be confident in that and not get negatively biased by what you hear. We are not like the rest. There’s your provocative thing. We are not like the rest. We’re better. So lean into it. And to your point, be flexible. Don’t have such a narrow view of what you believe your next step would be, that you walk past that’s just as good. And there’s always the next better decision that you can make, but what you can’t do is stand still and overthink or worry about what’s happening in the moment. You just have to keep moving forward. And if you do that, the Purdue degree will carry you where you want to go. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, so the title of the episode is Purdue is Not Like The Rest, We Are Better. 

Brent Yeagy: 

I would go with that. We’ll make t-shirts. 

Kate Young: 

I love it. Is there anything else that you all would like to share? It was a wonderful conversation. So cool. You two just met today and we’ve had this incredible conversation. 

Matt Butler: 

It’s been a pleasure. It’s also an honor to be invited to something like this as a Purdue alumnus and also as I said, my first podcast- 

Kate Young: 

Yes. 

Brent Yeagy: 

Yeah, you were great. 

Matt Butler: 

But the first of many hopefully. 

Kate Young: 

Yes, absolutely. 

Matt Butler: 

I just say applaud the work you’re doing, telling the story of all the great teaching, learning, innovation, connections with employers and philanthropy outside, off campus, and I know so much of it’s going on on campus, it’s just exciting. It’s like in some ways I miss being here. And I have the joy to be able to work in higher education policy and work regularly almost every day with some individuals who work for the institution. So I’m optimistic. I think with hard work we’re going to only improve our higher education system. And in Indiana I think we’ve got a good head start, and with Purdue, we’ve got a great asset amongst our other institutions. 

Brent Yeagy: 

I think what I would add, building off some of the questions at the end of the podcast, is that it doesn’t matter whether you’re a young person in school, recently graduated, or we’ll call it at the late stages of your career, we are bombarded with bluntly what you talked about earlier, before you got started, click bait and the negativity around what’s happening around you. I think that doing something like this to where you can try to get reality out to people, is wonderful. Specifically when we can do it to Purdue students, Purdue alumni, those that have that affinity for Purdue, so they know not to get overly biased by all those influences, and to really think about what they’ve done, what they’ve accomplished, and know to set some of that to the side and leverage what you have, and just again, we’ll say, just keep moving forward. 

Kate Young: 

Well, we so appreciate your time and thank you so much. It was a pleasure. 

Brent Yeagy: 

It was a pleasure. Thank you. 

Matt Butler: 

Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

We can’t thank Brent and Matt enough for joining us on This is Purdue. These two had just met each other that day of the interview and it was incredible to witness them have a candid conversation about the state of higher education and what Purdue is doing differently when it comes to earning a college degree. You can watch additional video clips of this interview on our podcast YouTube channel, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. We have some great content on there, so go ahead and subscribe while you’re there. And of course, be sure to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart radio, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Fad Boon in collaboration with John Garcia, Zach Mogensen and Ali Cheney. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. 

Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotspa. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshi. And our creative production assistant is Delaney Young. Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. And as always, boiler up. 

Barry Odom: This is Coach Barry Odom and you’re listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Barry Odom: The athletic department can be the front porch of your house because you’re on display. We are, for 12 Saturdays, anywhere in the world, if you have the opportunity to have television or internet, you can watch us play. So the brand is on display and the Purdue logo is for everyone and it’s a strong logo across the world. So in my opinion for our team, we represent something so much bigger than ourselves. 

Kate Young: Welcome back This is Purdue listeners, and thanks for joining us for our first episode of our fall 2025 season. Now, we have a very special guest to kick off this new season. This guest is new to our Boilermaker family and I know many of you are interested in getting to know more about him. He’s a husband, a father, a Midwesterner at heart and a self-proclaimed grill master. More on that later. In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Purdue head football coach, Barry Odom. Coach Odom has a storied history with college football and most recently he was the head coach at the University of Nevada Las Vegas, leading the program to its winning this season in 40 years. Now he’s entering his first season at Purdue, aspiring to also build a championship caliber program here. We dive into his new role and his path to Purdue and we’re getting to know Coach on a more personal level as he discusses his family life with his wife, Tia, and their three children, JT, Garrett and Anna. 

Plus Coach Odom discusses what it’s like to coach his son, Garrett, who is a freshman quarterback for the Boilermaker team. And finally, we dig into the latest NIL news and his vision for the future of the Purdue football program. Coach is disciplined and no-nonsense. He’s also warm and genuine and his values and attitude display exactly what makes our Boilermaker spirit so special. By the way, we shot this interview overlooking the Purdue football practice fields, and you can check out this full video interview with Coach on our podcast YouTube channel, YouTube.com/@ThisIsPurdue. Okay, let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Coach Barry Odom. 

Thanks for having us. 

Barry Odom: It’s kind of a nice view, huh? 

Kate Young: It is. It’s beautiful. 

Barry Odom: Those guys, the grounds crew, best I’ve ever been around. It’s amazing what they do after we finish a practice and it’s like all hands on deck. They go out and like it’s new. It’s amazing. 

Kate Young: The attention to detail is wonderful. 

Barry Odom: Really cool. 

Kate Young: Well, thanks again for taking the time. 

Barry Odom: You bet. Thank you guys. 

Kate Young: You’re on the official university podcast, This is Purdue. Welcome. 

Barry Odom: Awesome. So great. Everything in seven months that I’ve had a chance to experience that has to do with this great university is first class. It’s really amazing. And you look the educational side, the community, the greater Lafayette area, honor to be here, have a chance to represent Purdue and all those that care about it in a way through sport. 

Kate Young: You’re known for bringing discipline, structure, consistency to the football teams you lead. You’re entering your first season at Purdue. Let’s start by diving into what every Boilermaker football fan wants to know. You joined Purdue at a time that we’re striving to rebuild the momentum, right? What do you think it’ll take to experience a quick turnaround and success for Purdue football? 

Barry Odom: If you look at what it takes, number one, it’s about people. That’ll never change. It’s about the organizational structure. It’s about leadership, it’s about alignment. We started seven months ago in a number of things on talking about hope, vision, and belief. And then at some point through your work ethic and through your commitment and trust and love and openness and honesty, there will become some validation. I believe in the values of what makes up Purdue, the people, the hardworking mentality, I believe that still wins today. We get to do it through a game of football. There’s tremendous leadership here. You start at the top with Mung in the president’s office, and outstanding, unbelievable across the world, his impact. And then you go to our director of athletics in Mike Bobinski, the first conversation I had with him when looking at this job, immediately was attracted to his vision, what he thought it would take to get our football program back to the winning ways. 

And every step of the way, those two guys in the leadership and alignment have proven to be true. So I think that’s the first step with that. And then the culture and the organization that you put together in a timely fashion. Nobody, our players, the staff that we brought here, the families, nobody wants to hear, fans, nobody wants to hear that. It’s a rebuild. I will not talk about that to our team. Our expectation is to set a standard every single day that only allows winning habits. And then when you do that and you everybody aligned with that, it becomes who you are. We know that we’re going to be judged on 12 opportunities this fall. It is a results-driven business. We’re judged on results, not effort. So we understand that, and excited about the opportunities that we’re going to create this year. 

Kate Young: I heard you recently in an interview say, “This is our story for the people in this room.” Other people can’t talk about that. The outside people can’t talk about that. So I think that what you just touched on was kind of perfectly putting it as well. 

Barry Odom: Yeah. I think you look at, I don’t want to be defined on what Purdue football did last year. And then I can also go back to three years ago when Purdue was in the Big 10 Championship. I didn’t have anything to do with that either. Neither did this team. We’re only as good as what we create today, and then the body of work leading up to that point. And then tomorrow when we get up, it’s our job to make Purdue football better tomorrow than it was today. And then consistently, if you do that, eventually the results will take care of themselves. 

Kate Young: One day at a time. 

Barry Odom: That’s right. 

Kate Young: So how has your first summer been? What’s it been like here? 

Barry Odom: It’s been great. I lived in Las Vegas. My family and I did the last two years, so I would say much milder here than Vegas. A little slower paced, but it’s been great. The welcoming of the community and the state and all the people have been so great to myself and my family. We’ll be forever thankful for that. I think it’s a great college community that you can feel as the students start to come back to campus, you can feel it starting to become a little more alive. I’ve always loved living in college towns. There’s a different feel and a different vibe and a different energy. We’ll capture that and run with it to help our football program. 

Kate Young: Coach Odom is a former college football player himself. He was a starting linebacker for the University of Missouri in the nineties and helped the school make two bowl trips. He also served as the team captain during his senior season. Later, he went on to coach for multiple football programs, including UNLV and the University of Arkansas. So what lessons and experiences from his time playing and coaching is he using in his role here today at Purdue? 

Barry Odom: I think we all learn from our experiences. Some are really good experiences. Some are setbacks. When you’re open and really vulnerable with yourself on, okay, what we did worked, what did we do that we came up short. There’s always reasons on why you either had success or you didn’t, or you remove the ego from it, really get down to the core of what worked and maybe what do you need to improve on. So I think I’ve been able to take pieces with me from not only as a player from the leadership that I had a chance to play under, and then I was an assistant coach for a number of years, and then became a coordinator and then a head coach, and then step back into the coordinator’s role and then another head coaching opportunity. So you take experiences and pieces from all of that, and then my belief, then you blend those things together. And every single team is different. This team that I’ve currently got right now through the first part of fall camp, we’re certainly different than last year’s team. 

PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:09:04] 

Barry Odom: Through the first part of fall camp, we’re certainly different than last year’s team. It doesn’t mean we’re better or worse, just every team’s different. Every group has different motivational beliefs. You’ve got to find ways… We’re educators, you’ve got to find ways to teach kids, teach young men, and then you’ve got to galvanize the group together as quickly as you can. You got to get everybody on the same page. 

So, I will reach back through experience that I’ve had, this is year 26 for me in coaching, from all of those years. And then when I even go back as a player, there’s some of the things that still are shown to me in these experiences to be true. 

Kate Young: Part of this is Purdue, we love having our athletics guests on, but we want to get to know you as a person. You seem very close with your family. You have three children, your wife, Tia. What has it been like to be back in the Midwest with your family? 

Barry Odom: It’s been great. Living in a college town, just the feel of that, this feels like home. My wife, Tia and I, have been married 25 years. We’ve met our sophomore year in college. She’s from a small farming town in the state of Missouri. I’m from a rural town in Oklahoma. We lived in Columbia, Missouri for a number of years, Fayetteville, Arkansas, and West Lafayette, it feels like home. Our kids, we’ve got three kids, two sons in college, and a daughter that’s going to be in the fifth grade, they have really embraced the opportunity to be here and it’s been great for our family. 

Kate Young: What has it been like with Garrett playing for you on the team this year? 

Barry Odom: Yeah, it’s harder on him than it is me, I would say. He goes in the locker room after a tough day at practice and everybody’s talking about the head coach who, well, that’s also his dad, so it’ll be a good experience for him. 

I had a chance to coach our oldest son at UNLV, he played for me for two years. So a little bit of that I’m using, and as close that our kids are in age, our two sons, they’re different as well. So, the approach in parenting, there’s times that I need to be the head coach and then there’s other times when I’m talking to him, obviously away from the office, that I’ve got to be dad. He has handled it really, really well. When they were growing up playing little league baseball and travel basketball and all those things, I always made an excuse that I was too busy to be their coach and I couldn’t get away, and the time commitment that it took, I didn’t feel like I could do it the right way. So, I never really saw them in that capacity as growing up for them. 

At that time, I was the head coach at Missouri, and if this didn’t work out, I’ll never take this opportunity for granted to have a chance to be not only their coach, but also my son sitting in the room, but also a little bit you look at… And I don’t want to minimize that question, because it is dear to my heart. As a coaching staff, we will always have the approach if we coach our team and our position groups just like they’re our son, then we know that we are doing right by them. And I believe in that, and I believe somebody across the country has trusted us with their son, we’ve got to pour into them. And if you do that in the right way and build a strong relationship, it’s so much bigger than the three and a half hours on Saturday afternoon that we get to go compete. 

Kate Young: That’s so special. So, your little one, Anna, is she a team helper? Does she like to be around? Does she stay out behind the scenes? 

Barry Odom: She could. My wife has done such a great job over the years on bringing the kids by practice. I think it’s most professions, they take time, you’re away from home. Coaching’s no different than that, so she’s always been able to bring them by practice, and when Anna shows up to practice she fits right in. You could say she’s grown up in a locker room and around it. She gets it at the age of 10, has never met a stranger, so it’s been pretty cool to watch her, how that fits in with a young girl and she looks at the team as her family. 

Kate Young: Oh, that’s so fun. You’ve been coaching for many years now. Are there any traditions that your family celebrates on a game day or any lucky shirts or breakfast, or- 

Barry Odom: Yeah, I think you look at, for us, I don’t know how my wife does it, throughout the years we have so many people, fortunately that, really close friends or family, that always come to games, whether it’s home or away, and somehow she gets it organized and handles it. I’m sure there are things that go on behind the scene about getting the tickets distributed, parking passes, hotels, food before and after the game. And we will have 20 plus every game, sometimes closer to 50. She just handles it. 

I’m sure they’ve got some routines that I don’t have any idea about. I know that we’ll always forever be thankful for that, because the game of sport brings people together. It’s a really small fraternity when you really look at it, the longer you’re in the business on bringing people together, and we’ve been fortunate over the years to… We’ve got a lot of really close friends that care about, take the title, take all that away, they care about how real friendship should be and that’s certainly special to us. 

Kate Young: Any boilermaker traditions? 

Barry Odom: We’re going to start. I know obviously the season is getting close, so she’s getting the logistics down on what that’s going to look like. It’s hard to win, but man, winning is fun. After this first game, we’ll be one and O, and we’re going to start something that will hold true for a number of years and a lot of wins. 

Kate Young: You heard it here first. One and O- 

Barry Odom: That’s the plan. 

Kate Young: … to start off the season. Coach Odom was born in Lawton, Oklahoma and raised in Maysville, Oklahoma with his parents and two brothers. I asked coach what his first memories of football were. 

Barry Odom: I was really fortunate because we lived less than an hour away from the University of Oklahoma’s campus. Early in, well, before I was born, my dad was a high school coach and then he got out of coaching and in another line of work, so sports were never forced on us at all, as I’ve got an older brother and a younger brother, so I was the middle. Was never forced on us, but also they wanted us to be involved in something, whether it was music or sport or activities, just to be involved. 

And if we were going to do them, we wanted to be competitive and you wanted to do as best as you could at it. And I, in a small town that I grew up in, I was always chasing my older brother and his friends or trying to compete with them. I gravitated towards sport. One of my best childhood friends, his dad was the high school football coach, and they had access passes to the University of Oklahoma, to practices and they had invite the high school coaches. So, I got to tag along a lot at an early age with that. 

And at that time, Coach Barry Switzer was the head coach at University of Oklahoma and they were having great success. They had won a number of national championships and I got to see up close and personal. That I remember really vividly in the fourth grade being able to go on the field and then in the locker room after the game. And that was really impactful for me to understand and seeing something so much bigger that I knew that even imaginable could become true. 

And then our parents, they always provided us opportunities. I ran summer track as well, and we would go all over the country doing that. So it exposed me to sport in a lot of different way, and also allowed me to see how important being able to have a routine and the consistency of, if you want to try to have success, on what that took. 

Kate Young: You’re known for that old school approach to football. How were you molded by this growing up? 

Barry Odom: I think just the values of growing up in a small town. Work ethic was so important, honesty, determination, grit, those things were just in the fabric of the community that I grew up in, certainly in our house. I think it also, when I went to the University of Missouri as a player, that’s how we turned that program around. There’d been a number of years that they had not had success. Larry Smith was the head coach when I was a player, and those are the values that he built the program on. 

I saw how it worked and then we turned into consecutive ball games. As a player, there’s a formula for that, I believe in that. Then I got to work for a guy named Gary Pinkle for a number of years who had the same values of what it looked like consistently to build a program. So, those are really, I’d say, what I was brought up on and saw how it worked and then had been able to put into action and it still holds true today. 

Kate Young: How do you picture that elevating Purdue’s program with those values and morals? 

Barry Odom: I think that’s what defines Purdue, I think what defined the fabric of what this place is. That’s why when the job came open, I was so attracted to it because, number one of leadership of Mike, but also of the Midwest region geographically. Years ago when I was a head coach at Missouri, we played a non-conference game here in 2018. It was a night game and I saw what Ross-Ade was. I’ve always had that in my mind, and then when I learned that this job was coming open, I was in full pursuit. 

PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:18:04] 

Barry Odom: I learned that this job was coming open, I was in full pursuit. I believe in this place because of the values of the people, and I believe it can be a consistent winner at a high level. 

Kate Young: On a fun note, I’ve read that you like to cook. I believe it’s a direct quote that- 

Barry Odom: I like to eat. So in turn… 

Kate Young: Well that’s easy. Okay. 

Barry Odom: I do like to cook, good food. 

Kate Young: You said that you grill steaks better than St. Elmo’s which is a bold statement. 

Barry Odom: I’m going to go on record. That was a joke. St. Elmo’s is the best. I took a lot of heat for that comment. 

Kate Young: That’s why we’re asking you. 

Barry Odom: I’ll rival any steakhouse, but always St. Elmo’s, all the thing, the tradition, the history, unbelievable. As a family the time that you get to spend together, we enjoy, we’re normally outside around a pool and there’s usually a grill going and I enjoy that. My wife is the best cook I’ve ever been around, so I try to at least assist every now and then when I can. 

Kate Young: What’s your go-to meal to cook for the family? 

Barry Odom: If I had time and all three kids were at the house, if they said, “Hey dad, make this,” it would just be a steak. Wife would do the sides and it turns out pretty good. 

Kate Young: So you’re like a grill master. 

Barry Odom: I would say a grill master. Yeah. 

Kate Young: Love it. Okay, so refocusing on your time in Missouri, the grit, the discipline, we talked about, so vital to the Midwestern culture. How do you think that influences your strategy and your mentality here as the head coach? 

Barry Odom: Number one, it’s about the organization that we have built, the staff, the support staff, the assistant coaches, how we’re going to recruit to Purdue, the values that takes, I mean, it’s got to be a great fit. To come here educationally. The process of how we practice, not just during the season, but it’s a 12-month plan. And if you really, really like football, if you like the process of what that looks like, then this is going to be a wonderful place and we’re going to win a lot of games doing it that way. 

But it’s not for everybody. That is society, in my opinion. In the world of the Instagram society, that’s not how long sustained success is built in my opinion. It’s over time and it’s you’re going to have some setbacks, you’re going to have some great moments, but the ability to put blinders on and just keep moving forward, that’s what’s going to build this program. 

Kate Young: Speaking of recruiting, you were the director of recruiting at Missouri. How did this experience kind of shape how you look at recruiting today? 

Barry Odom: As our time goes on and things change, staffs become larger in numbers. When I was made the director of recruiting at the University of Missouri it was a department of one. It was me. So you learn by sometimes things you didn’t do well. Coach Pinkel at that time was, I mean he had a process and an approach on everything from recruiting to marketing to the X’s and O’s of the game and that blueprint are still some of the ways that we approach it today. So I feel like I know it in detail and very selective on how we’re going to go recruit in different areas of the country, whether high school recruiting or junior college or portal or four year transfer, whatever that looks like. We still have characteristics that we try to hit in every guy that we want on our team and in our program. So I think those experience, although they have changed over time, it’s still at the core of how we’re going to recruit. 

Kate Young: So speaking to your players today, sophomore offensive lineman, Ethan Trent, who’s the younger brother of the late Tyler Trent, received a scholarship during a recent spring practice. We’ll link that video for our viewers and listeners in the show notes. But what did that mean to you and what do you think that meant to the team to give that scholarship out? 

Barry Odom: Yeah. Normally, and I said this, I have given and awarded a number of walk-on scholarships over the years. I have never done it in a public setting. It’s always this either been in my office or a meeting room because you always look at, number one, he earned it. But then you look at the other guys on the roster that have also worked really hard that are walk-ons and they didn’t get awarded the scholarship so I never wanted this single out. 

But in this case was a little bit different to me. Number one, the first day I got the job and met with the team here, and then I went through and met with everybody that was still on the roster and it weren’t that many at the time because most other guys had left. But Ethan sat down in the office as genuine and confidently as he could, just looked me straight in the eye and said, “I’m going to be your hardest worker.” He said, “All I’m asking for is an opportunity.” I gave him a word that we would do that from the day we started, I think January 13th with our workouts, he’s been a great leader. He has given his max effort every single day. He cares so deeply about this university and program, and then also he’s a pretty good football player. 

So all those things combined, it was exciting to be able to reward him for that. He earned every step of the way. And then I knew that the team, I could watch as we started in January the team gravitate and follow his leadership, not only vocally, but by example, and I knew that the team would rally around that opportunity and what a great moment it was. 

Kate Young: We’ve had the Trent family on This is Purdue and we’re just so happy for Ethan. 

Barry Odom: Yeah, that’s awesome. 

Kate Young: What do you think the overall attitude and motivation that you want to instill in the team? How will that set Purdue Football apart from other Big 10 schools? 

Barry Odom: We understand that this program works. I don’t say that arrogantly, I’m just confident in what it is and our guys. They will have success because of the habits and the preparation and the work that they put in. And then the challenge is can you do it every single day? I have talked to them more recently about every habit that we have is creating and is exposed on game day and whether they’re winning habits that’s going to get exposed and if they’re not, that’s going to get exposed as well. I think our guys are understanding that. They see the proof in that. 

And then also then the challenge becomes, can you do it every single day? And when you do it, then you can go into the stadium, you can go into Ross-Ade or whoever we’re playing, and then it’s a nameless, faceless opponent. The opponent is the guy looking back at you in the mirror. Can you prepare? Are you willing to do that? Are you disciplined enough to do that every single day? And if you are, then game days should be exhilarating because you can go play free and play confident and play fast. The results take care of themselves. I believe the more people, the quicker we can get into that mindset in the organization, that is going to set us apart. 

Kate Young: So hot off the press, hard, smart, tough, our new Coach Odom T-shirt. For our YouTube viewers, you can see it. For our listeners, I have a special code for you. What inspired the saying? Tell us the behind the scenes of this motto. 

Barry Odom: In the world of college football, do I get a NIL deal with that? I didn’t sign any paperwork on that. 

Kate Young: I’ll check on that. 

Barry Odom: Yeah, get back to me on that. 

So I was an assistant coach. I was coaching the secondary at University of Missouri mid 2000s, a guy named Justin Fuente who grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I knew we were the same graduating high school class. He went to the University of Oklahoma, played quarterback, transferred to Murray State, and we had kept in touch. And then I was a high school coach right out of college and he was coaching at Illinois State at the time. He recruited my school. So we just kind of had ways that we stayed in contact. He was a running backs coach at TCU and got the head coaching job at the University of Memphis. So Justin called and asked if I wanted to interview to be the defensive coordinator there. 

So I was a position coach at Missouri. The next step for me in my mind was, okay, I’m ready to be a coordinator. Let’s go try to find a job. To do that at that time, Memphis was about as low as you could be as far as success in college football. It was 2011. So I interviewed and got the job. When I went to work for Coach Fuente, he developed those three qualities, that saying, hard, smart and tough. And then the qualities that go within that on the discipline and the structure and all the different things. It’s just an easy, quick way to give a point to your team and then you can go as detailed as you want about what each one of them means and why that will prove to be successful for us. 

So we built that program. I was there for three years. One of the most rewarding three years I’ve ever had a chance to be a part of in coaching because of Coach Fuente’s leadership. It always rings true to me on those things and qualities that it takes to be successful, not just in the sport of football, but academically and socially and in life. The third year we were there, we won 10 plus games, won our conference and we flipped the program. And then I left and went back to the University of Missouri. He got the Virginia Tech job. But I’ve always, I’ve used it. So credit goes back to him on really, he taught me what that looked like. I guess I would have to share part of that NIL with Coach Fuente. 

Kate Young: The deal needs to be shared. 

PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [00:27:04] 

Barry Odom: … have to share part of that NIL with Coach Fuente. 

Kate Young: The deal needs to be shared. 

Barry Odom: That’s right. 

Kate Young: So speaking of the NIL, this is timely news here, on June 6th this year, the ruling of the House versus the NCAA settlement began allowing direct payments from schools to athletes. How has that changed your job? 

Barry Odom: The world of college football, just with the rules, have changed more in the last two years than probably the last 25 combined. I’m a firm believer in student athletes receiving some benefit, I think that’s important. When you look at the number of dollars that are brought in every single year through sport, the ability to be able to distribute that is important. I also think there are things within the rules that we need to slow down on just a little bit. The education piece is so important, on financial literacy, paying taxes, a number of things on budgeting money, so we do all those things. 

For a team, I believe in being able to spread the wealth, so to speak, and I think that is healthy when you’re able to do that. I think there’s some incentive-based things on ability to connect with the community and assist in being a great member of the community, academically, responsibility, longevity in the program, retention of your student athletes. All those things go into how we’re setting up the opportunity for our kids to make money, and I think we’re slowly moving in the direction with some rules on putting guardrails on what it really needs to look like. We’re still a little ways away, in my opinion, on really having structure of what everybody in the country is doing. Somebody’s always trying to find a way around the rule. If we all just do what the rules are and get the rules set, number one, and do what they are, it’ll be healthy for the game of football. 

Kate Young: You talked about Mike Bobinski and his leadership earlier, so with major support from him and the entire athletics program, how do you see ruling and revenue sharing increasing the team and players’ competitive edge on and off the field? 

Barry Odom: The great thing in the Big 10 conference, Mike has said, and we continue to take this approach, we’re not going to take a back seat to anybody in this world, that I think it will even the playing field. As you look at college sport now, on the way that things are distributed, there’s got to be rules in place for it to be the same for everyone, and when we do that, it’ll help us out, because cost of living here for a student athlete is certainly much better than living in Los Angeles, for example. So there’s ways that creatively we can find advantages, and we’re working every single day to find a way to get that done. 

Kate Young: Purdue announced its Victories and Heroes campaign earlier this year. It’s the largest Purdue fundraising campaign to date, and we want to raise $4 billion by early 2030. How do you see this campaign and the donor engagement benefiting the team and the long-term success? 

Barry Odom: You look at the educational experience, certainly at Purdue, it’s different than most places, but the 10 square miles or so that Purdue University is sitting on, there’s nothing like it in the world, and the more that we can pour into impacting students in this case, the better our society is going to be. Football plays a small part of that, because if we can create momentum and excitement, that is going to help kick off the school year, because we’re the first sport that plays. 

I’ve often said, and some look at it with a frown, and then others, once they take time to process it, your football program, your athletic department, if you look at the university in total, the athletic department can be the front porch of your house, because you’re on display. We are, for 12 Saturdays, anywhere in the world, if you have the opportunity to have television or internet, you can watch us play. So the brand is on display and the Purdue logo is for everyone, and it’s a strong logo across the world. So in my opinion, for our team, we represent something so much bigger than ourselves, so much bigger than the 2025 football program at Purdue. We represent everyone, whether you like football or not or sport, we’re still that brand is out there and I feel the responsibility, the deep responsibility, to put a football team in position to represent all those people in winning ways. 

Kate Young: I love that. That’s a fantastic point, that athletics is the front door of Purdue as a home, right? 

Barry Odom: You look at on the last Saturday in August, there’ll be close to 60,000 people that are cheering for the Boilermakers. That is impactful when you look at the difference you can make by playing winning football. And then, that excitement and that momentum is captured and it carries on to the next week, and if you do it right, then it bleeds out through the entire country of the people that care about Purdue. 

Kate Young: We’ve talked about your background, your family, your leadership style, what’s a final message that you have for Boilermaker football fans out there? 

Barry Odom: I’m honored to be the head coach here. As you gain experience, the opportunities that come with sitting in the chair as the head coach, I’ve got tremendous vision, belief, and also responsibility to represent them the right way. We’re going to play in a way with our style of football that will resonate with the Purdue Faithful. We will win, that’s going to happen. I need their support, unwavering support, and it’s been that way for seven months and I know it’s going to continue. We need to turn Ross-Ade into one of the toughest places to play in college football. I know I’ve got a job to do to get our team ready, honored to represent them, we’re going to do it the right way. Boiler up. 

Kate Young: I just bought my Purdue IU 100th Old Oaken Bucket game tickets yesterday, I’m super excited. 

Barry Odom: I’ll be there. 

Kate Young: I’m glad you will be. 

Barry Odom: Friday after Thanksgiving. 

Kate Young: Friday night. 

Barry Odom: Friday night. 

Kate Young: I’m excited. 

Barry Odom: What a great scene that’s going to be. 

Kate Young: I made the mistake of marrying a Hoosier, so it’s a house divided. 

Barry Odom: Somebody’s got to. 

Kate Young: Well, Coach, thank you again, it was a pleasure having you. Anything else that you want to tell our listeners? 

Barry Odom: No, I appreciate you guys. 

Kate Young: Absolutely. 

Barry Odom: It’ll be here quick. 

Kate Young: It will be. Wow, we are so thankful Coach Odom gave us his time and joined us on This is Purdue to kick off our fall season. Right after the interview, we gifted Coach with his very own special shirt featuring his motto, “Hard, smart, tough.” And remember, you can get your own coach Barry Odom T-shirt by using code THISISPURDUE for 20% off a single item at the official Purdue team store. If you want to see the T-shirt and other bonus video clips from this episode, go check out our podcast YouTube channel, youtube.com/@thisispurdue, and while you’re there, please hit that subscribe button. We’re wishing Coach Odom and the entire Purdue football program the best of luck this season. Boiler up. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Thad Boone, in collaboration with Zach Mogensen, Alli Chaney and Matt Kerkhoff. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. And our creative production assistant is Dalani Young. Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. And as always, Boiler up. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

This is Jeanne Boyd, and you’re listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators, who are these Boilermakers. Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni, taking small steps toward their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Sports don’t happen in a vacuum. And even some of the events that surround sports, it is so interdisciplinary. One of the pieces that’s going to set us apart is the fact that we’re going to rely on industry experts to help us build that curriculum. We’re going to stay not just on trend but ahead of the trend. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Jeanne Boyd, Executive Director of Sport Management and Senior Advisor to the Provost at Purdue University. Jeanne is leading Purdue’s new master’s degree program in sport management, an interdisciplinary program with courses taught at both the West Lafayette and Indianapolis locations. That includes hands-on opportunities with Purdue Athletics, Indiana Sports Corp, and other industry leaders. The program starts this fall of 2025 and will be housed in the College of Health and Human Sciences with offerings led by the College of Science and Department of Computer Science. Jeanne discusses the wide variety of careers students can pursue in the sports industry from sport marketing, sport analytics, organizational leadership, ticketing, sales, sponsorships, and venue management, plus sport analytics and AI in technology and sport. This new program reflects Purdue’s commitment to meeting workforce demands and preparing students for future career success in a dynamic and evolving industry. 

Jeanne is also a veteran with national respect in the sports industry. She previously spent over a decade as the managing director of the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship at the NCAA. It’s safe to say she knows a thing or two about March Madness and the behind-the-scenes work it takes to put on a massive event like that. We’re diving into all of this and more in today’s episode. Here’s my conversation with Jeanne. 

Jeanne, thank you so much for joining us on This is Purdue. We’re delighted to have you and talk to you today. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Hey, thank you so much for inviting me. This is really special. I’m excited. 

Kate Young: 

We’re excited to have you. You are the executive director of Purdue’s new master’s program in sport management. This is taught at both West Lafayette campuses and Indianapolis campuses, and there’s so many hands-on things that you’re going to tell us about with the program. We’re partnered with Purdue Athletics, Indiana Sports Corporation, other sports industry leaders. We’re excited to jump into that, jump into your personal journey in the sports world, but first things first. 

How did you come to Purdue? And tell us a little bit about your role here. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

I was so fortunate to be able to work at a high level of college athletics. The highest level, actually. From undergrad, I was at a very large SEC institution, and then I went to another SEC institution, which was large, then a conference office which was also Division I, and then the national office. And at some point in time, though, you start thinking about your position in life. How do you give back? When do you give back? And the responsibility to give back. And I felt that this was a perfect opportunity to do that. 

That, plus you take into consideration just the academic success that is unmatched here at Purdue. The fact that you have an athletic department which is unbelievably successful. You have a brand that is nationally and internationally recognized, and also our Purdue and Indianapolis campus. It just felt like all the stars were aligned, and it was going to be a perfect opportunity for me. 

Kate Young: 

What are you most excited about for this role? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

I’m surprised by how excited I am. I’m really excited about the interdisciplinary collaboration. Sports don’t happen in a vacuum. And even some of the events that surround sports, it is so interdisciplinary. I was thinking as I was preparing for today that, if you gave me a specific discipline or major at Purdue, I could make a tie to every single one. It doesn’t matter what it is. Veterinary science. Bomb dogs. Agricultural, where you had your turf management. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes- 

Kate Young: 

The Cubs. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. Amazing. It is just such an interdisciplinary effort. I think that that’s what makes it special. 

Kate Young: 

And I know we’ll get into this, but a lot of people, I think, talk about the glitz and glamour of sports, and there’s so many behind-the-scenes roles that are so important and are new and that didn’t exist 10 years ago probably. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

That’s very true. 

Kate Young: 

We’ll dive into that. Sports is such a fast-growing industry. It generates billions of dollars in Indiana, and it’s expected to grow 11% nationwide by 2033. 

What should students be excited about with this new master’s degree program? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

We’ve worked with industry experts to help us build this. And at the end of the day, we think we’ve built something that is innovative. It’s forward-thinking. It addresses the fact that sport, not just college sport but sport across the board, is ever-changing. I don’t know if this is because I’m getting older, but it feels like time is going by quicker, but it is in a perpetual state of change. It addresses that. 

It’s a 36-hour residential program. And courses, as you mentioned, will be taught in both West Lafayette and down in Indianapolis. And one of the things that I think is going to set us apart is, once students are accepted into the program, we’re going to sit down with them and conduct an in-depth interview to find out their area of specialty or interest or, again, just area of, again, almost specialization. 

Every student’s going to have to complete six courses of foundational knowledge, and those are all housed in HHS. And those include things like sport management and sport business, business law, business communication, things of that nature that, regardless of what area of specialization you go into, there’s an application that’s there. 

But then after that, every student’s roadmap is customized to their area of interest. And we’ll get to the point that maybe somebody doesn’t know which way they’re going to go, and that’s okay. But if they do know their way to go, they have four additional courses that they have to take that are electives outside of the department that will be tailored again to their specific area of interest. And then they have 450 hours of hands-on work where we’ve partnered with industry partners and university departments here to also match those areas of interest. 

For example, if somebody comes in, and in their interview they say, “Hey, I would love to be a sport information director,” they’d have to take those six courses that, again, apply to everybody. But then those four courses … They might take something like public relations, public speaking, that I did not take that I would wish at this moment that I would’ve taken. Communications. And then maybe a data analytics and sport class and an AI and technology and sport class. And then those 450 hours will also be targeted in the sport information world. And again, we’ll work with our industry partners to make those opportunities available. 

Kate Young: 

It sounds like you’re zeroing in on what they’re passionate about, but then if they don’t know, there are paths for those people who don’t know either. Right? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Right. And you know what? If you come in as a generalist, and you have no idea which direction you want to go, we’ll be able to just start them off somewhere, wherever they might think they have an inkling. And you know what? If that doesn’t work, that’s okay because I think you learn oftentimes just as much about what you don’t like or where you don’t want to go. And it’s not necessarily meaning that it’s a negative experience, but you can say, “Hey, I’m not really … I don’t love kids. I don’t want to be around kids. I do not want to be a high school teacher,” whatever it may be. But you learn just as much from that, so we will redirect that. Yes. 

Kate Young: 

Downtown Indy is such a special place. It’s the amateur sports capital of the world. We have the WNBA All-Star Game coming up this summer. We have the 2026 NCAA Final Four in Indy again. It’s home to the Colts, the Fever, the Pacers. 

Why should students be excited about leveraging Indy and their position in the sports industry when it comes to this degree? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Indianapolis has created such a special opportunity and almost an ecosystem that doesn’t exist anywhere else. There’s a lot of different components to this. The first component is, well, what makes them set themselves apart? The first thing is, going back in history, in 1979 … Was anybody even alive in 1979 in this room? 

Kate Young: 

Two? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Two. Three? They created the first sport commission in the United States. Since then, it’s been setting the tone of, how did these large cities, usually, attract and also host these large-scale events? They’ve really set the tone for every other city in the world. There’s this historical significance. 

The second piece that sets Indianapolis apart is that they have world-class facilities. Everything is walkable, is the third piece. And they also have all these tremendous hotels and restaurants. The other piece is the fact that we have now a campus down there in Indianapolis. All those things together make for a perfect almost ecosystem. In a sense, I think of it as, if you wanted to be in film, it doesn’t matter if you’re an actor, a director, a producer, or if you’re a camera person or in special effects. You’re going to Hollywood. Right? 

Kate Young: 

Going to LA. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

That’s exactly right. To back up, the other thing that Indianapolis has is just an unmatched level of direction or leadership. Patrick Talty there at the Sports Corp, he understands kind of the broader picture and all of the things that are needed to host and support these events. Again, they’ve got almost, again, a broader sense of the economic impact and the infrastructure and things that are needed and the lasting effects that hosting these types of event brings with it. 

Anyway, if you are … Again, it doesn’t matter what your area of specialization is. If you want to be in film, you’re going to Hollywood, and that’s what they’re creating in Indianapolis. If you want to be in sports, Indianapolis is the place to be. 

Kate Young: 

I’ll never forget … I’m from Fort Wayne. Smaller than Indy. And I went to my first NCAA Final Four. Maybe it was in 2010. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. Yes. Butler’s run. Butler’s run. Loved it. 

Kate Young: 

And it was just this whole the vibes of the city and how hospitable Hoosiers are, right? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

There were so many pieces and parts that I was just so proud to now be living in Indy and be a part of that. It’s such a special place. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

And you should be proud of it. I mean, again, in my previous role as the managing director of the Men’s Final Four, I had, again, the privilege to work across all cities that submitted bids. They were able to host the event. I remember as a part of the post-tournament evaluation that we conduct with all the Final Four teams plus the host city to basically say, “Hey, what can we approve upon? How can we do things better? What issues came up that were not detailed in our directions or bid specifications?” And I talked to the person who ran all the volunteer stuff, and I said, “Coming into this again, what set them apart?” And it was very clear that it’s this really nice balance of knowledgeable staff. They’ve hosted all of these events, and they do it really, really well. Mixed with an interest in almost an evolution or an evolvement of the event. As events continue to grow and whatnot, they’re open to all of those things, but also preserving the Hoosier hospitality just made such a special combination. 

When I worked for the Final Four, I was also the main point of contact for the NABC, which is the National Association of Basketball Coaches, and they host their yearly convention in conjunction with the Final Four. You had basketball coaches coming in from Divisions I, II, III, high school coaches from all over the country, and they have a board of directors that at the end of the Final Four, they submit these recommendations for future years, and they wanted the Final Four to … Can we set up an opportunity where it rotates between two specific cities? And one of those was Indianapolis. And I had to gently explain that there’s a little bit of taxing. It’s a heavy load. It’s a heavy load in a sense of personnel and volunteerism and all of those things, but there’s also a financial heavy load, so we do need to spread it around a little bit. But based on their experience only … Again, these are folks that are coming in from all around the country. They wanted to just narrow it down to two different cities, and Indianapolis being one of those. 

Kate Young: 

We know Indy is special. West Lafayette is also special. The program here on campus in West Lafayette will be housed right next to Purdue Athletics. 

What does that mean for students? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Oh, my gosh. Yes, we are in Lambert, which is connected through a tunnel right directly to Mackey. Those students who decide to come and experience the program from a West Lafayette perspective gives them the opportunity to get behind the scenes to, again, one of the most respected and successful athletic programs in the country. 

Again, not only being connected physically, but we do have a great partnership with Purdue Athletics that will offer these students a behind-the-scenes look at a wide variety of opportunities or what are potential jobs. I don’t think people understand the depth and breadth of the different opportunities that are available. In my mind, if you think about sport management, you might think about coaching or essentially managing, whatever that may be, but I would encourage folks to take a minute and look at our team link that’s there on Purdue Athletics website to see the depth and breadth of opportunities because it is crazy, but it’ll give them a behind-the-scenes look at what opportunities are available. 

Also, an opportunity to be connected with those professionals because they’ll be guest speakers in our classroom. They’ll serve on a board that’s helping us continuously look at the curriculum and make sure that it is evolving and keeps up with trends and things of that nature. It’s going to be fun. 

Kate Young: 

With things like the NIL in the news everywhere now, this increased regulation at the professional level of sports, how will this degree program at Purdue support this need for flexibility in an industry that’s always changing? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

You’re exactly right. It is changing every day. I feel for the commissioners and the athletic directors and the NCAA and all of those that are involved from an administrative perspective, that it’s changing constantly, and it’s almost like they’re whipping in the wind. 

I think one of the pieces that’s going to set us apart is the fact that we’re going to rely on industry experts to help us build that curriculum. We’re going to stay not just on trend but ahead of the trend. Not only will they be involved from an advisory perspective, but they’re also going to serve as, in some cases, adjunct professors. Guest speakers. They’ll also serve as mentors and more of those types of tangential touch points with our students. They’ll oversee kind of … 

Again, we talked about the hands-on experience and the 450 hours that they have to complete. They’re also providing those opportunities. They’ll give feedback on job performance and what’s needed. Because actually right now there’s a lot of conversation about there being a little bit of a disconnect between when folks come out of graduation versus what the industry needs. These folks, again, being so well-connected with them and being essentially friends, they’re going to allow us and provide feedback to help us bridge that gap or close that gap. 

Kate Young: 

Before coming to Purdue, we touched on this a little bit, but you spent over a decade leading operations as the managing director of the NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball Tournament. I’m sure a lot of our listeners are excited to hear some more behind-the-scenes- 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Oh, boy. 

Kate Young: 

… details of that job and what that entails. Tell us about your path to the NCAA and what led you on that journey and through that role. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Looking back to undergrad … And I think a lot of your guests that have come on the podcast have said that their journey wasn’t linear. That’s certainly the case for me. I started out as an accounting major. Well, I love numbers, I love money, but that did not work for me. I was like, “This is so boring.” Then I shifted to being a business major. That didn’t work either. And then I was in education. And again, as looking back, that didn’t seem linear at the time, and I felt like I was kind of in this weird place, and my parents certainly didn’t think it was very logical at the time. 

But looking back, sport management has elements of all of those things. You’re preparing budgets. You’re doing organizational leadership, learning how to communicate with folks. There’s an educational component in a sense that, with a local organizing committee, you had all of these meetings where you would educate them on what’s needed and what we need. Here are all the logistics of it. It’s just so multifaceted and so multidisciplinary. 

Up until the day my dad passed away, every time I called, and I had been directing the Men’s Final Four for eight years, he would say, “Don’t tell me. You called me to say you changed your major.” I was like, “Dad, I have a PhD.” 

Kate Young: 

We’re too far down now. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Right. Right. Again, it wasn’t linear. It wasn’t logical. But looking back, just because, at that point in time … Again, I’m older than everybody in this room. That opportunity wasn’t available, but it’s so multidisciplinary. 

Kate Young: 

I can’t imagine the logistics and coordination that it takes to put on an event that big. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

It’s crazy. It is absolutely crazy. 

Kate Young: 

Tell us some insider info. Some behind-the-scenes stories. What’s something that’s really memorable from your time in that role? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

The memories for me … There are a couple of special ones. You mentioned the Butler run in 2010 was memorable only because when you work at either a conference office or the NCAA, you’re coached, and it’s the expectation that you’re neutral. You want everyone to have the same experience. You don’t have any type of emotional investment on who wins and who moves on through the bracket. 

To me, it was, again, take the names off. It was really boring to have the same four teams there every single year. I always loved when somebody kind of- 

Kate Young: 

The underdog? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. Yes, absolutely loved that. Absolutely loved it. 

Kate Young: 

The Cinderella story. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes, yes, yes. That was really fun. But my most memorable moments of working in that for over a decade wasn’t really a individual moment or an event, but it was more so the relationships that were built behind the scenes. 

Every year, we had 13 preliminary round sites, which in my mind, again, is kind of one unit of the Final Four. And then the Final Four itself is its whole other entity. It’s the same staff that works both of them, but they’re very, very different. Talking about the preliminary rounds, there’s a responsibility to have kind of a cross section of West Coast, the Middle America, East Coast to make sure that it covers all the different television zones and things like that. But there are a handful of tournament managers who are usually deputy athletic directors that we would come back year after year, and it would be the same … Not year after year, but a couple of times next times bids came open that ended up being my best friends in the business. 

You’re in it at a pace that is unbelievable. You’re working, I would say, at least 70 hours a week. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

You’re in the trenches with these folks, and you just … You’re there with them for so many hours a day, and you have no idea what it’s like coming down the pike, what issues you’re going to hit, and through all of that, you’re essentially in the trenches with them. 

There’s a handful of tournament managers across the country. There’s about six of us that established almost this clique. It’s almost like being in a high school, being new to a high school, and you don’t know what lunch table you’re going to sit at, and you end up finding your people, and this is the exact same situation. And you find your people by trust, by mutual respect, by accountability, availability, consistency in management. Those folks have ended up being some of my best friends. 

And it was also special because we grew up together. We all started around the same age. Even though our professions have taken different twists and turns, we still have a text string together, and we make fun of each other and tease each other, but at the same time, we’re still supportive of each other. That’s what really has stuck with me and will stick with me for the rest of my life, is the friendships and the connections. 

Kate Young: 

We were talking earlier this week. I think something that people might not necessarily think of is how secretive and basically locked down you had to be in your role when you talked about a police officer was guarding the door. Tell us a little bit about the process of choosing cities. Choosing the team’s selections. I know our listeners and viewers will be super interested in those little behind-the-scenes stories. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

There are two separate processes. The whole site selection thing is important because, again, you should … In a perfect world, you’ll be able to balance an East Coast site and a West Coast site. And not dating myself, but back when I was doing it, there were only seven cities that could host the event, meaning that they would have the facility requirements that were needed. They had the hotel and essentially the infrastructure that was required. We developed this big bid specification notebook that was probably 200 pages long that talked about everything from the broad brushstrokes of what’s required down to the height and the width and the depth of the tables and the candlelight strength in the competition venue. It was just ad nauseam detail. 

Versus the selection seating and bracketing thing is something that’s completely separate. That happens right before selection Sunday. That’s about a week-long event. You’re in lockdown where they would set aside … There was a specific hotel down in Indianapolis that we would go to that no one was allowed to visit the floor. We bought out the entire floor. There was a guard who was an Indiana state police officer, who was absolutely wonderful, who was positioned right there at the elevator bank. He had a list of every single person plus their headshot, so he knew who was supposed to be on the floor. And anyone else who would try to get off that floor, obviously he wouldn’t let them. But when I first started, I remember helicopters flying, circling the facility. There were no deliveries that would be accepted. 

Kate Young: 

No lunch deliveries. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

No deliveries. 

Kate Young: 

Delivery driver could overhear something. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

That’s right. Well, and it was a lot of institutions who might be considered right there on the bubble would send pages. And again, I’m dating myself. It would send pages and pages of information to basically bolster their position as to why they should be- 

Kate Young: 

“This is why we deserve to be in the- 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. We closed down every phone line, so you couldn’t call our individual rooms. It was absolutely crazy, but it is a real protective environment, free as possible of any type of bias. Perception is reality in a sense that, if there were teams that were involved in the discussion … I remember one year we had Mike Slive, who was the commissioner of the SEC Southeastern Conference. And anytime an SEC team was discussed, he would have to leave the room. And if I remember correctly, there were a handful, five, six, seven institutions that were in the SEC that were up for discussion. And so, he would have to leave the room. He was out of the selection room just as much as he was in there. 

But again, just to be able to look everyone in the face and say, “Hey, look, this is completely free of bias.” He wasn’t even in the room. He didn’t submit a vote. It was an independent decision. A collective decision. I think that that gave it a little bit of credence. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. That’s fascinating. 

We talked about you changed your major several times, it sounds, but what was that turning point for you that you were like, “I really want to pursue sports as a career,”? 

Did you grow up just loving sports? Walk us through that. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

I grew up in a family. I’m one of five children. I’m a four of five. The best, number four of five. I have three brothers and a sister. And our household was incredibly competitive. Hyper-competitive. Unhealthily. Unhealthy competitive. We would compete at every level. I remember my first memories again are probably field day in elementary school, and I may or may not still have the 50-yard dash record at the elementary school. 

Kate Young: 

Let’s do a fact check on that- 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes, please. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Heights Elementary. Spring, Texas. 

But all of my brothers competed, and my sister competed, and just this unhealthy hyper-competitive. It wasn’t even really about sports at the time. It was who could unload the dishwasher the fastest. Who had read the most books over the summer months? 

Kate Young: 

Your parents are smart. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Oh, my gosh. Yes. My dad was an engineer and military, so it was a no-nonsense type of household. And again, every day, life is about competition. And then mom was a nurse. 

My earliest memories revolve around, again, playing football in the backyard or the elementary school field day. But one memory that stands out to me that is kind of full circle is we have to picture it. It is Spring, Texas 1983-ish. I was playing seventh grade basketball, and we were on our way to a tournament. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was a double-elimination tournament. And we’re about to pull out of the parking lot, and our coach comes down the little skinny aisle, and she’s handing us copies of the bracket. She hands one to me. By the way, I had the pigtails. I had the tube socks pulled up high. I was wearing the blue-and-gold polyester, scratchy uniform. She hands out the bracket, and we’re at a number seven or whatever seed, and I thought, how did we arrive at this number seven? Who designed this? How did it come about? Why are we seven when we’ve already played against number one and number four, and we’ve beaten both of them? 

And so I was just fascinated by the inner workings of not only the bracketing piece, if we win, we go here. If we lose, we go here, but also just the behind-the-scenes operational detail of it. Who is calling to make sure we have referees? Who’s calling to make sure we have an official score? Does that even matter in seventh grade basketball? I don’t know. But again, it just became a very full-circle moment that I remembered. 

And also with it being a double-elimination tournament, it’s a little bit confusing. If you win, you go here. And I remember trying to gently … She said, “If we win, we play this time. If we lose, we play it this time.” And I remember going, “No, no, no, no. If we lose, we actually go over here.” Again, I’ve just been fascinated. Again, maybe it’s genetic with dad being the engineer and military, but I’ve always been fascinated with the behind-the-scenes work. 

Kate Young: 

And then fast-forward, and you’re literally just deciding- 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. Yes. 

Kate Young: 

… where people go. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes, yes, and the bracket, actually, would come off of my computer. I facilitated the selection seating and bracketing process. Gosh, and that’s a whole ‘nother level of- 

Kate Young: 

Secrecy? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

… secrecy and pressure. The committees are … At that time, again, it was a 10-member committee, and they were usually athletic directors or conference commissioners, but there’s a requirement to make sure that there’s a balance of representation from East Coast to Central, all the different time zones, plus the level. They all had to be Division I. But the different sizes of institutions. There had to be a cross-section of representation. 

Again, the fascinating thing was they served four-year terms, but they would rotate off every four years. The addition or subtraction of one person was just kind of this fascinating case study because it would change the whole dynamics in the room. But it was really fun to … Again, you’re in the trenches with them. You’re talking about teams for 12 hours, at least, a day. 

And there were some instances when I was like, “For the love of the Lord, can someone just please vote? Let’s just call for a vote. We’d had enough discussion.” It was really fun. And again, you’re in the trenches with them, so you develop these relationships. And some of them would feel the pressure during the selection piece, whether or not the team is in or out. Others would feel the highest point of pressure being where their seed was. Isn’t that interesting? In my mind, for me, it’d be whether they’re in or out. After that, it’s up to them, right? 

Kate Young: 

Sure. Sure. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

But, well, every- 

Kate Young: 

It’s all the dominoes and how they fall into place depending on the seed, right? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

I can kind of see that side of it, too, I guess. Women are increasingly stepping into leadership roles in the sports industry. People in general are getting more excited about women’s sports. You think about Caitlin Clark coming to Indy with the Fever. Our own Boilermaker, Stephanie White, is now the Fever head coach. 

What will that mean for the future of the industry to have more female voices? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

When I walked into that room for selection, and again, I was facilitating the process, so I would lead them and say, “Hey, this is what you’re doing,” I never once gave a thought to, my goodness, I’m the only woman in this room. 

Kate Young: 

Interesting. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

I never once thought about that, I think because I looked at him and thought, you don’t have anything on my brothers. They were so mean and brutal. They would say, “Hey, go run deep. Do a slant.” And so I’d go, and I’d run the little football pad, and they would never throw me the ball. On one hand, I wasn’t ever … I didn’t ever feel intimidated, but I knew I had to have my ducks in order. 

And I was also very appreciative for all the women who came before me because, if not, this opportunity wouldn’t be afforded. We talked a little bit about Indianapolis. They also set the tone way back in 1979 when they developed that first sport commission. They also identified a woman who was the first president of the Indiana Sports Corp, which, in 1979, that was unheard of. Again, I’m just so appreciative of all the women who came before. 

There’s been a lot of conversation on your podcast about the implication and the effects and of everything from Amelia Earhart who was ahead of her time. I feel privileged to have been a part of the sport evolution where, when I first started, it was an exception. Now, it’s an expectation. And it’s not about really representation. It’s about women being put in positions of executive level. You think about Mel Raines, who’s down there, who is a CEO of Pacers Sports & Entertainment, but I don’t think we do a really good enough job of celebrating that because Mel is amazing. 

But there’s also Allison Melangton who was the head of the Super Bowl back in 2012. Again, we don’t hear her name enough. But under her leadership, we set what which is widely known as being the most successful Super Bowl in recent history. You have people like Julie Rowe who is the commissioner of the Horizon League, which is down in Indianapolis, and she’s the first woman to chair the Indy Sports Corp. You have Susan Baughman ran the college football playoff in 2022. Every single Final Four in recent memory for me. She’s also overseeing or directing the NBA All-Star Game. The WNBA All-Star Game. 

These are women who … Again, it’s not about representation. It’s about them being in positions where they are, again, executive directors and just making a real impact. 

Kate Young: 

What advice do you give to young women when it comes to pursuing a degree in the sports industry? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

I would tell them to be prepared to work your butt off. And that’s not any different for women versus men, but it is so competitive. Life is competitive, again, as I mentioned, but it is about setting yourself apart from these other 300 applicants. That I would tell them to be passionate about it. Be a really, really good team player because that’s a whole ‘nother part of it. And be curious. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. And also surround yourself with people like you. It’s about finding your people. 

Kate Young: 

Just like you did. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes, just like I did. And again, we talked about Susan Baughman, and we haven’t mentioned people like Joanne Briett who is on the board of trustees here. She is such a, again, fascinating case study. I keep telling her that she needs to run for office and that I would be her campaign manager. She doesn’t want to do that. She’s kind of giving me the thumbs down on it. That she’s so impactful. Been almost kind of behind the scenes, and that’s where she’s most comfortable. But also people like Dean Flesch. Lucy Flesch has her fingerprints all over the sport management program. Again, it’s not about representation. It’s about influence and creating the next generation of sport leaders. 

Kate Young: 

You talked about how you had to stay neutral for a long time. How does it feel to wear black and gold and truly be a Boilermaker and support Purdue? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

And mean it. It has been so special. You and I talked about this off camera, but being able to be here in West Lafayette and Purdue is really, really special. I really feel like I have made friends here that will be friends for the rest of my life. 

Now, throughout my career, I’ve had an opportunity to work across a lot of different campuses, whether I worked at them, or they were part of the … When I was an associate commissioner, one of the member institutions, or Final Four, I’ve worked with several, several campuses. I also had, again, brothers and sisters who went to … At the time were Southwest converts or whatever, but they went to University of Texas and Texas A&M and the Naval. I’ve had exposure to a lot of different campuses. 

Purdue is just something that is really special. I mean, it is a really unique blend of humility and almost understatement, but at the same time kicking ass. I mean, they are incredibly … And that is Joanne Briett, right? It is this understated excellence and this, again, just humility and friendship. I am so proud to be a part of the Purdue community and take that, I don’t want to say position, but opportunity very seriously. 

The other thing that really is special about Purdue is that it is generationally deep. And again, it’s weirdly collegial in a sense that, when you’re in the SEC, you are not going to see University of Florida and University of Tennessee or Georgia fans tailgating together. That just doesn’t happen. Here, again, there’s a collegiality that you see them tailgating together. It’s almost a shared experience, but also the roots are generationally deep. I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. And I’ve talked to Mike Bobinski about it too. We’ve just never seen it. To have not only a sibling, but your mom and your grandmother and father, and your aunts and uncles, and everybody’s involved in Purdue, it is really something special. And again, it’s something that I so much love and appreciate and cherish. 

Kate Young: 

It’s nice to hear that from someone who’s had so many different experiences with so many different colleges show and tell us how special Purdue is. Well, Jeanne, we can’t thank you enough. It was such a pleasure. It was so fun learning more about you and your journey. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Thank you so much for having me. If anybody’s interested in the program and willing to do the work, we have a place for ’em. 

Kate Young: 

And we’ll link some things in our show notes for easy access for our listeners. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Great. Thank you so much. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Boiler up. 

Kate Young: 

We can’t thank Jeanne enough for joining us on This is Purdue. She is so delightful and genuine, and we’re proud to have her as part of our Boilermaker community. You can watch more videos with Jeanne, including some of her thoughts on why Purdue basketball is so unique and her time serving as her college mascot, on our podcast YouTube channel, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. 

Time flies when you’re having fun, and this marks our last episode of our Spring 2025 season already. But we’ll be back in August for our Fall 2025 season, and we have so much more in store for you all. And don’t forget, we’ll have bonus content releasing on our YouTube channel all summer. Be sure to subscribe over there. Plus, be sure to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts so you don’t miss out on our kickoff to the fall season, which may include a certain athletics guest I’m sure all of our Boilermaker fans are curious to learn more about. We’ll talk to you in August. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger in collaboration with John Garcia, Thad Boone, and Zach Mogensen. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube Promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. And our creative production assistant is Dalani Young. 

Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. 

And as always, Boiler up. 

Alex Turner: 

This is Alex Turner and you’re listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Alex Turner: 

Coming into work every morning, I take it for granted sometimes, but it’s like the historic speedway right there and all of the history. My family’s always been kind of in the Midwest area. I found an old notebook from my great-grandfather that he drew the 1930s of IndyCars going around the track and I never met him, but maybe it’s just in our DNA here. 

Kate Young: 

It’s that time of year again, Boilermakers. For the past three years, during the month of May, our This is Purdue podcast team has featured all different types of Purdue storytelling that ties into the iconic Indianapolis 500. From IndyCar race engineers on the grid to those leading the behind the scenes detail at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway to execute the largest single day sporting event in the world. In this episode of This is Purdue, we’re talking to Alex Turner, Design Engineer at Dallara and proud Purdue Motorsports Engineering alum. 

Last May, Dallara, a globally recognized motorsports manufacturer and Purdue University formally partnered together to house Purdue’s Motorsports program at Dallara’s U.S. headquarters in Speedway, Indiana. Just steps from the iconic Indianapolis Motor Speedway, this facility will house space for classrooms, hands-on training, and diagnostic testing for Boilermaker students, further cementing the prestige of the only accredited motorsports engineering undergraduate program in the country. 

Alex was part of this prestigious program which led him to interning for Dallara and kickstarting his full-time career there in 2023. We’ll dig into how Purdue’s Motorsports Engineering program teed him up for success in the professional racing world, including how Chris Finch, Program Director of the Motorsports Engineering program at Purdue University in Indianapolis helps to prepare Boilermaker students for these hands-on experiential learning opportunities in racing. Plus, Alex discusses how curiosity and collaboration play a huge role in his career as a design engineer and shares some of his family ties to IndyCar and favorite race day memories. 

By the way, we shot this interview with Alex right inside Dallara’s incredible showroom in downtown Speedway. You can watch the video interview on our podcast YouTube channel if you want the full visuals, IndyCars and all. So drivers, start your engines. Let’s get to it. 

Alex, thank you for joining us on This is Purdue. We’re excited to feature you. We’re at Dallara, you’re a Dallara design engineer. You’re also a Boilermaker, so we’re going to go through all those fun journeys right before the 109th running of the Indy 500. 

Alex Turner: 

Thank you for having me. 

Kate Young: 

Of course. Okay, so we’ll dive right in. Dallara and Purdue’s Motorsports Engineering program formally partnered together last May. You did your schooling at Purdue in Indianapolis. Why is it an exciting opportunity for students and what do you think they’ll learn and benefit from this partnership 

Alex Turner: 

For students, I think it’s a great opportunity to literally get a foot in the door here at Dallara and before this was announced, we already had so many Purdue graduates and interns from Purdue Indianapolis or Purdue Lafayette. It’s just a great opportunity to come here and see where it’s actually happening and be at the center of IndyCar. 

Kate Young: 

Yeah, we’re steps from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. The Purdue Motorsports Engineering programs going in right here at Dallara too. You were saying before this there’s about 20 other Boilermakers that you work with? 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, most of our design office, I think five or six out of the nine of us are all from recent Purdue graduates in the last four years or so. We have two current Purdue Indianapolis interns, another is joining us in May. So it’s exciting and it’s a great feeder program, the Motorsports program. Chris Finch there does a really good job of preparing students so they’re ready to go once they graduate. 

Kate Young: 

What do you think this partnership means for the future of Dallara and motorsports engineering to have all these Boilermakers together working on the same team? 

Alex Turner: 

For Dallara, it’s great because I think it gives students even more hands-on experience, a good amount of technical experience here in the building, working in our shop and right next to our trailers where all the engineers are working day in and day out. As a student, to me, that would be super exciting to be able to do that. I wish I could have done that when I was in the program. And from Dallara’s side, it’s just great to have that when students are finished with the program that they’ve already had that little bit of experience and they’re not starting completely fresh and green. So it’s a good opportunity for everyone. 

Kate Young: 

We’ll get into the day-to-day of your job soon, but first I want to hear what was your entry into the motorsports world? Have you always been really passionate about racing? 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, so for me, I went to my first IndyCar race, it was at Kentucky back in probably 2007. I was seven or eight years old at the time, and I thought it was pretty cool, but I didn’t really catch on and then I went to my first 500 in 2011 with a family friend and that’s when it really caught onto me. I didn’t think I realized at the time that it could actually become a career. I was just like, I was into cars, so it became a hobby of mine and then later on, especially once I found out about Purdue Indianapolis Motorsports program, like wow, this could actually be a career. 

Kate Young: 

I asked Alex what led him to Purdue and if he had always been interested in pursuing engineering as a career. 

Alex Turner: 

As far as I can remember, I’ve always been into some sort of engineering. When I was really young, before I really got into racing and the automotive side, I was fascinated, I still am with space travel and with aerospace engineering and aeronautics. I was just drawn to Purdue at that age just because of all the astronauts, Neil Armstrong, Gene Cernan, Gus Grissom, they all went to Purdue, so that’s kind of where I wanted to end up before I was even in motorsports. 

Kate Young: 

So you’ve always loved Purdue is what you’re telling us? 

Alex Turner: 

Pretty much, yeah. 

Kate Young: 

What were some of your favorite things about being a Purdue Motorsports Engineering student? 

Alex Turner: 

When I did my campus tour, when I was getting close to graduating high school, one of the things that drew me to the program at Purdue Indianapolis specifically was just the amount of hands-on courses that they have and the practicum classes where you spend a semester once or twice where you get a project, you’re designing something and then you actually go into the shop and you have to make it and make it a reality. To me, that was incredible to be able to do that. So the theory side of it is important, the calculus, the physics, that stuff is super important obviously and foundational. But to me, for students, the most exciting part was just the hands-on stuff and you actually learn how to be a motorsports engineer. 

Kate Young: 

I know that’s important and unique about Purdue Indianapolis. What about some of your professors, your courses, how did they tee you up for success in your role at Dallara today? 

Alex Turner: 

Another thing for the program is that Chris Finch, they have a board of people that are involved every day in the motorsports industry, different teams here at Dallara. So they have a really good finger on the pulse of what teams need, what Dallara needs, what other manufacturers need from students coming out of the program. So the courses are geared directly towards that. Whether you want to become on the race engineering path or the design path or whatever your career goal is, there’s always courses that are very relevant to the industry at the time. 

Kate Young: 

So you’ve had internships at both Dallara and IndyCar. How did you pursue those opportunities? Tell us a little bit about those internships. 

Alex Turner: 

The IndyCar one was directly linked with the Purdue Indianapolis program, so they always would select after your first year a couple of students to come and do that, and you’d work at the track, you’re doing technical inspection, you were doing safety reporting, so when there was a big accident, you were taking pictures of the accident and analyzing it with the engineers. Ironically, a lot of the people that I work with now at Dallara that I got to meet back then, I didn’t know that’s where it would lead to, but it was foundational from that standpoint. And then here at Dallara, I really wanted to become a design engineer and for IndyCar, this is basically the place to do it. So I kind of just kept applying, kept applying, didn’t get hired the first couple times, but I just kept at it and they finally let me in the door. 

Kate Young: 

That persistence paid off, right? 

Alex Turner: 

Very luckily.Got to intern here for a couple of years before graduating. 

Kate Young: 

So what brought you here full time? 

Alex Turner: 

I think that’s kind of what they try to do with their interns. They want to bring people in and if you do a decent job, they want to help you grow. You’re not expected to be perfect out of the gates, but they look for someone that just wants to grow and wants to learn and does well in the Dallara culture. It’s a lot easier to hire someone like that than just fresh out of college because they already have along with me and the other kids that have been hired out of the program, already know how the company works, the systems, you know all the people. So it’s a matter of just that’s kind of a running start in a way. 

Kate Young: 

Alex shares some of the key takeaways he learned through both his IndyCar and Dallara internships that helped with the transition from graduation to his professional motorsports career. Plus, he dives into a day in the life of a design engineer. 

Alex Turner: 

I think for me, it really solidified that I wanted to be in the motorsports industry. I think with anyone, you’re kind of your first year in college, it’s really tough and you’re trying to adjust everything. You’re starting to doubt yourself and you’re like, is this really what I want to do? Can I even be successful in this? And the first internship at IndyCar and then coming here to Dallara just solidified them like, yes, this is absolutely what I want to do. It motivated me to work harder in my classes and finish on time because I just really wanted to get out into the real world and start working because I found it was incredibly engaging to me. 

Kate Young: 

Walk us through what’s a typical day in your life as a design engineer? 

Alex Turner: 

One of the things about Dallara for me, it feels like most days aren’t the same. So it’s different every day. You never know what you’re going to get. So when I come in, initially it’s first going through if there’s any issues in our quality department, we’ll inspect the part. If they have a question about maybe a defect or something that’s not quite matching a drawing, they’ll grab one of the designers on the part. So that’s kind how I start the day. Then you get your coffee and then you start working towards your whatever project you’re on at the time. We usually have longer term projects that we’re on for a month or a couple of months. Sometimes there’s meetings. If it’s a race weekend coming up, you’re gearing up for that, getting all your stuff together, all your documents, your reports. I always look back at the last year and the year before and see what was problem areas at this event or this track last year or the year before historically, and that’s always helpful to get you in the right mindset for the upcoming weekend. 

Kate Young: 

Curiosity is one of Dallara’s core values. How do you use that in your approach to your engineering when you show up to work every day? 

Alex Turner: 

For all of us, I think one of the things that Dallara does well is I think in the design office we have a really good strong company culture where we really try, sometimes you can’t avoid it completely, but we try to not let our egos get in the way. So whenever we’re working on a project, it’s very much, even if it’s kind of an individual task, it’s always a group involvement. So once a day or a couple of times a week, we’ll all come together and be like, “Hey, this is what I’m working on. This is what I’m thinking. What do you guys think about this? Do you think this will work? Or something else?” 

Kate Young: 

Really collaborative. 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, it’s very collaborative and sometimes someone will say something like, “Well, I didn’t think about that. That’s a really good idea. I should do that.” 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Alex Turner: 

In that way it’s kind of humbleness and not letting your ego get in the way of a good design. 

Kate Young: 

Do you think part of your education at Purdue also helped with that curiosity, that collaboration? 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, I love group projects. And never assuming that you have all the answers. There’s always a better way to do something most likely and always being open to finding new ways or a better way to do whatever you’re working on. 

Kate Young: 

Dallara has an incredible legacy in motorsports. It’s the largest multinational Italian race car manufacturer with a rich history in IndyCar, Formula One and other series. So what does it mean to Alex to work for a brand with such heritage in the sport? 

Alex Turner: 

It’s really incredible, honestly. Obviously Giampaolo has been incredibly successful in everything that he’s done and built this amazing company, and Dallara was extremely successful early on in IndyCar winning their first 500 in ’98 with Eddie Cheever. I believe the first Dallara chassis ran in 1997, and then like I said, we won our first Indy 500 in 1998. I say we, it was before I was born. It’s hard to say we there. But Dallara just continued to dominate through the early and mid-2000s, and then in 2012 when the current chassis was developed, Dallara became the sole supplier of the IndyCar Series. 

It feels like a big responsibility to have the Dallara name on my shirt because I grew up watching IndyCar and watching all kinds of racing where Dallara, like you said, is heavily involved. Going from an outsider’s perspective to being in the core group now, it’s been an interesting transition I would say. It’s hard to wake up sometimes and realize that that’s what your job is. That legacy just, it still runs deep in the company. I think it’s a very competitive environment. One of our company models as well is Pursuit of Excellence that runs deep here and we really try to do our best to uphold that. Again, not let egos or other things get in the way of that. The most important thing is design the best race car we can. 

Kate Young: 

What’s an unexpected element of being a Dallara engineer? Is there anything that maybe our big racing fans that would surprise them? 

Alex Turner: 

It’s a lot of work, long hours. The teams, obviously they have a ton of work and long hours as well, but not everyone’s always happy with you. As an engineer, I found that out pretty quickly. Now, whether it’s a design that didn’t work as you expected it to or something that breaks, in the motorsports industry, especially when you’re at the racetrack, it can get very passionate. So there’s a lot of emotions running high sometimes, so that kind of surprised me, but it’s all part of the job and it’s part of the fun, and you just got to keep pushing and do the best you can. 

Kate Young: 

How have you worked through that? 

Alex Turner: 

You have to have a thick skin. Some of the older guys that work here have been around a long time. Sometimes they’ll just try to build your character a little bit. It’s good because that’s what you need and you need to not take things personally when someone criticizes you or criticizes a design that you did. Again, just not letting your ego get in the way and say, “Yeah, I didn’t do a good job here and this can be better, so we’re going to do a better job next time.” 

Kate Young: 

Alex further explains the role of the Dallara chassis, which is essentially the backbone of each IndyCar that supports and holds all other components in place. 

Alex Turner: 

Safety is incredibly important. We take it very seriously that we don’t want drivers becoming hurt, or worse, in our cars. That’s something that’s very important to Giampaolo and to all of us. And then just every aspect of the car from what the driver interfaces with, from how the car handles, the consistency of the car, the balance, that’s all incredibly important. From the mechanics side, how easy the car is to work on, to assemble things, for maintenance, all that is incredibly important. So the chassis is just the centerpiece in all of that. It’s where the gearbox comes together, the engine comes together. It’s, I don’t want to say the most important part of the car, but it’s definitely the central backbone of the car where everything relates to the chassis. 

Kate Young: 

Dallara has a unique race simulator at their U.S. headquarters in Speedway. Alex shares more about this simulator and how engineers and race teams benefit from it. 

Alex Turner: 

So from the design engineering side, it’s not really our department, but we do have simulations engineers, people that are more kind of on the race engineering path and they work directly with the teams and with the drivers when they come in for a sim session. And normally what would happen is the team will come in, they’ll bring their own data. We say, “Hey, here’s our track model, here’s our tire model,” we’ve developed for like sports cars, for example. They will do a pre and post-event session working with the teams. IndyCar teams occasionally will use it for the Indy NXT side, the development series, it’s more for driver development. It’s time where a driver can purchase some time and they just get seat time. So we’ll say you get eight hours in the day for just practice. As a street circuit, you don’t get a lot of testing or a lot of seat time. 

So it’s a really good way for drivers to learn the tracks, learn the cars. We continue to develop it with the series. Especially for the IndyCar and sports car side, they’re doing setup recommendations. Teams will bring, they’ll usually start with their setup from last year and they’ll say, “Hey, here’s what we struggled with last year. What if we tried changes A, B and C?” And we’ll put those in the sim and see how the drivers like it. If they like it, they’ll move on with that and they’ll keep going in that direction. 

Kate Young: 

You said you’re a racing fan. You grew up a racing fan. What’s a Indy 500 memory that really sticks in your mind that’s really important to you? 

Alex Turner: 

There’s so many because I feel like… Our family always went to the 500 for most of my life. The best one probably it was honestly last year when being on the grid, my sister, she’s in the Purdue pharmacy program and she’s also in the All-American Marching Band. So she got to play with Jim Cornelison with Back Home Again in Indiana. So we were both on the grid together last year. Even though it rained, that was kind of delayed, but that was incredible to share that with her and have two members of our family on the grid. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, that is so special. Wow. 

Alex Turner: 

For me, as an engineer, it’s super important to be engaged with the final product that’s on the track. It’s one thing when you sit at your desk and you design something in CAD and it looks great. You think it’s the best thing ever, and that you think you’re super smart and then it goes on track and it breaks immediately. So to me, that’s really important. That’s honestly where I’ve learned the most. It’s just being at the track and seeing how the mechanics deal with the cars, how the drivers relate to the cars. It’s incredibly important. 

Kate Young: 

Is there a specific memory or moment that you remember that didn’t go as planned and you had to pivot? 

Alex Turner: 

There’s always something that comes up that always surprises you. Sometimes it’s things where you think, “Hey, I think this is not great. Maybe this could be an issue.” That never becomes a problem, and then it’s the one thing you never thought about that breaks, that’s super simple. So it’s just stuff like that all the time. It’s just always surprising, I guess. 

Kate Young: 

What are you looking forward to for this year’s Indy 500? 

Alex Turner: 

So we have the new hybrid system, which is exciting the first time at the Speedway with that. 

Kate Young: 

Tell us about that. 

Alex Turner: 

I think it’s going to be interesting. The weight’s gone up a little bit. The balance of the car is going to change. It’s going to be a little bit more power for qualifying, which is exciting. It was a big challenge last year to kind of package all of that and get that to work properly. So it’ll be really exciting to see that this month I think 

Kate Young: 

Being so close to the IMS, being in downtown Speedway, what does it mean to the Dallara team to be so involved with the iconic Indy 500 every year? 

Alex Turner: 

The location is perfect, obviously. During the month of May, we’re constantly running back and forth. They’re delivering parts or sending people over if there’s something. It’s nice to be just geographically close to the Speedway and then coming into work every morning, I take it for granted sometimes, but it’s like the historic Speedway right there and all of the history. My family’s always been kind of in the Midwest area. I found an old notebook from my great-grandfather that he drew the 1930s of IndyCars going around the track. 

Kate Young: 

Oh my gosh. 

Alex Turner: 

And I never met him, but maybe it’s just in our DNA here. 

Kate Young: 

That is so cool. What a cool story. What do you think Dallara’s broader impact in the world of motorsports is beyond just the Indy 500? 

Alex Turner: 

We have cars in Formula One. We have five or six cars that compete in Le Mans every year. It’s 24 hours to Le Mans. We have the IMSE SportsCar Series here in the U.S. We do F2, F3 over in Europe. We do Japanese Super Formula. So we have almost every continent, every weekend there’s some Dallara car racing. It’s almost like this global empire in a way, I guess. 

Kate Young: 

It is. Have you made the trip to Italy yet? 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, a few times. 

Kate Young: 

You have? 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, it’s an incredible facility. We have an incredible facility here as well, but over there we have about 60 employees here in the U.S. Italy has the Wind Tunnel, they have their own simulator, almost identical to the one we have. They have about 800 employees over there, so that’s still where most of the company is, and we’re on the phone with them every day on either video conference calls or chatting back and forth with them. So yeah, it’s an incredible, incredible experience over there. 

Kate Young: 

What advice would you have for students who are currently in the Motorsports Engineering program or hope to be one day? 

Alex Turner: 

I would take advantage of all the extracurricular activities that you can, like getting hands-on experience. Obviously internships when they become available, because that’s, I think, where you learn an incredible amount. Always take up opportunities when they come up. Just keep working incredibly hard. It’s really easy to get disheartened whenever classes get tough, they will and they do, but just keep pushing through it. It’s hard. Everyone goes through it. So we’ve all just had to survive and it does get better. It does get better. 

So I have a funny story about this. When we were going around to, I was in high school and we were looking at with my parents, some different colleges and everything. My dad really wanted me to check out the Purdue Indianapolis program. He’s like, “You don’t understand. They have this really cool program with former motorsports engineers and they have all these connections with race teams.” I’m like, “No, I don’t really want to. I want to go to the bigger campus.” I didn’t really want to go. I finally went. It was the most incredible thing ever and after that day, I didn’t want to go anywhere else but Purdue Indy. So I would probably tell myself to shut up and just listen in that scenario. 

Kate Young: 

Follow your instincts there. 

Alex Turner: 

My parents were right on that one. I was wrong. It turned out okay. 

Kate Young: 

They must be so proud to have two kids on the track at the Indy 500. That’s awesome. 

Alex Turner: 

Very lucky. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, finally, in case you weren’t aware of our podcast streak for predicting the winners of the Indy 500, This is Purdue has interviewed multiple Purdue IndyCar engineers who have gone on to win the Indianapolis 500 with their respective teams and drivers. 

In 2022, Purdue alumna Angela Ashmore made history as the first woman to win the Indianapolis 500 as a member of the winning cars crew with IndyCar Driver, Marcus Ericsson. And in 2023, we interviewed two team Penske IndyCar engineers, also Purdue alums, Matt Kuebel and Mike Koenig. They worked on all three team Penske IndyCar entries that raced in the 2023 Indianapolis 500, including Josef Newgarden, who won the 107th running of the Indy 500 that year. And then Joseph won it again in 2024. It just wouldn’t be our annual Indy 500 celebration episode without a few predictions. So I had to clue Alex in on the fun. 

Wait, I have to tell you a funny story. So every year that we do this interview, yours is excluded because you’re not part of a true team, of course, you’re part of Dallara. So the one year we interviewed an engineer at CGR and that driver won the Indy 500. The next year we interviewed Team Penske engineers and that driver won the 500. So we have a track record for predicting the Indy 500 winners. So we have to hear who your prediction is, if you’re allowed to say. 

Alex Turner: 

I think it’s going to be a Dallara car. I think we got a shot this year to do it. So you’ll be able to keep up your streak, which is good. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a biased opinion, but I like being able to keep up my streak. Well, Alex, did I miss anything? Is there anything else you want to tell our listeners? 

Alex Turner: 

I don’t think so. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. 

Kate Young: 

It was great being here at the Dallara U.S. headquarters, and thank you for joining us. 

Alex Turner: 

Thank you very much. 

MUSIC: 

How I long for my Indiana home. 

Drivers, start your engines. 

Kate Young: 

This year’s 109th running of the Indianapolis 500 presented by Gainbridge is on Sunday, May 25th. We can’t thank Alex enough for joining us on This is Purdue, and a special thanks to Dallara for hosting our team for this incredible episode. You can watch more behind the scenes videos with Alex. We challenged him to draw an IndyCar by memory. And spoiler alert, he did a fantastic job. Don’t miss this video and more. Head over to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/@ThisisPurdue. And be sure to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger, Jon Garcia, Thad Boone, and Zach Mogensen. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team Project Manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. Our creative production assistant is Dalani Young. And our This is Purdue intern is Caroline Keim. 

Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@ThisisPurdue. And as always, boiler up.