Jeanne Boyd: 

This is Jeanne Boyd, and you’re listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators, who are these Boilermakers. Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni, taking small steps toward their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Sports don’t happen in a vacuum. And even some of the events that surround sports, it is so interdisciplinary. One of the pieces that’s going to set us apart is the fact that we’re going to rely on industry experts to help us build that curriculum. We’re going to stay not just on trend but ahead of the trend. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Jeanne Boyd, Executive Director of Sport Management and Senior Advisor to the Provost at Purdue University. Jeanne is leading Purdue’s new master’s degree program in sport management, an interdisciplinary program with courses taught at both the West Lafayette and Indianapolis locations. That includes hands-on opportunities with Purdue Athletics, Indiana Sports Corp, and other industry leaders. The program starts this fall of 2025 and will be housed in the College of Health and Human Sciences with offerings led by the College of Science and Department of Computer Science. Jeanne discusses the wide variety of careers students can pursue in the sports industry from sport marketing, sport analytics, organizational leadership, ticketing, sales, sponsorships, and venue management, plus sport analytics and AI in technology and sport. This new program reflects Purdue’s commitment to meeting workforce demands and preparing students for future career success in a dynamic and evolving industry. 

Jeanne is also a veteran with national respect in the sports industry. She previously spent over a decade as the managing director of the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship at the NCAA. It’s safe to say she knows a thing or two about March Madness and the behind-the-scenes work it takes to put on a massive event like that. We’re diving into all of this and more in today’s episode. Here’s my conversation with Jeanne. 

Jeanne, thank you so much for joining us on This is Purdue. We’re delighted to have you and talk to you today. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Hey, thank you so much for inviting me. This is really special. I’m excited. 

Kate Young: 

We’re excited to have you. You are the executive director of Purdue’s new master’s program in sport management. This is taught at both West Lafayette campuses and Indianapolis campuses, and there’s so many hands-on things that you’re going to tell us about with the program. We’re partnered with Purdue Athletics, Indiana Sports Corporation, other sports industry leaders. We’re excited to jump into that, jump into your personal journey in the sports world, but first things first. 

How did you come to Purdue? And tell us a little bit about your role here. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

I was so fortunate to be able to work at a high level of college athletics. The highest level, actually. From undergrad, I was at a very large SEC institution, and then I went to another SEC institution, which was large, then a conference office which was also Division I, and then the national office. And at some point in time, though, you start thinking about your position in life. How do you give back? When do you give back? And the responsibility to give back. And I felt that this was a perfect opportunity to do that. 

That, plus you take into consideration just the academic success that is unmatched here at Purdue. The fact that you have an athletic department which is unbelievably successful. You have a brand that is nationally and internationally recognized, and also our Purdue and Indianapolis campus. It just felt like all the stars were aligned, and it was going to be a perfect opportunity for me. 

Kate Young: 

What are you most excited about for this role? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

I’m surprised by how excited I am. I’m really excited about the interdisciplinary collaboration. Sports don’t happen in a vacuum. And even some of the events that surround sports, it is so interdisciplinary. I was thinking as I was preparing for today that, if you gave me a specific discipline or major at Purdue, I could make a tie to every single one. It doesn’t matter what it is. Veterinary science. Bomb dogs. Agricultural, where you had your turf management. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes- 

Kate Young: 

The Cubs. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. Amazing. It is just such an interdisciplinary effort. I think that that’s what makes it special. 

Kate Young: 

And I know we’ll get into this, but a lot of people, I think, talk about the glitz and glamour of sports, and there’s so many behind-the-scenes roles that are so important and are new and that didn’t exist 10 years ago probably. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

That’s very true. 

Kate Young: 

We’ll dive into that. Sports is such a fast-growing industry. It generates billions of dollars in Indiana, and it’s expected to grow 11% nationwide by 2033. 

What should students be excited about with this new master’s degree program? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

We’ve worked with industry experts to help us build this. And at the end of the day, we think we’ve built something that is innovative. It’s forward-thinking. It addresses the fact that sport, not just college sport but sport across the board, is ever-changing. I don’t know if this is because I’m getting older, but it feels like time is going by quicker, but it is in a perpetual state of change. It addresses that. 

It’s a 36-hour residential program. And courses, as you mentioned, will be taught in both West Lafayette and down in Indianapolis. And one of the things that I think is going to set us apart is, once students are accepted into the program, we’re going to sit down with them and conduct an in-depth interview to find out their area of specialty or interest or, again, just area of, again, almost specialization. 

Every student’s going to have to complete six courses of foundational knowledge, and those are all housed in HHS. And those include things like sport management and sport business, business law, business communication, things of that nature that, regardless of what area of specialization you go into, there’s an application that’s there. 

But then after that, every student’s roadmap is customized to their area of interest. And we’ll get to the point that maybe somebody doesn’t know which way they’re going to go, and that’s okay. But if they do know their way to go, they have four additional courses that they have to take that are electives outside of the department that will be tailored again to their specific area of interest. And then they have 450 hours of hands-on work where we’ve partnered with industry partners and university departments here to also match those areas of interest. 

For example, if somebody comes in, and in their interview they say, “Hey, I would love to be a sport information director,” they’d have to take those six courses that, again, apply to everybody. But then those four courses … They might take something like public relations, public speaking, that I did not take that I would wish at this moment that I would’ve taken. Communications. And then maybe a data analytics and sport class and an AI and technology and sport class. And then those 450 hours will also be targeted in the sport information world. And again, we’ll work with our industry partners to make those opportunities available. 

Kate Young: 

It sounds like you’re zeroing in on what they’re passionate about, but then if they don’t know, there are paths for those people who don’t know either. Right? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Right. And you know what? If you come in as a generalist, and you have no idea which direction you want to go, we’ll be able to just start them off somewhere, wherever they might think they have an inkling. And you know what? If that doesn’t work, that’s okay because I think you learn oftentimes just as much about what you don’t like or where you don’t want to go. And it’s not necessarily meaning that it’s a negative experience, but you can say, “Hey, I’m not really … I don’t love kids. I don’t want to be around kids. I do not want to be a high school teacher,” whatever it may be. But you learn just as much from that, so we will redirect that. Yes. 

Kate Young: 

Downtown Indy is such a special place. It’s the amateur sports capital of the world. We have the WNBA All-Star Game coming up this summer. We have the 2026 NCAA Final Four in Indy again. It’s home to the Colts, the Fever, the Pacers. 

Why should students be excited about leveraging Indy and their position in the sports industry when it comes to this degree? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Indianapolis has created such a special opportunity and almost an ecosystem that doesn’t exist anywhere else. There’s a lot of different components to this. The first component is, well, what makes them set themselves apart? The first thing is, going back in history, in 1979 … Was anybody even alive in 1979 in this room? 

Kate Young: 

Two? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Two. Three? They created the first sport commission in the United States. Since then, it’s been setting the tone of, how did these large cities, usually, attract and also host these large-scale events? They’ve really set the tone for every other city in the world. There’s this historical significance. 

The second piece that sets Indianapolis apart is that they have world-class facilities. Everything is walkable, is the third piece. And they also have all these tremendous hotels and restaurants. The other piece is the fact that we have now a campus down there in Indianapolis. All those things together make for a perfect almost ecosystem. In a sense, I think of it as, if you wanted to be in film, it doesn’t matter if you’re an actor, a director, a producer, or if you’re a camera person or in special effects. You’re going to Hollywood. Right? 

Kate Young: 

Going to LA. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

That’s exactly right. To back up, the other thing that Indianapolis has is just an unmatched level of direction or leadership. Patrick Talty there at the Sports Corp, he understands kind of the broader picture and all of the things that are needed to host and support these events. Again, they’ve got almost, again, a broader sense of the economic impact and the infrastructure and things that are needed and the lasting effects that hosting these types of event brings with it. 

Anyway, if you are … Again, it doesn’t matter what your area of specialization is. If you want to be in film, you’re going to Hollywood, and that’s what they’re creating in Indianapolis. If you want to be in sports, Indianapolis is the place to be. 

Kate Young: 

I’ll never forget … I’m from Fort Wayne. Smaller than Indy. And I went to my first NCAA Final Four. Maybe it was in 2010. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. Yes. Butler’s run. Butler’s run. Loved it. 

Kate Young: 

And it was just this whole the vibes of the city and how hospitable Hoosiers are, right? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

There were so many pieces and parts that I was just so proud to now be living in Indy and be a part of that. It’s such a special place. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

And you should be proud of it. I mean, again, in my previous role as the managing director of the Men’s Final Four, I had, again, the privilege to work across all cities that submitted bids. They were able to host the event. I remember as a part of the post-tournament evaluation that we conduct with all the Final Four teams plus the host city to basically say, “Hey, what can we approve upon? How can we do things better? What issues came up that were not detailed in our directions or bid specifications?” And I talked to the person who ran all the volunteer stuff, and I said, “Coming into this again, what set them apart?” And it was very clear that it’s this really nice balance of knowledgeable staff. They’ve hosted all of these events, and they do it really, really well. Mixed with an interest in almost an evolution or an evolvement of the event. As events continue to grow and whatnot, they’re open to all of those things, but also preserving the Hoosier hospitality just made such a special combination. 

When I worked for the Final Four, I was also the main point of contact for the NABC, which is the National Association of Basketball Coaches, and they host their yearly convention in conjunction with the Final Four. You had basketball coaches coming in from Divisions I, II, III, high school coaches from all over the country, and they have a board of directors that at the end of the Final Four, they submit these recommendations for future years, and they wanted the Final Four to … Can we set up an opportunity where it rotates between two specific cities? And one of those was Indianapolis. And I had to gently explain that there’s a little bit of taxing. It’s a heavy load. It’s a heavy load in a sense of personnel and volunteerism and all of those things, but there’s also a financial heavy load, so we do need to spread it around a little bit. But based on their experience only … Again, these are folks that are coming in from all around the country. They wanted to just narrow it down to two different cities, and Indianapolis being one of those. 

Kate Young: 

We know Indy is special. West Lafayette is also special. The program here on campus in West Lafayette will be housed right next to Purdue Athletics. 

What does that mean for students? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Oh, my gosh. Yes, we are in Lambert, which is connected through a tunnel right directly to Mackey. Those students who decide to come and experience the program from a West Lafayette perspective gives them the opportunity to get behind the scenes to, again, one of the most respected and successful athletic programs in the country. 

Again, not only being connected physically, but we do have a great partnership with Purdue Athletics that will offer these students a behind-the-scenes look at a wide variety of opportunities or what are potential jobs. I don’t think people understand the depth and breadth of the different opportunities that are available. In my mind, if you think about sport management, you might think about coaching or essentially managing, whatever that may be, but I would encourage folks to take a minute and look at our team link that’s there on Purdue Athletics website to see the depth and breadth of opportunities because it is crazy, but it’ll give them a behind-the-scenes look at what opportunities are available. 

Also, an opportunity to be connected with those professionals because they’ll be guest speakers in our classroom. They’ll serve on a board that’s helping us continuously look at the curriculum and make sure that it is evolving and keeps up with trends and things of that nature. It’s going to be fun. 

Kate Young: 

With things like the NIL in the news everywhere now, this increased regulation at the professional level of sports, how will this degree program at Purdue support this need for flexibility in an industry that’s always changing? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

You’re exactly right. It is changing every day. I feel for the commissioners and the athletic directors and the NCAA and all of those that are involved from an administrative perspective, that it’s changing constantly, and it’s almost like they’re whipping in the wind. 

I think one of the pieces that’s going to set us apart is the fact that we’re going to rely on industry experts to help us build that curriculum. We’re going to stay not just on trend but ahead of the trend. Not only will they be involved from an advisory perspective, but they’re also going to serve as, in some cases, adjunct professors. Guest speakers. They’ll also serve as mentors and more of those types of tangential touch points with our students. They’ll oversee kind of … 

Again, we talked about the hands-on experience and the 450 hours that they have to complete. They’re also providing those opportunities. They’ll give feedback on job performance and what’s needed. Because actually right now there’s a lot of conversation about there being a little bit of a disconnect between when folks come out of graduation versus what the industry needs. These folks, again, being so well-connected with them and being essentially friends, they’re going to allow us and provide feedback to help us bridge that gap or close that gap. 

Kate Young: 

Before coming to Purdue, we touched on this a little bit, but you spent over a decade leading operations as the managing director of the NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball Tournament. I’m sure a lot of our listeners are excited to hear some more behind-the-scenes- 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Oh, boy. 

Kate Young: 

… details of that job and what that entails. Tell us about your path to the NCAA and what led you on that journey and through that role. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Looking back to undergrad … And I think a lot of your guests that have come on the podcast have said that their journey wasn’t linear. That’s certainly the case for me. I started out as an accounting major. Well, I love numbers, I love money, but that did not work for me. I was like, “This is so boring.” Then I shifted to being a business major. That didn’t work either. And then I was in education. And again, as looking back, that didn’t seem linear at the time, and I felt like I was kind of in this weird place, and my parents certainly didn’t think it was very logical at the time. 

But looking back, sport management has elements of all of those things. You’re preparing budgets. You’re doing organizational leadership, learning how to communicate with folks. There’s an educational component in a sense that, with a local organizing committee, you had all of these meetings where you would educate them on what’s needed and what we need. Here are all the logistics of it. It’s just so multifaceted and so multidisciplinary. 

Up until the day my dad passed away, every time I called, and I had been directing the Men’s Final Four for eight years, he would say, “Don’t tell me. You called me to say you changed your major.” I was like, “Dad, I have a PhD.” 

Kate Young: 

We’re too far down now. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Right. Right. Again, it wasn’t linear. It wasn’t logical. But looking back, just because, at that point in time … Again, I’m older than everybody in this room. That opportunity wasn’t available, but it’s so multidisciplinary. 

Kate Young: 

I can’t imagine the logistics and coordination that it takes to put on an event that big. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

It’s crazy. It is absolutely crazy. 

Kate Young: 

Tell us some insider info. Some behind-the-scenes stories. What’s something that’s really memorable from your time in that role? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

The memories for me … There are a couple of special ones. You mentioned the Butler run in 2010 was memorable only because when you work at either a conference office or the NCAA, you’re coached, and it’s the expectation that you’re neutral. You want everyone to have the same experience. You don’t have any type of emotional investment on who wins and who moves on through the bracket. 

To me, it was, again, take the names off. It was really boring to have the same four teams there every single year. I always loved when somebody kind of- 

Kate Young: 

The underdog? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. Yes, absolutely loved that. Absolutely loved it. 

Kate Young: 

The Cinderella story. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes, yes, yes. That was really fun. But my most memorable moments of working in that for over a decade wasn’t really a individual moment or an event, but it was more so the relationships that were built behind the scenes. 

Every year, we had 13 preliminary round sites, which in my mind, again, is kind of one unit of the Final Four. And then the Final Four itself is its whole other entity. It’s the same staff that works both of them, but they’re very, very different. Talking about the preliminary rounds, there’s a responsibility to have kind of a cross section of West Coast, the Middle America, East Coast to make sure that it covers all the different television zones and things like that. But there are a handful of tournament managers who are usually deputy athletic directors that we would come back year after year, and it would be the same … Not year after year, but a couple of times next times bids came open that ended up being my best friends in the business. 

You’re in it at a pace that is unbelievable. You’re working, I would say, at least 70 hours a week. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

You’re in the trenches with these folks, and you just … You’re there with them for so many hours a day, and you have no idea what it’s like coming down the pike, what issues you’re going to hit, and through all of that, you’re essentially in the trenches with them. 

There’s a handful of tournament managers across the country. There’s about six of us that established almost this clique. It’s almost like being in a high school, being new to a high school, and you don’t know what lunch table you’re going to sit at, and you end up finding your people, and this is the exact same situation. And you find your people by trust, by mutual respect, by accountability, availability, consistency in management. Those folks have ended up being some of my best friends. 

And it was also special because we grew up together. We all started around the same age. Even though our professions have taken different twists and turns, we still have a text string together, and we make fun of each other and tease each other, but at the same time, we’re still supportive of each other. That’s what really has stuck with me and will stick with me for the rest of my life, is the friendships and the connections. 

Kate Young: 

We were talking earlier this week. I think something that people might not necessarily think of is how secretive and basically locked down you had to be in your role when you talked about a police officer was guarding the door. Tell us a little bit about the process of choosing cities. Choosing the team’s selections. I know our listeners and viewers will be super interested in those little behind-the-scenes stories. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

There are two separate processes. The whole site selection thing is important because, again, you should … In a perfect world, you’ll be able to balance an East Coast site and a West Coast site. And not dating myself, but back when I was doing it, there were only seven cities that could host the event, meaning that they would have the facility requirements that were needed. They had the hotel and essentially the infrastructure that was required. We developed this big bid specification notebook that was probably 200 pages long that talked about everything from the broad brushstrokes of what’s required down to the height and the width and the depth of the tables and the candlelight strength in the competition venue. It was just ad nauseam detail. 

Versus the selection seating and bracketing thing is something that’s completely separate. That happens right before selection Sunday. That’s about a week-long event. You’re in lockdown where they would set aside … There was a specific hotel down in Indianapolis that we would go to that no one was allowed to visit the floor. We bought out the entire floor. There was a guard who was an Indiana state police officer, who was absolutely wonderful, who was positioned right there at the elevator bank. He had a list of every single person plus their headshot, so he knew who was supposed to be on the floor. And anyone else who would try to get off that floor, obviously he wouldn’t let them. But when I first started, I remember helicopters flying, circling the facility. There were no deliveries that would be accepted. 

Kate Young: 

No lunch deliveries. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

No deliveries. 

Kate Young: 

Delivery driver could overhear something. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

That’s right. Well, and it was a lot of institutions who might be considered right there on the bubble would send pages. And again, I’m dating myself. It would send pages and pages of information to basically bolster their position as to why they should be- 

Kate Young: 

“This is why we deserve to be in the- 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. We closed down every phone line, so you couldn’t call our individual rooms. It was absolutely crazy, but it is a real protective environment, free as possible of any type of bias. Perception is reality in a sense that, if there were teams that were involved in the discussion … I remember one year we had Mike Slive, who was the commissioner of the SEC Southeastern Conference. And anytime an SEC team was discussed, he would have to leave the room. And if I remember correctly, there were a handful, five, six, seven institutions that were in the SEC that were up for discussion. And so, he would have to leave the room. He was out of the selection room just as much as he was in there. 

But again, just to be able to look everyone in the face and say, “Hey, look, this is completely free of bias.” He wasn’t even in the room. He didn’t submit a vote. It was an independent decision. A collective decision. I think that that gave it a little bit of credence. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. That’s fascinating. 

We talked about you changed your major several times, it sounds, but what was that turning point for you that you were like, “I really want to pursue sports as a career,”? 

Did you grow up just loving sports? Walk us through that. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

I grew up in a family. I’m one of five children. I’m a four of five. The best, number four of five. I have three brothers and a sister. And our household was incredibly competitive. Hyper-competitive. Unhealthily. Unhealthy competitive. We would compete at every level. I remember my first memories again are probably field day in elementary school, and I may or may not still have the 50-yard dash record at the elementary school. 

Kate Young: 

Let’s do a fact check on that- 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes, please. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Heights Elementary. Spring, Texas. 

But all of my brothers competed, and my sister competed, and just this unhealthy hyper-competitive. It wasn’t even really about sports at the time. It was who could unload the dishwasher the fastest. Who had read the most books over the summer months? 

Kate Young: 

Your parents are smart. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Oh, my gosh. Yes. My dad was an engineer and military, so it was a no-nonsense type of household. And again, every day, life is about competition. And then mom was a nurse. 

My earliest memories revolve around, again, playing football in the backyard or the elementary school field day. But one memory that stands out to me that is kind of full circle is we have to picture it. It is Spring, Texas 1983-ish. I was playing seventh grade basketball, and we were on our way to a tournament. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was a double-elimination tournament. And we’re about to pull out of the parking lot, and our coach comes down the little skinny aisle, and she’s handing us copies of the bracket. She hands one to me. By the way, I had the pigtails. I had the tube socks pulled up high. I was wearing the blue-and-gold polyester, scratchy uniform. She hands out the bracket, and we’re at a number seven or whatever seed, and I thought, how did we arrive at this number seven? Who designed this? How did it come about? Why are we seven when we’ve already played against number one and number four, and we’ve beaten both of them? 

And so I was just fascinated by the inner workings of not only the bracketing piece, if we win, we go here. If we lose, we go here, but also just the behind-the-scenes operational detail of it. Who is calling to make sure we have referees? Who’s calling to make sure we have an official score? Does that even matter in seventh grade basketball? I don’t know. But again, it just became a very full-circle moment that I remembered. 

And also with it being a double-elimination tournament, it’s a little bit confusing. If you win, you go here. And I remember trying to gently … She said, “If we win, we play this time. If we lose, we play it this time.” And I remember going, “No, no, no, no. If we lose, we actually go over here.” Again, I’ve just been fascinated. Again, maybe it’s genetic with dad being the engineer and military, but I’ve always been fascinated with the behind-the-scenes work. 

Kate Young: 

And then fast-forward, and you’re literally just deciding- 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. Yes. 

Kate Young: 

… where people go. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes, yes, and the bracket, actually, would come off of my computer. I facilitated the selection seating and bracketing process. Gosh, and that’s a whole ‘nother level of- 

Kate Young: 

Secrecy? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

… secrecy and pressure. The committees are … At that time, again, it was a 10-member committee, and they were usually athletic directors or conference commissioners, but there’s a requirement to make sure that there’s a balance of representation from East Coast to Central, all the different time zones, plus the level. They all had to be Division I. But the different sizes of institutions. There had to be a cross-section of representation. 

Again, the fascinating thing was they served four-year terms, but they would rotate off every four years. The addition or subtraction of one person was just kind of this fascinating case study because it would change the whole dynamics in the room. But it was really fun to … Again, you’re in the trenches with them. You’re talking about teams for 12 hours, at least, a day. 

And there were some instances when I was like, “For the love of the Lord, can someone just please vote? Let’s just call for a vote. We’d had enough discussion.” It was really fun. And again, you’re in the trenches with them, so you develop these relationships. And some of them would feel the pressure during the selection piece, whether or not the team is in or out. Others would feel the highest point of pressure being where their seed was. Isn’t that interesting? In my mind, for me, it’d be whether they’re in or out. After that, it’s up to them, right? 

Kate Young: 

Sure. Sure. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

But, well, every- 

Kate Young: 

It’s all the dominoes and how they fall into place depending on the seed, right? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

I can kind of see that side of it, too, I guess. Women are increasingly stepping into leadership roles in the sports industry. People in general are getting more excited about women’s sports. You think about Caitlin Clark coming to Indy with the Fever. Our own Boilermaker, Stephanie White, is now the Fever head coach. 

What will that mean for the future of the industry to have more female voices? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

When I walked into that room for selection, and again, I was facilitating the process, so I would lead them and say, “Hey, this is what you’re doing,” I never once gave a thought to, my goodness, I’m the only woman in this room. 

Kate Young: 

Interesting. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

I never once thought about that, I think because I looked at him and thought, you don’t have anything on my brothers. They were so mean and brutal. They would say, “Hey, go run deep. Do a slant.” And so I’d go, and I’d run the little football pad, and they would never throw me the ball. On one hand, I wasn’t ever … I didn’t ever feel intimidated, but I knew I had to have my ducks in order. 

And I was also very appreciative for all the women who came before me because, if not, this opportunity wouldn’t be afforded. We talked a little bit about Indianapolis. They also set the tone way back in 1979 when they developed that first sport commission. They also identified a woman who was the first president of the Indiana Sports Corp, which, in 1979, that was unheard of. Again, I’m just so appreciative of all the women who came before. 

There’s been a lot of conversation on your podcast about the implication and the effects and of everything from Amelia Earhart who was ahead of her time. I feel privileged to have been a part of the sport evolution where, when I first started, it was an exception. Now, it’s an expectation. And it’s not about really representation. It’s about women being put in positions of executive level. You think about Mel Raines, who’s down there, who is a CEO of Pacers Sports & Entertainment, but I don’t think we do a really good enough job of celebrating that because Mel is amazing. 

But there’s also Allison Melangton who was the head of the Super Bowl back in 2012. Again, we don’t hear her name enough. But under her leadership, we set what which is widely known as being the most successful Super Bowl in recent history. You have people like Julie Rowe who is the commissioner of the Horizon League, which is down in Indianapolis, and she’s the first woman to chair the Indy Sports Corp. You have Susan Baughman ran the college football playoff in 2022. Every single Final Four in recent memory for me. She’s also overseeing or directing the NBA All-Star Game. The WNBA All-Star Game. 

These are women who … Again, it’s not about representation. It’s about them being in positions where they are, again, executive directors and just making a real impact. 

Kate Young: 

What advice do you give to young women when it comes to pursuing a degree in the sports industry? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

I would tell them to be prepared to work your butt off. And that’s not any different for women versus men, but it is so competitive. Life is competitive, again, as I mentioned, but it is about setting yourself apart from these other 300 applicants. That I would tell them to be passionate about it. Be a really, really good team player because that’s a whole ‘nother part of it. And be curious. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. And also surround yourself with people like you. It’s about finding your people. 

Kate Young: 

Just like you did. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Yes, just like I did. And again, we talked about Susan Baughman, and we haven’t mentioned people like Joanne Briett who is on the board of trustees here. She is such a, again, fascinating case study. I keep telling her that she needs to run for office and that I would be her campaign manager. She doesn’t want to do that. She’s kind of giving me the thumbs down on it. That she’s so impactful. Been almost kind of behind the scenes, and that’s where she’s most comfortable. But also people like Dean Flesch. Lucy Flesch has her fingerprints all over the sport management program. Again, it’s not about representation. It’s about influence and creating the next generation of sport leaders. 

Kate Young: 

You talked about how you had to stay neutral for a long time. How does it feel to wear black and gold and truly be a Boilermaker and support Purdue? 

Jeanne Boyd: 

And mean it. It has been so special. You and I talked about this off camera, but being able to be here in West Lafayette and Purdue is really, really special. I really feel like I have made friends here that will be friends for the rest of my life. 

Now, throughout my career, I’ve had an opportunity to work across a lot of different campuses, whether I worked at them, or they were part of the … When I was an associate commissioner, one of the member institutions, or Final Four, I’ve worked with several, several campuses. I also had, again, brothers and sisters who went to … At the time were Southwest converts or whatever, but they went to University of Texas and Texas A&M and the Naval. I’ve had exposure to a lot of different campuses. 

Purdue is just something that is really special. I mean, it is a really unique blend of humility and almost understatement, but at the same time kicking ass. I mean, they are incredibly … And that is Joanne Briett, right? It is this understated excellence and this, again, just humility and friendship. I am so proud to be a part of the Purdue community and take that, I don’t want to say position, but opportunity very seriously. 

The other thing that really is special about Purdue is that it is generationally deep. And again, it’s weirdly collegial in a sense that, when you’re in the SEC, you are not going to see University of Florida and University of Tennessee or Georgia fans tailgating together. That just doesn’t happen. Here, again, there’s a collegiality that you see them tailgating together. It’s almost a shared experience, but also the roots are generationally deep. I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. And I’ve talked to Mike Bobinski about it too. We’ve just never seen it. To have not only a sibling, but your mom and your grandmother and father, and your aunts and uncles, and everybody’s involved in Purdue, it is really something special. And again, it’s something that I so much love and appreciate and cherish. 

Kate Young: 

It’s nice to hear that from someone who’s had so many different experiences with so many different colleges show and tell us how special Purdue is. Well, Jeanne, we can’t thank you enough. It was such a pleasure. It was so fun learning more about you and your journey. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Thank you so much for having me. If anybody’s interested in the program and willing to do the work, we have a place for ’em. 

Kate Young: 

And we’ll link some things in our show notes for easy access for our listeners. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Great. Thank you so much. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. 

Jeanne Boyd: 

Boiler up. 

Kate Young: 

We can’t thank Jeanne enough for joining us on This is Purdue. She is so delightful and genuine, and we’re proud to have her as part of our Boilermaker community. You can watch more videos with Jeanne, including some of her thoughts on why Purdue basketball is so unique and her time serving as her college mascot, on our podcast YouTube channel, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. 

Time flies when you’re having fun, and this marks our last episode of our Spring 2025 season already. But we’ll be back in August for our Fall 2025 season, and we have so much more in store for you all. And don’t forget, we’ll have bonus content releasing on our YouTube channel all summer. Be sure to subscribe over there. Plus, be sure to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts so you don’t miss out on our kickoff to the fall season, which may include a certain athletics guest I’m sure all of our Boilermaker fans are curious to learn more about. We’ll talk to you in August. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger in collaboration with John Garcia, Thad Boone, and Zach Mogensen. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube Promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. And our creative production assistant is Dalani Young. 

Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. 

And as always, Boiler up. 

Alex Turner: 

This is Alex Turner and you’re listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Alex Turner: 

Coming into work every morning, I take it for granted sometimes, but it’s like the historic speedway right there and all of the history. My family’s always been kind of in the Midwest area. I found an old notebook from my great-grandfather that he drew the 1930s of IndyCars going around the track and I never met him, but maybe it’s just in our DNA here. 

Kate Young: 

It’s that time of year again, Boilermakers. For the past three years, during the month of May, our This is Purdue podcast team has featured all different types of Purdue storytelling that ties into the iconic Indianapolis 500. From IndyCar race engineers on the grid to those leading the behind the scenes detail at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway to execute the largest single day sporting event in the world. In this episode of This is Purdue, we’re talking to Alex Turner, Design Engineer at Dallara and proud Purdue Motorsports Engineering alum. 

Last May, Dallara, a globally recognized motorsports manufacturer and Purdue University formally partnered together to house Purdue’s Motorsports program at Dallara’s U.S. headquarters in Speedway, Indiana. Just steps from the iconic Indianapolis Motor Speedway, this facility will house space for classrooms, hands-on training, and diagnostic testing for Boilermaker students, further cementing the prestige of the only accredited motorsports engineering undergraduate program in the country. 

Alex was part of this prestigious program which led him to interning for Dallara and kickstarting his full-time career there in 2023. We’ll dig into how Purdue’s Motorsports Engineering program teed him up for success in the professional racing world, including how Chris Finch, Program Director of the Motorsports Engineering program at Purdue University in Indianapolis helps to prepare Boilermaker students for these hands-on experiential learning opportunities in racing. Plus, Alex discusses how curiosity and collaboration play a huge role in his career as a design engineer and shares some of his family ties to IndyCar and favorite race day memories. 

By the way, we shot this interview with Alex right inside Dallara’s incredible showroom in downtown Speedway. You can watch the video interview on our podcast YouTube channel if you want the full visuals, IndyCars and all. So drivers, start your engines. Let’s get to it. 

Alex, thank you for joining us on This is Purdue. We’re excited to feature you. We’re at Dallara, you’re a Dallara design engineer. You’re also a Boilermaker, so we’re going to go through all those fun journeys right before the 109th running of the Indy 500. 

Alex Turner: 

Thank you for having me. 

Kate Young: 

Of course. Okay, so we’ll dive right in. Dallara and Purdue’s Motorsports Engineering program formally partnered together last May. You did your schooling at Purdue in Indianapolis. Why is it an exciting opportunity for students and what do you think they’ll learn and benefit from this partnership 

Alex Turner: 

For students, I think it’s a great opportunity to literally get a foot in the door here at Dallara and before this was announced, we already had so many Purdue graduates and interns from Purdue Indianapolis or Purdue Lafayette. It’s just a great opportunity to come here and see where it’s actually happening and be at the center of IndyCar. 

Kate Young: 

Yeah, we’re steps from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. The Purdue Motorsports Engineering programs going in right here at Dallara too. You were saying before this there’s about 20 other Boilermakers that you work with? 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, most of our design office, I think five or six out of the nine of us are all from recent Purdue graduates in the last four years or so. We have two current Purdue Indianapolis interns, another is joining us in May. So it’s exciting and it’s a great feeder program, the Motorsports program. Chris Finch there does a really good job of preparing students so they’re ready to go once they graduate. 

Kate Young: 

What do you think this partnership means for the future of Dallara and motorsports engineering to have all these Boilermakers together working on the same team? 

Alex Turner: 

For Dallara, it’s great because I think it gives students even more hands-on experience, a good amount of technical experience here in the building, working in our shop and right next to our trailers where all the engineers are working day in and day out. As a student, to me, that would be super exciting to be able to do that. I wish I could have done that when I was in the program. And from Dallara’s side, it’s just great to have that when students are finished with the program that they’ve already had that little bit of experience and they’re not starting completely fresh and green. So it’s a good opportunity for everyone. 

Kate Young: 

We’ll get into the day-to-day of your job soon, but first I want to hear what was your entry into the motorsports world? Have you always been really passionate about racing? 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, so for me, I went to my first IndyCar race, it was at Kentucky back in probably 2007. I was seven or eight years old at the time, and I thought it was pretty cool, but I didn’t really catch on and then I went to my first 500 in 2011 with a family friend and that’s when it really caught onto me. I didn’t think I realized at the time that it could actually become a career. I was just like, I was into cars, so it became a hobby of mine and then later on, especially once I found out about Purdue Indianapolis Motorsports program, like wow, this could actually be a career. 

Kate Young: 

I asked Alex what led him to Purdue and if he had always been interested in pursuing engineering as a career. 

Alex Turner: 

As far as I can remember, I’ve always been into some sort of engineering. When I was really young, before I really got into racing and the automotive side, I was fascinated, I still am with space travel and with aerospace engineering and aeronautics. I was just drawn to Purdue at that age just because of all the astronauts, Neil Armstrong, Gene Cernan, Gus Grissom, they all went to Purdue, so that’s kind of where I wanted to end up before I was even in motorsports. 

Kate Young: 

So you’ve always loved Purdue is what you’re telling us? 

Alex Turner: 

Pretty much, yeah. 

Kate Young: 

What were some of your favorite things about being a Purdue Motorsports Engineering student? 

Alex Turner: 

When I did my campus tour, when I was getting close to graduating high school, one of the things that drew me to the program at Purdue Indianapolis specifically was just the amount of hands-on courses that they have and the practicum classes where you spend a semester once or twice where you get a project, you’re designing something and then you actually go into the shop and you have to make it and make it a reality. To me, that was incredible to be able to do that. So the theory side of it is important, the calculus, the physics, that stuff is super important obviously and foundational. But to me, for students, the most exciting part was just the hands-on stuff and you actually learn how to be a motorsports engineer. 

Kate Young: 

I know that’s important and unique about Purdue Indianapolis. What about some of your professors, your courses, how did they tee you up for success in your role at Dallara today? 

Alex Turner: 

Another thing for the program is that Chris Finch, they have a board of people that are involved every day in the motorsports industry, different teams here at Dallara. So they have a really good finger on the pulse of what teams need, what Dallara needs, what other manufacturers need from students coming out of the program. So the courses are geared directly towards that. Whether you want to become on the race engineering path or the design path or whatever your career goal is, there’s always courses that are very relevant to the industry at the time. 

Kate Young: 

So you’ve had internships at both Dallara and IndyCar. How did you pursue those opportunities? Tell us a little bit about those internships. 

Alex Turner: 

The IndyCar one was directly linked with the Purdue Indianapolis program, so they always would select after your first year a couple of students to come and do that, and you’d work at the track, you’re doing technical inspection, you were doing safety reporting, so when there was a big accident, you were taking pictures of the accident and analyzing it with the engineers. Ironically, a lot of the people that I work with now at Dallara that I got to meet back then, I didn’t know that’s where it would lead to, but it was foundational from that standpoint. And then here at Dallara, I really wanted to become a design engineer and for IndyCar, this is basically the place to do it. So I kind of just kept applying, kept applying, didn’t get hired the first couple times, but I just kept at it and they finally let me in the door. 

Kate Young: 

That persistence paid off, right? 

Alex Turner: 

Very luckily.Got to intern here for a couple of years before graduating. 

Kate Young: 

So what brought you here full time? 

Alex Turner: 

I think that’s kind of what they try to do with their interns. They want to bring people in and if you do a decent job, they want to help you grow. You’re not expected to be perfect out of the gates, but they look for someone that just wants to grow and wants to learn and does well in the Dallara culture. It’s a lot easier to hire someone like that than just fresh out of college because they already have along with me and the other kids that have been hired out of the program, already know how the company works, the systems, you know all the people. So it’s a matter of just that’s kind of a running start in a way. 

Kate Young: 

Alex shares some of the key takeaways he learned through both his IndyCar and Dallara internships that helped with the transition from graduation to his professional motorsports career. Plus, he dives into a day in the life of a design engineer. 

Alex Turner: 

I think for me, it really solidified that I wanted to be in the motorsports industry. I think with anyone, you’re kind of your first year in college, it’s really tough and you’re trying to adjust everything. You’re starting to doubt yourself and you’re like, is this really what I want to do? Can I even be successful in this? And the first internship at IndyCar and then coming here to Dallara just solidified them like, yes, this is absolutely what I want to do. It motivated me to work harder in my classes and finish on time because I just really wanted to get out into the real world and start working because I found it was incredibly engaging to me. 

Kate Young: 

Walk us through what’s a typical day in your life as a design engineer? 

Alex Turner: 

One of the things about Dallara for me, it feels like most days aren’t the same. So it’s different every day. You never know what you’re going to get. So when I come in, initially it’s first going through if there’s any issues in our quality department, we’ll inspect the part. If they have a question about maybe a defect or something that’s not quite matching a drawing, they’ll grab one of the designers on the part. So that’s kind how I start the day. Then you get your coffee and then you start working towards your whatever project you’re on at the time. We usually have longer term projects that we’re on for a month or a couple of months. Sometimes there’s meetings. If it’s a race weekend coming up, you’re gearing up for that, getting all your stuff together, all your documents, your reports. I always look back at the last year and the year before and see what was problem areas at this event or this track last year or the year before historically, and that’s always helpful to get you in the right mindset for the upcoming weekend. 

Kate Young: 

Curiosity is one of Dallara’s core values. How do you use that in your approach to your engineering when you show up to work every day? 

Alex Turner: 

For all of us, I think one of the things that Dallara does well is I think in the design office we have a really good strong company culture where we really try, sometimes you can’t avoid it completely, but we try to not let our egos get in the way. So whenever we’re working on a project, it’s very much, even if it’s kind of an individual task, it’s always a group involvement. So once a day or a couple of times a week, we’ll all come together and be like, “Hey, this is what I’m working on. This is what I’m thinking. What do you guys think about this? Do you think this will work? Or something else?” 

Kate Young: 

Really collaborative. 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, it’s very collaborative and sometimes someone will say something like, “Well, I didn’t think about that. That’s a really good idea. I should do that.” 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Alex Turner: 

In that way it’s kind of humbleness and not letting your ego get in the way of a good design. 

Kate Young: 

Do you think part of your education at Purdue also helped with that curiosity, that collaboration? 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, I love group projects. And never assuming that you have all the answers. There’s always a better way to do something most likely and always being open to finding new ways or a better way to do whatever you’re working on. 

Kate Young: 

Dallara has an incredible legacy in motorsports. It’s the largest multinational Italian race car manufacturer with a rich history in IndyCar, Formula One and other series. So what does it mean to Alex to work for a brand with such heritage in the sport? 

Alex Turner: 

It’s really incredible, honestly. Obviously Giampaolo has been incredibly successful in everything that he’s done and built this amazing company, and Dallara was extremely successful early on in IndyCar winning their first 500 in ’98 with Eddie Cheever. I believe the first Dallara chassis ran in 1997, and then like I said, we won our first Indy 500 in 1998. I say we, it was before I was born. It’s hard to say we there. But Dallara just continued to dominate through the early and mid-2000s, and then in 2012 when the current chassis was developed, Dallara became the sole supplier of the IndyCar Series. 

It feels like a big responsibility to have the Dallara name on my shirt because I grew up watching IndyCar and watching all kinds of racing where Dallara, like you said, is heavily involved. Going from an outsider’s perspective to being in the core group now, it’s been an interesting transition I would say. It’s hard to wake up sometimes and realize that that’s what your job is. That legacy just, it still runs deep in the company. I think it’s a very competitive environment. One of our company models as well is Pursuit of Excellence that runs deep here and we really try to do our best to uphold that. Again, not let egos or other things get in the way of that. The most important thing is design the best race car we can. 

Kate Young: 

What’s an unexpected element of being a Dallara engineer? Is there anything that maybe our big racing fans that would surprise them? 

Alex Turner: 

It’s a lot of work, long hours. The teams, obviously they have a ton of work and long hours as well, but not everyone’s always happy with you. As an engineer, I found that out pretty quickly. Now, whether it’s a design that didn’t work as you expected it to or something that breaks, in the motorsports industry, especially when you’re at the racetrack, it can get very passionate. So there’s a lot of emotions running high sometimes, so that kind of surprised me, but it’s all part of the job and it’s part of the fun, and you just got to keep pushing and do the best you can. 

Kate Young: 

How have you worked through that? 

Alex Turner: 

You have to have a thick skin. Some of the older guys that work here have been around a long time. Sometimes they’ll just try to build your character a little bit. It’s good because that’s what you need and you need to not take things personally when someone criticizes you or criticizes a design that you did. Again, just not letting your ego get in the way and say, “Yeah, I didn’t do a good job here and this can be better, so we’re going to do a better job next time.” 

Kate Young: 

Alex further explains the role of the Dallara chassis, which is essentially the backbone of each IndyCar that supports and holds all other components in place. 

Alex Turner: 

Safety is incredibly important. We take it very seriously that we don’t want drivers becoming hurt, or worse, in our cars. That’s something that’s very important to Giampaolo and to all of us. And then just every aspect of the car from what the driver interfaces with, from how the car handles, the consistency of the car, the balance, that’s all incredibly important. From the mechanics side, how easy the car is to work on, to assemble things, for maintenance, all that is incredibly important. So the chassis is just the centerpiece in all of that. It’s where the gearbox comes together, the engine comes together. It’s, I don’t want to say the most important part of the car, but it’s definitely the central backbone of the car where everything relates to the chassis. 

Kate Young: 

Dallara has a unique race simulator at their U.S. headquarters in Speedway. Alex shares more about this simulator and how engineers and race teams benefit from it. 

Alex Turner: 

So from the design engineering side, it’s not really our department, but we do have simulations engineers, people that are more kind of on the race engineering path and they work directly with the teams and with the drivers when they come in for a sim session. And normally what would happen is the team will come in, they’ll bring their own data. We say, “Hey, here’s our track model, here’s our tire model,” we’ve developed for like sports cars, for example. They will do a pre and post-event session working with the teams. IndyCar teams occasionally will use it for the Indy NXT side, the development series, it’s more for driver development. It’s time where a driver can purchase some time and they just get seat time. So we’ll say you get eight hours in the day for just practice. As a street circuit, you don’t get a lot of testing or a lot of seat time. 

So it’s a really good way for drivers to learn the tracks, learn the cars. We continue to develop it with the series. Especially for the IndyCar and sports car side, they’re doing setup recommendations. Teams will bring, they’ll usually start with their setup from last year and they’ll say, “Hey, here’s what we struggled with last year. What if we tried changes A, B and C?” And we’ll put those in the sim and see how the drivers like it. If they like it, they’ll move on with that and they’ll keep going in that direction. 

Kate Young: 

You said you’re a racing fan. You grew up a racing fan. What’s a Indy 500 memory that really sticks in your mind that’s really important to you? 

Alex Turner: 

There’s so many because I feel like… Our family always went to the 500 for most of my life. The best one probably it was honestly last year when being on the grid, my sister, she’s in the Purdue pharmacy program and she’s also in the All-American Marching Band. So she got to play with Jim Cornelison with Back Home Again in Indiana. So we were both on the grid together last year. Even though it rained, that was kind of delayed, but that was incredible to share that with her and have two members of our family on the grid. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, that is so special. Wow. 

Alex Turner: 

For me, as an engineer, it’s super important to be engaged with the final product that’s on the track. It’s one thing when you sit at your desk and you design something in CAD and it looks great. You think it’s the best thing ever, and that you think you’re super smart and then it goes on track and it breaks immediately. So to me, that’s really important. That’s honestly where I’ve learned the most. It’s just being at the track and seeing how the mechanics deal with the cars, how the drivers relate to the cars. It’s incredibly important. 

Kate Young: 

Is there a specific memory or moment that you remember that didn’t go as planned and you had to pivot? 

Alex Turner: 

There’s always something that comes up that always surprises you. Sometimes it’s things where you think, “Hey, I think this is not great. Maybe this could be an issue.” That never becomes a problem, and then it’s the one thing you never thought about that breaks, that’s super simple. So it’s just stuff like that all the time. It’s just always surprising, I guess. 

Kate Young: 

What are you looking forward to for this year’s Indy 500? 

Alex Turner: 

So we have the new hybrid system, which is exciting the first time at the Speedway with that. 

Kate Young: 

Tell us about that. 

Alex Turner: 

I think it’s going to be interesting. The weight’s gone up a little bit. The balance of the car is going to change. It’s going to be a little bit more power for qualifying, which is exciting. It was a big challenge last year to kind of package all of that and get that to work properly. So it’ll be really exciting to see that this month I think 

Kate Young: 

Being so close to the IMS, being in downtown Speedway, what does it mean to the Dallara team to be so involved with the iconic Indy 500 every year? 

Alex Turner: 

The location is perfect, obviously. During the month of May, we’re constantly running back and forth. They’re delivering parts or sending people over if there’s something. It’s nice to be just geographically close to the Speedway and then coming into work every morning, I take it for granted sometimes, but it’s like the historic Speedway right there and all of the history. My family’s always been kind of in the Midwest area. I found an old notebook from my great-grandfather that he drew the 1930s of IndyCars going around the track. 

Kate Young: 

Oh my gosh. 

Alex Turner: 

And I never met him, but maybe it’s just in our DNA here. 

Kate Young: 

That is so cool. What a cool story. What do you think Dallara’s broader impact in the world of motorsports is beyond just the Indy 500? 

Alex Turner: 

We have cars in Formula One. We have five or six cars that compete in Le Mans every year. It’s 24 hours to Le Mans. We have the IMSE SportsCar Series here in the U.S. We do F2, F3 over in Europe. We do Japanese Super Formula. So we have almost every continent, every weekend there’s some Dallara car racing. It’s almost like this global empire in a way, I guess. 

Kate Young: 

It is. Have you made the trip to Italy yet? 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, a few times. 

Kate Young: 

You have? 

Alex Turner: 

Yeah, it’s an incredible facility. We have an incredible facility here as well, but over there we have about 60 employees here in the U.S. Italy has the Wind Tunnel, they have their own simulator, almost identical to the one we have. They have about 800 employees over there, so that’s still where most of the company is, and we’re on the phone with them every day on either video conference calls or chatting back and forth with them. So yeah, it’s an incredible, incredible experience over there. 

Kate Young: 

What advice would you have for students who are currently in the Motorsports Engineering program or hope to be one day? 

Alex Turner: 

I would take advantage of all the extracurricular activities that you can, like getting hands-on experience. Obviously internships when they become available, because that’s, I think, where you learn an incredible amount. Always take up opportunities when they come up. Just keep working incredibly hard. It’s really easy to get disheartened whenever classes get tough, they will and they do, but just keep pushing through it. It’s hard. Everyone goes through it. So we’ve all just had to survive and it does get better. It does get better. 

So I have a funny story about this. When we were going around to, I was in high school and we were looking at with my parents, some different colleges and everything. My dad really wanted me to check out the Purdue Indianapolis program. He’s like, “You don’t understand. They have this really cool program with former motorsports engineers and they have all these connections with race teams.” I’m like, “No, I don’t really want to. I want to go to the bigger campus.” I didn’t really want to go. I finally went. It was the most incredible thing ever and after that day, I didn’t want to go anywhere else but Purdue Indy. So I would probably tell myself to shut up and just listen in that scenario. 

Kate Young: 

Follow your instincts there. 

Alex Turner: 

My parents were right on that one. I was wrong. It turned out okay. 

Kate Young: 

They must be so proud to have two kids on the track at the Indy 500. That’s awesome. 

Alex Turner: 

Very lucky. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, finally, in case you weren’t aware of our podcast streak for predicting the winners of the Indy 500, This is Purdue has interviewed multiple Purdue IndyCar engineers who have gone on to win the Indianapolis 500 with their respective teams and drivers. 

In 2022, Purdue alumna Angela Ashmore made history as the first woman to win the Indianapolis 500 as a member of the winning cars crew with IndyCar Driver, Marcus Ericsson. And in 2023, we interviewed two team Penske IndyCar engineers, also Purdue alums, Matt Kuebel and Mike Koenig. They worked on all three team Penske IndyCar entries that raced in the 2023 Indianapolis 500, including Josef Newgarden, who won the 107th running of the Indy 500 that year. And then Joseph won it again in 2024. It just wouldn’t be our annual Indy 500 celebration episode without a few predictions. So I had to clue Alex in on the fun. 

Wait, I have to tell you a funny story. So every year that we do this interview, yours is excluded because you’re not part of a true team, of course, you’re part of Dallara. So the one year we interviewed an engineer at CGR and that driver won the Indy 500. The next year we interviewed Team Penske engineers and that driver won the 500. So we have a track record for predicting the Indy 500 winners. So we have to hear who your prediction is, if you’re allowed to say. 

Alex Turner: 

I think it’s going to be a Dallara car. I think we got a shot this year to do it. So you’ll be able to keep up your streak, which is good. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a biased opinion, but I like being able to keep up my streak. Well, Alex, did I miss anything? Is there anything else you want to tell our listeners? 

Alex Turner: 

I don’t think so. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. 

Kate Young: 

It was great being here at the Dallara U.S. headquarters, and thank you for joining us. 

Alex Turner: 

Thank you very much. 

MUSIC: 

How I long for my Indiana home. 

Drivers, start your engines. 

Kate Young: 

This year’s 109th running of the Indianapolis 500 presented by Gainbridge is on Sunday, May 25th. We can’t thank Alex enough for joining us on This is Purdue, and a special thanks to Dallara for hosting our team for this incredible episode. You can watch more behind the scenes videos with Alex. We challenged him to draw an IndyCar by memory. And spoiler alert, he did a fantastic job. Don’t miss this video and more. Head over to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/@ThisisPurdue. And be sure to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger, Jon Garcia, Thad Boone, and Zach Mogensen. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team Project Manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. Our creative production assistant is Dalani Young. And our This is Purdue intern is Caroline Keim. 

Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@ThisisPurdue. And as always, boiler up. 

Cara Putman: 

This is Cara Putman, and you are listening to, This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you’re listening to, This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking, who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Cara Putman: 

I think that one of the best things that women and really, any student can do when it comes to being job ready is, figure out what your superpower is, because that will help you become more confident as you step out into the workplace. When you invest in that, you really get the opportunity to dig deep and go, this is what I bring to any team, to any employer that nobody else does. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Cara Putman, Director of the Mitch Daniels School of Business’ Brock-Wilson Center for Women in Business, Clinical Associate Professor at Purdue, and bestselling author. Cara is dynamic, she’s enthusiastic, she’s passionate. Our entire team was captivated by her stories, and I know we all learned a thing or two from her practical advice. And it was no surprise that just recently she earned a Charles B. Murphy Award, Purdue’s highest undergraduate teaching honor. Cara has called Purdue home for over 20 years, and has dedicated her life to being an educator and mentor to thousands of students over the years. 

In this episode, you’ll hear more from Cara about why Purdue is a supportive place to learn, grow, and discover your purpose, how the Brock-Wilson Center for Women in Business creates empowered and confident leaders, and what she believes is the biggest ethics issue facing the business world today. Plus, she shares her secrets to finding purpose, success, and belonging, and advice for discovering your superpower in the workplace. And finally, we’ll dive into Cara’s experience as an accomplished author of more than 40 books and how her writing journey helps further energize her work at Purdue. I myself just had the pleasure of reading one of her legal thrillers and I could not put it down. All right, let’s get to it, here’s my conversation with Cara. 

Cara, thank you so much for joining us on This is Purdue, the official university podcast. You’re our second guest in our new studio, we’re so excited to have you. 

Cara Putman: 

It is beautiful and I am delighted to be here. Thanks so much for inviting me. 

Kate Young: 

Of course. So you’re no stranger to podcasting? 

Cara Putman: 

Nope. 

Kate Young: 

You’re an author, you have your own podcast called Book Talk. 

Cara Putman: 

I do. 

Kate Young: 

I’m excited to talk to a fellow podcaster today. 

Cara Putman: 

Well, and it’s kind fun to be on this side of the microphone, although it’s also a little weird to be the one getting the questions instead of giving the questions. 

Kate Young: 

Sure. Well, we hope it’s a good experience for you. 

Cara Putman: 

So far it’s been great. 

Kate Young: 

So you’ve helped champion the Brock-Wilson Center for Women in Business, part of the Daniels School of Business. We are just really excited to dig into everything that you’re doing for women and Boilermakers in business, but let’s kick things off at the beginning. You had an interesting childhood and schooling experience growing up. You finished high school at age 16, you graduated from college at age 20, and you completed your law degree at 27. So, tell us a little bit of background about your schooling experiences growing up. 

Cara Putman: 

I was a first generation homeschooler, so that’s how I graduated from high school at 16, because I was really one of the first homeschoolers in Nebraska, which is where I’m from. And so as soon as it became legal in Nebraska, my parents were some of the first to sign up and go, “Hey, this sounds like a great way to get an education.” So, we started when I was in fifth grade and I was homeschooled from fifth to 10th grade, and then I kind of talked my way into college. 

I had read an article in Homeschool Legal Defense Magazine or something like that, about young man somewhere who went to Harvard at 16. And being the person I am, I was like, well, if he can go to college at 16, I should be able to go to college at 16. And God bless my parents, they went, “Okay. Well, maybe,” but they didn’t shut it down. They were like, “Well, we’ll see if Cara is still serious about that when she gets to 16.” And essentially the moment I turned 16, I went, “Okay, are we going to go sign me up for college?” And they were like, “I don’t even know how we do this.” 

But we had a community college in our town. I’m from North Platte Nebraska, which for those of you who’ve never heard of it, it’s halfway between Omaha and Denver. So, I like to say it’s in the middle of everything and absolutely close to nothing, it’s about four hours from each of those. So we had a public school, a Catholic high school, and the community college. And so the community college really became a fantastic launching pad for me, I think of it as my high school. And so I started at 16 and graduated with my associate’s degree when all of my friends were graduating with their high school diploma. 

Kate Young: 

So then what brought you into law school? 

Cara Putman: 

So it was actually the fact that I had been homeschooled, and I very vividly remember, I was 12. The teachers were trying to get the law reversed to make it illegal to homeschool. And so my mom dragged us along with a lot of other homeschool families, we’re down at the unicameral, Nebraska has a one-house legislature. And so we were down there for a day and I’ll never forget because it was a really long, really boring day, but we were sitting there for an entire day watching the legislative process in the committee room. All these people are getting up and they’re talking about why homeschooling is important and why it’s a necessary educational alternative for families, and the state senators just really aren’t engaged. 

And then the attorney from homeschool legal defense sat down and it was almost night and day. All the senators sat up and they all started really paying attention. And my 12-year-old brain went, “I want my words to matter. And if it takes a law degree for my words to matter, then I think that might be what I need to get.” And that’s that pivotal moment where I started thinking about, maybe law is what I need. And I also think it’s when I started really falling in love with politics. My parents were really engaged with party politics in Nebraska, so we were always going door to door in campaign seasons. 

When I was at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, I paged at the unicameral, I interned for a state senator. So I mean, I was majoring in political science, so I was really engaged in that whole process, which really leads to law school as well. But it was kind of that one-two of watching the process and then watching the impact that an attorney had versus everybody else and I’m like, it really shouldn’t have made a difference. But for some reason that JD at the end of their name really made a difference to those state senators and I went, “I want that.” 

Kate Young: 

That’s incredible at age 12. 

Cara Putman: 

It’s like my path did a little bit of tacking side to side, but I never really deviated from, I think I want to go to law school. 

Kate Young: 

So, let’s talk through your Boilermaker journey. How did you get to Purdue, how did you join us here? 

Cara Putman: 

Funny story, I didn’t even know Purdue was a thing. There are a lot of people who will be on either coast, they’ll be all over the world. My husband and I travel, and he’s always in his Purdue gear and it doesn’t matter what airport we’re in, you’ll always hear, “Boiler up, hammer down, boiler up, hammer down.” And so, there’s such an amazing community of Boilermakers, but at the time I was at Nebraska as an undergrad, we were not in the same athletic conference like we are now. And so, I was just not really familiar with Purdue. But then I married a Boilermaker and very quickly became familiar with Purdue. And he followed me to DC where after graduation, we both worked in the DC area for a while in the nonprofit world. And I went to law school while working, clerked for a federal judge. I was headed to the Department of Justice to work in their honors program and I was really excited, it was like my dream job at the time. 

And then my husband came home from work one day and he said, “I just saw this listing in the Chronicle of Higher Education for a job at Purdue for the Jischke,” what we came to find out was the Jischke Capital Campaign, and it was for the College of Ag, which is his alma mater. And I was like, “I think you’ve got to apply,” and my HR brain went, “And they would be absolutely insane not to hire you,” And that was in April. And I really started packing then, even though I knew I was headed to the Department of Justice for my dream job. 

And it was August when Purdue finally got through all the hoops. And so the week I was supposed to start my dream job, we were moving to West Lafayette, a town I’d never really been to. I’d been on campus one time, I knew there was a Cracker Barrel and there was Purdue, and that was it. So I told him, I was like, “I can do anything for two years, as long as there’s a Walmart.” And that was why we came here, because I knew Indy was an hour away, Chicago was two hours away, and that was 23 years ago. So we got here and obviously fell in love with the community, and Purdue has been really good to us. 

Kate Young: 

And here you are today. 

Cara Putman: 

And here we are today. 

Kate Young: 

Cara digs more into both the Daniels School of Business and the Brock-Wilson Center’s efforts on recruiting young women, and what led to her passion for mentoring and leading women who are pursuing business careers. 

Cara Putman: 

It’s something that’s really fun to think about, because when I look back on my life, I think about the moment I stepped onto the campus at Mid-Plains Community College, as the 16-year-old who really didn’t know hardly anything. I mean, I’d been homeschooled for six years and I think about Mrs. McGann, who took me under her wing and gave me the opportunity to be the student body president and to do some different things like that. I think about … Mr. Babcock who were on the Truman Selection Committee at Mid-Plains Community College, which then I was a finalist, that then got me on track to at the university become a Truman Scholar, which then actually allowed me to go to grad school. Because this is first gen, I didn’t know how I was going to pay for all of these things. 

And so every time I look back, there have been people who have poured into me and have mentored me because I didn’t have this wealth of family experience. We were entrepreneurs. My parents were very much at the time, I was navigating this whole college experience, they were helpful as much as they knew to be helpful, but they were also really focused on building our businesses. And also telling me, “Cara, you’ve got three siblings and so we don’t know how much we can help you pay for college because you’ve got three siblings coming behind you.” And so it was all these different people at Mid-Plains. 

At the University of Nebraska Lincoln, there was one of my professors, the department head that I think every time he had office hours, I was in his office. Sometimes I don’t even know what we talked about. I mean, I look back now and I’m like, I am surprised he didn’t see me coming and slam the door, because he had to be like, “Oh my gosh, here comes Cara again.” And yet at the same time, if he hadn’t done that, I don’t know that I would’ve actually gotten into grad school because it was him and then the executive secretary of the Truman Foundation, who both gave me the advice of, “You are graduating at barely 20,” my birthday’s the end of March and I graduated at the beginning of May. 

So I mean, I was a baby 20-year-old and they’re like, “You’re going to go to grad school. You have this scholarship, but let’s take a couple years and figure out what you really want to do.” Because I got the Truman on, I’m going to get a PhD in international relations. The Iron Curtain had just fallen and I was like, I want to be part of figuring out what’s going to happen in this power vacuum in Europe and all of this. What’s going to happen now and what are we going to do? And I look at the world today and I’m like, we still got to figure out what’s going to happen in this power vacuum and everything that’s going on. And they were like, “Maybe that’s what you’ll do, or maybe you’ll go to law school.” And I had another professor telling me, “You should really get an MBA in HR,” and none of them were wrong. I ended up with an MBA and I ended up with a law degree, but that advice to go work for a few years and figure out what you really want to do. 

So I think those experiences, coming back to your question, is what really birthed this passion for mentoring today’s students. And I think it’s why I am so passionate about Purdue and what we do, because we are a land-grant university. We are all about fundamentally, if we ever lose that part of our DNA, that we are a land-grant, we should be the place for first generation students, because there are still a lot of first generation students out there. We should never lose sight of the fact that there are students who they come here, and one of the things I tell students every time I see them on tours, I’m like, “You are getting a lot of pressure today to know exactly what you’re going to do and you’re 18 years old,” some of them are 17, “And you’re going to change your mind six times.” 

And I always tell mom and dad, “Cover your ears, but actually don’t, because it’s okay.” Because our advisor to student ratio, at least at Daniels, is one to 250. The national standard is one to 750. We are scaffolded to help students and to provide the tools that they need to be successful. So you don’t have to panic when your student calls you, says, “Mom, dad, guess what? I want to change my major.” You should be able to go, “It’s okay. Purdue is going to help you through that process.” And there’s people like me, there’s people like their advisors, we’re here to help. That’s what gives us our joy. All of that I think comes together to kind of fuel me to be like, how can we create more of those structures and systems and safe spaces and communities of belonging, so that every student at Purdue can absolutely thrive? 

Kate Young: 

And how do you guys within Daniels School of Business recruit the types of people that you want to see come through the school? Like you said, first generation, women, how do you guys do that? 

Cara Putman: 

It really is challenging in higher education right now, because one of the just realities of demographics right now is what we’re calling the demographic cliff. Because in general in higher education, there’s this cliff of there aren’t as many 18-year-olds today as there were five years ago or 10 years ago, and there’s going to be even fewer starting, I think it’s 2025. Oh, that’s this year, oops. And so it’s like there’s just this in general, smaller pool of 18-year-olds. And then in Indiana, we have this added demographic challenge that I really want to crack, because I’m like, don’t tell me no because if you tell me no, I’m like, we can solve it, there’s a way to fix it. But in Indiana, there’s still a lot of students who don’t think they need to go to college, period. And especially with men, which I think is just fascinating. And I think when you talk to different people, they’ll say it’s because of unions, it’s because of agriculture, but those demographics are shifting in the job market. 

So I think part of what is happening with the semiconductor plants coming and AI and all these different things, we’re doing some really interesting things with the economic development job marketplace that we are going to have a different story to tell high school students, but we’ve got to bridge that divide between high school and college. And so, that’s part of what we’re actually doing at the Brock-Wilson Center and I’m so proud of it because when we go out to recruit, if we are just talking about women in business, it is such a miss. It’s a big part of it, but we are recruiting for Daniels and we are recruiting for the university, because we’re going to the DECA State Conference, we’re going to junior achievement. 

I mean, we’ve got to talk to junior high and middle school students, because the decision that eighth graders are making related to math is going to be the deciding factor on whether or not they get into Purdue. Purdue is an elite university, and so if you are not calculus ready, you will not get into engineering, you will not get into science, and you will not get into Daniels, period, end of story, stop. And so, we have actually got to be talking to students and families in seventh and eighth grade because in eighth grade right now, they’ve already decided what math class they’re going to take their freshman year. But then we also have to talk to them in ninth grade when it gets hard, because their high school advisor is going to tell them, “Oh, it’s okay. Hop off the honors track. No big deal.” It’s actually a huge deal because now you have just hopped off being ready to have an application for college at Purdue, that means you’re going to get accepted. Ninth grade. 

Do you think a 14 and 15-year-old is going to make the hard choice if they don’t have people at home saying, “Grid it out, sweetheart. Grid it out, young man,” because what you’re doing today is going to have a huge impact on what you’re doing tomorrow. And so we have got to be interacting with those students at a really young age. And so that’s part of what we’re doing with the Brock-Wilson Center, but we’re one little tiny unit on campus trying to make an impact and really testing some different spaces where we can go, where other organizations are already pulling together our target market, and then just kind of lend strength to what they’re already doing. 

Kate Young: 

Today’s business world is full of complex ethical challenges. And with all of the headlines in the recent years, Cara knew she had to take charge and prepare her Boilermaker students to navigate these challenges with practical hands-on advice. So in 2024, Cara piloted a core ethics course for Daniels School of Business students. Cara discusses this class and why it’s fundamental for students to be knowledgeable about ethics in the business world. 

Cara Putman: 

Ethics is one of those things that all you have to do is look at the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, any broadcast of your choice to see that people still struggle to make good choices on a day-to-day basis. Think about if you have kids, what’s one of the things we’re always telling them? “Make good choices.” I tell my son all the time, our youngest, I’m like, “Use your powers for good.” We’re always telling our kids that, but there seems to be a disconnect between when they’re kids to when they become professionals. 

And so about 2018, 2019, I became the principal investigator with a group of faculty, and it’s not all just in Daniels, we’ve got a few from Polytech, that we are studying, how can we more effectively teach ethics at the undergraduate level? The Blake Family Ethics Center is an outgrowth in part of that work. What we are doing in this one credit course is kind of that foundation, but we’ve developed a four-year model that we hope will at the end of it, when students have spent four years with us, when they leave, they will have a toolkit but they will also have practiced, because I think that’s important. And we think the research shows that, that the more interactions you have with ethics, the more times you have to practice ethics, the more times you have to pre-think, what would I do when I am confronted with those tough choices? Not that you will do it perfectly every time, but you will be better prepared to then make that hard choice, because life is filled with choices. 

And the other thing we’re trying to do is remove ethics from being over here. So when we make decisions in a business context, most people will tell you there’s a people decision, there’s a finance decision, there’s a supply chain decision, there’s all these different things, and then ethics is over here in a corner. And it really, it should just be another part of this decision-making process. So we’re trying to help people to see it’s just integrated in instead of being the afterthought. And so that’s really what we are trying to do with this modeling. 

And so we’ve been able to take it, I’ve presented it internationally at conferences, nationally, so we’re trying to get a lot of feedback on it and get thoughts. We’re starting to write it up and put it, disseminate it in different journals and things like that, because another one, I guess my foundational philosophies is, if we’re doing something and we really believe it’s excellent, then we should be opening it up for other people to challenge us on it, but also to disseminate it in a way that other people can replicate it 

Kate Young: 

Can use it. 

Cara Putman: 

Yeah. 

Kate Young: 

What do you think the biggest ethics challenges are right now today in the business world? 

Cara Putman: 

I think it really comes down to being willing to walk away. I’m a big believer in giving people practical tools, and this is going to sound so simple, but one of the things I am constantly telling my students, and they’ll even tell you, practical tips of Putman, is you need a six months emergency fund. So that if you’re asked to do something that’s illegal or unethical, you can walk away, because often people don’t leave even when they know they should because they don’t feel like they can leave. 

And so if we are helping students to pre-think, okay, these are my non-negotiable, so we’re asking first year students in that class to write down, these are my non-negotiable values. And I even tell them, I’m like, “Unless I can see that this value could lead you to jail, I might not agree with you but I’m not going to tell you you’re wrong. Unless I’m like, I think this one could actually lead you to jail, then I might ask you to reconsider it. You can write what you want, I just want you to know your why, because you have to know why it’s something that’s really important to you or it’s not going to actually help you make choices.” I would love in three years to have them rewrite it and see if it changes, see if there’s any movement in it. This is our first year of the longitudinal, so maybe we’ll be able to do that, maybe not, we’ll see. 

But then we’re also giving them other tools, like really quick okay, here are three questions that walk you through three of the big philosophical ideas and giving them lots of things. But I think seriously, one of the most practical is, have a six-month emergency fund. So you can literally walk away. Because often, like WorldCom, two of the people who went to jail knew what they were doing was wrong. They wrote letters of resignation, but they didn’t submit them because they thought they didn’t have a choice. 

Kate Young: 

Because they didn’t have the savings, or at least in their mind, they wanted to keep making money and not walk away from it. 

Cara Putman: 

Because the WorldCom’s headquarters was in a small town, smallish town, 20,000 people in Mississippi, and they were both the primary breadwinner in their family. I don’t want our students to be in that situation. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a great, great idea. What was it, practical tips with Putman? 

Cara Putman: 

Yeah, practical tips with Putman. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a perfect tagline. 

With your law background, plenty of cases, you teach students about plenty of court cases that have affected women specifically in the workplace. Why are you passionate about sharing these cases with your students? 

Cara Putman: 

I think it’s really important for students to understand the context of where we’ve been. And so understanding work cases is one way to do that. 

So another meeting I had was related to study abroad program that I’m taking students on this summer in Prague, and one of the things we were talking about was Czech Republic, Prague, it has been this crossroads of so much of history and so much that has happened that I don’t think our students understand. They don’t understand it was behind the Iron Wall, they don’t understand that the Nazis overtook the country during World War II. So it was helping them to see that, like taking them to a bomb shelter that was in place during the time that it was behind the Iron Curtain actually is not a bad cultural trip, especially in the context of what’s happening in the world today. And so helping students to understand where we’ve come from and where that might help us see where we’re going, or help us avoid certain things, that’s actually a part of what education is. 

And so, one of the things that I do appreciate about teaching at Purdue is the fact that we followed the Chicago principles. So I’m always in the first day or two of class level setting with students, that one of the things that’s absolutely fundamental. You don’t have to agree with me on everything, and in fact, you shouldn’t. I don’t want to create a bunch of mini Cara’s, that would be an absolutely terrifying world. We don’t need that, but we do have to respect each other. We do have to have civility, because I teach law and ethics, you’re not going to agree with me. You’re not. But if we can’t actually have the conversations, the world is a really scary place, because groupthink is actually not a good thing. 

I have to in ethics, I have to talk about confirmation bias. I have to talk about framing bias. I have to talk about overconfidence bias. I have to, I have to. If students aren’t willing to go with me there, the class isn’t going to work and I’m not going to be able to do my job. But that means I have to respect them and they have to actively feel that respect from me, and then they have to respect me back. It’s this really interesting two-way street. And with the ethics class, they’re first year students. And so it’s been really challenging in some ways to be able to real quickly in an eight week class, establish that and build that rapport, and get to the place where I’m like, no, I’m serious about this. I really do want to have these conversations. And if I’m playing devil’s advocate, it doesn’t mean I don’t like you or I’m not agreeing with you, but we have to have this full enriched discussion so that we can actually get into, well, what does this look like? 

And guess what? Not everybody’s going to agree with you in real life, so you have to learn how to handle this. It can be a challenge, but it’s so important in this world today to know how to have those conversations and actually be able to do it and do it well. 

Kate Young: 

And be able to exist with other people who may not have your same beliefs and have that respect still. 

Cara Putman: 

Absolutely, we need that. If I just stay with people who only think like I do, my life is very narrow and I am missing out on the richness and diversity of experience. And if people who don’t think like I do are doing the same thing, there’s so much richness in the middle, but there’s also a lot of danger because we’re not seeing all the opportunities and we’re going to miss a lot of answers to problems because we’re just so entrenched in our spaces. And so we’re not going to solve the most challenging, pressing problems that our world is facing today. 

Kate Young: 

As the Director of the Brock-Wilson Center for Women in Business, Cara has seen expansive growth in the center itself and many of the programs within it, including the Women in Business Learning Community and the Confident Transitions Pathway. She shares more about this growth and why these resources for Boilermaker students are so unique. 

Cara Putman: 

It has just been so exciting because of the transformation that we’re seeing in students’ lives. If it’s just a numbers game, then it’s really, it can be a waste of resources, but when you see the impact it has on students, and numbers is a part of that story. 

So when I stepped into this role in August of 2021, it’s been three and a half years. For example, there’s an ambassador program, so it was called Ambassadors, I haven’t changed the name. There were six students who were ambassadors when I came in. Those are students who want to be part of the Brock-Wilson Center, and they help us with recruiting, but then they also help us create community for the students who are in Daniels and do programming. That program went from 10, well, six to 10, to 35, to 80, and now this year it’s 205. So it’s like this hockey stick. When it went from 10 to 35, it was like, oh, that’s really good. And then it went to 85 and it was like, oh my goodness, that’s great. I mean, more than doubling, and how do you keep that community, that belonging, that we’re all here supporting each other? And then it grew to 205, but that’s basically 15 to 18% of the women at Daniels are ambassadors. 

Kate Young: 

Wow. 

Cara Putman: 

That’s pretty cool. 

Kate Young: 

Yeah. 

Cara Putman: 

And then our learning community is for first year women and they take classes together and they’ve got similar communities and science and technology and engineering. We’ve got a mentoring program. They take classes together, they do professional development. We take them to the career fair so they can get the overwhelm out of the way when they’re not really looking for a job, but then their sophomore year, they know what to expect. We do Friendsgiving and Galentine, so there’s fun activities, we take them to Exploration Acres. So, just all these really cool things so the moment they step onto campus, we are there at the residence hall to meet them so that they have community immediately. It went from 10 to last year, this year we had to beg for more spaces so we could have 40, and we’re begging for more spaces so we can have 50 next year. And we just won Learning Community of the Year and Signature Event of the year. 

Kate Young: 

Wow, congratulations. 

Cara Putman: 

So I was like, yay, we’re doing something right. And so it’s just been fun. I look around, I’m like, okay, what are we doing? What’s already existing? And then how can we, if it’s excellent, how do we scale it? How do we make it more impactful? And if it’s excellent, how do we invite more people to it? Why should people go to Harvard? They should come to Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

I love that. 

Cara Putman: 

Mic drop. 

Kate Young: 

That’s incredible. So in the fall of 2024, women made up 36% of the Daniels School of Business class, which is an uptick from 32% in 2022 and 2023. This increase might not seem like a big deal to people outside. 

Cara Putman: 

Big deal, yeah. 

Kate Young: 

Tell us about that. What obstacles do you believe that women still face in business today as well? 

Cara Putman: 

If you don’t live in the recruiting space, you could go, “Oh my gosh, that sounds terrible,” but if you look at the broader landscape, if you do benchmarking against other big 10 schools or business schools in general, it’s actually pretty shocking that that 32 to 36%, it’s kind of the standard. Wharton and maybe one or two other schools, Rutgers actually, has about 50% women, which I still am trying to wrap my mind around it. I think it might be because it’s an urban, more of a commuter type of school, but I haven’t really been able to figure out what the secret sauce is for Rutgers. But Wharton has 50% women at the undergraduate level. And then it really is this 32, 36, every once in a while you’ll get someone at 40%. 

And so my best guess is, when you get women who are good in math and science, what are they told? “Go into engineering. You should be a doctor.” And that’s fabulous if that’s what you want to be, but there are a lot of young women who don’t want to be engineers and they don’t like blood. 

Kate Young: 

They don’t want to be in healthcare. 

Cara Putman: 

Hello? That was me. I’m like, ugh, I went to law school because I don’t want to do blood. And so, part of what we are trying to do at the Brock-Wilson Center is just help people, young women in particular, but really all students, to understand that there are some fabulous opportunities in business if you are really good at math. And if you’re good at math and science, Purdue is the place for you because we’ve got integrated business and engineering. And that is a phenomenal degree for people who are like, “I really like science, but I don’t know that I want to do full on engineering because IBE is first year engineering and then three years of business with some engineering woven in. And we’re looking at other degrees like that where it’s going to be this incredible blend, and that’s something that you get at Purdue that you cannot get at any other school. I mean, we really are the crossroads of technology and business. That is something that we really need to be trumpeting from every rooftop and getting the message out. 

But what happens is when you have 32, 35, 36% women is, especially as you get into higher division courses, it is not unusual for our women students to realize, I am one or two or three in my class. And so what has been happening is we’ve had these clubs start cropping up, women in consulting, women in econ, women in just all these different, women in law. And so really coming around them and saying okay, first off, do you really need a separate club? And then if so, how do we support you so you get that… Because what they’re signaling is, we need community, we need a place where we can belong. And to me, what belonging is, is it’s just, I don’t have to pretend. I can just be myself. I have a place where people are glad to see me and I can just be myself. 

Kate Young: 

You’re full of advice, you’re full of practical tips, as we’ve heard. What is your single biggest piece of advice for women in business when it comes to networking, mentoring, and being kind of job ready after graduation? 

Cara Putman: 

I think that one of the best things that women and really any student can do when it comes to being job ready is, figure out what your superpower is because that will help you become more confident as you step out into the workplace. It’s one of the reasons I created Confident Transitions for our students. And I think when you’re at Purdue, again, you have this low-hanging fruit that’s available to you, because Purdue is already invested in Gallup Strengths, and so you already know what your five superpowers are. The question is, are you going to invest beyond taking that survey, that assessment when you’re onboarding as a first-year student? When you invest in that, you really get the opportunity to dig deep and go, “This is what I bring to any team, to any employer that nobody else does,” and that combination of the top five, when you put it all together, it’s like 33 million to one that anybody else is going to have that same unique combination. 

Second, I’m an activator, achiever, input, maximizer, strategic. So I see possibilities where nobody else does, and I automatically see five ways to make it happen. I’m going to make it happen because I’m an activator and I’m an achiever, and because I’m input and I’m constantly taking in information, when it’s time to do it, I already have the information there and I can connect it and I can get it done. And so, I’m a unicorn in higher education when you put all that together. It’s really great because I can then walk into a room and I can be like, “Okay, here’s where I add value. Here’s where I get joy. And when you put that all together, I’m pretty much a passion explosion,” and it’s really fun. The earlier you can figure that out and start going, “Okay, I’m going to do this and I like this,” and then be ready to experiment and be ready to fail fast, because the faster you fail, the faster you can get onto the next thing. 

And so college is that safe place to fail, because you’re not failing on a $10 million account or $100 million account, you’re failing on an event that yeah, it might be embarrassing, but it’s not the end of the world. You’re not going to lose your job most of the time and if you do, it’s an appointment in a student club, move on. It’s not the end of the world. Find that thing that you do that nobody else does, and be willing to try things because the cost of failure is so low in college and it’s so much lower to do it here. 

Kate Young: 

I love that. Find your superpower. Cara’s advice there had, thinking about what my superpower is, and I hope you all can reflect on yours, because everyone has one. So how has Cara seen all of these robust Purdue resources impact young Boilermakers firsthand? 

Cara Putman: 

Young Boilermakers at Purdue have so much available to them through alumni connections, through our amazing connections with donors who just pour their resources into… Even just thinking about study abroad, there are so many study abroad scholarships. I mean, my one regret from undergrad is I didn’t go. And I think that’s why I’m so passionate about taking students on study abroad, and there are resources to help them do that. And that’s just one example. 

Undergraduate research, there are resources to help students do undergraduate research and so many great opportunities. And so it’s really just helping students make the connections, and sometimes they just don’t know where to go and what those resources are. And sometimes it’s helping faculty make those connections, and that’s fun too, being kind of that… If you’ve ever read Malcolm Gladwell’s Tipping Point, he talks about there’s the early adopters and there’s the connectors, and then I forget what the others are. I am not an early adopter because I am an attorney, I’m risk averse. I want to make sure it works before I jump head in. But then once it does, I’m like, I am all in. 

And I love connecting people. I don’t silo. And so I love when I could be like, “Oh, you want to do that? Well, here are the people you need to connect with.” And being networked across campus or being networked off of campus, so I could be like, you’ve got a great idea and you’ve got a great idea, but you don’t know each other. And so if we can get you together, it’s going to be amazing for our students and for you. And when it works across the river, how much better because now we’re getting off of campus. I get goosebumps, it’s so cool. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. I want to go back because at the beginning of this, I mentioned you’re a very successful author, you’ve written over 40 books. You also have a podcast called Book Talk. So, tell us about the types of books you write. We have some, if you’re watching on YouTube, we have some placed throughout our set here, but I’m really excited to hear more about your writing in your books. 

Cara Putman: 

I am editing book 43 and 44 right now. 

Kate Young: 

Oh my goodness. 

Cara Putman: 

And book 42 comes out in April. So by the time this is out, it will have been in bookstores for a month. But I write primarily books centered around either World War II history, finding those kind of unknown stories and bringing them to light, or tapping into my legal knowledge of writing legal suspense or romantic suspense. 

Kate Young: 

Amazing. So, tell us about this passion for writing. You’ve had such an interesting career path, education path. Where did this passion for writing and becoming an author come from? 

Cara Putman: 

I have had it literally since I was about 13 or 14, and it came from being kind of that hubris of the young. My favorite authors weren’t writing fast enough, and I went, well, if they can’t write faster, I guess I’ll just have to write my own books. And then I started college and got married, but the passion for writing just never went away. 

So when my husband was working on a master’s degree and we had two young kids, so they were going to bed at 8:00 and he was starting to study, I was like, well, I guess now’s a good time to try writing. And I was really fortunate. A lot of people, when they start writing, it’ll be 6, 7, 8, 9 years before they get a contract, and my journey was a year. And then my first book came out and a year later it won a major award, and I’ve been writing two or three books a year ever since. So to have 43, 44 books, and I started writing in 2005. So in 20 years, it’s pretty incredible. I’m very blessed. 

Kate Young: 

How do you think that that helps you, this journey of being an author and enjoying the writing process? I can tell you’re passionate about it, helps you with everything that you do with Purdue? 

Cara Putman: 

I think it’s this interesting balance because when I started writing, I was a lawyer by day and a writer by night, and it was that balance of left brain and right brain. And so with the teaching, it’s still a lot of, I get to do the left brain of, okay, how do I get all these concepts across to students? And then the teaching itself can be the right brain, how do you present it? And then the writing is right brain, creating and all that, and then the editing’s very left brain. And so it was just this, I guess I’m ambidextrous when it comes to, I really like to use both sides of the brain and I miss it when I’m not writing because I’m like, I really just wanted to have one book. I want to be able to say I’d written a book and gotten it published. And now I’m like, okay, so I’ve got this idea for the next series and I’ve got to get it put together so my agent can send it out to publishers. And every time I’m like, do I want to do this again? 

And now of course with the Purdue Book campaign, they’re like, now we want you to write nonfiction. I’m like, do I want to do that? Because it’s very different to do academic writing and the fiction, but it just feeds a different part of me, so I love it. 

Kate Young: 

That’s amazing. So many people dream of writing a book. We were talking before this, some of the girls, and they’re like, “It’s on my bucket list to become a writer.” What advice would you give to young writers or really any writer who wants to get published? 

Cara Putman: 

Yeah, I love teaching at writing conferences and helping people have their writing dreams come to life, because studies out there that say something like 85 or 90% of people say they want to be a writer. And some of the best advice I can give is, number one, you have to be a reader because if you want to write, you have to know what makes a good book. And one of the best ways to do that is just to read voraciously, particularly in the genre you think you want to write. But I also think it’s good to kind of read across because you can pull in techniques that work well from other genres. 

And then the other is, you have to put your butt in a chair and you have to actually write. And so if you write 500 words a day, which is about two double spaced pages, over the course of a year, you’ll get to roughly 100,000 word book. Two pages a day, it’s not that much. Break it up into small chunks. Once you know what you’re doing, it’s about 20 minutes. Take part of your lunch, stop binging a show. I gave up watching TV when I started writing. So there are a lot of TV shows that people will talk about that I have no idea what they’re talking about. I had to give something up to make space for writing. I am catching up on a few shows now. I did watch the first season of Only Murders in the Building, and we’re watching High Potential right now.  

Kate Young: 

I love High Potential! 

Cara Putman: 

I know, it reminds me of Castle. I’m like, I kind of like the energy behind it because you can learn a lot from really good TV shows or all the Marvel movies, I love that. Well, now they’re going downhill, but there’s so much on character development from the Iron Man one through Endgame. There’s so much you can learn about character development and things like that. But even then, my family was like, “Seriously, can’t you just watch a movie?” I’m like, no. I am studying for character and all this kind of stuff, but figure out what you’re going to give up so that you can make space to write two pages, a day. 

Kate Young: 

Stop scrolling on social. 

Cara Putman: 

Yes, exactly. 

Kate Young: 

Stop watching Netflix. 

Cara Putman: 

Instagram. Do you really need Instagram or whatever it is, TikTok? You can find the time. 

Kate Young: 

I love that. So I want to bring us back to Purdue and the Daniels School of Business. What do you envision DSV to look like in five years? 

Cara Putman: 

Well, in five years we will have our new building, and that will be amazing because it’s student facing. The Brock-Wilson Center will be on the fourth floor, very excited about that. We will probably have 4,000 to 4,500 undergraduate students. They will be and continue to be some of the top business students in the country that I will love teaching. And I think what we will see is we will probably have a couple new majors. There will be a class, at least one class on artificial intelligence. That one’s rolling out in the fall. Hopefully we’ll have a law major, we’re working on that. 

What you’ll see is that the faculty and the students will really be engaged on the question of, how does business connect with technology? And I’m really excited to see what we can do with having access to Indy in the new way. I think that there’s opportunities for engagement with all of the great companies in Indianapolis that when it comes to opportunities for students to really get in there and apply what they’re learning in the classroom to real world problems. In a way that, not that we couldn’t do it here, but actually getting to go to the company and see the systems and see the processes, like a living lab. I think that having the Indy campus will allow us to do some things like that in new and fresh ways. 

Kate Young: 

What about the future of the business world in five years, what do you hope to see? 

Cara Putman: 

I would love to see, you’re putting on my ethics hat. I would love to see a world where there aren’t so many scandals, where the business leaders really are thinking about shareholders and employees, and thinking about the long-term impacts of their decisions in a way that balances those interests. You can create shareholder value without having to sacrifice treating people well. 

Kate Young: 

That’s perfect advice. Well, we can’t thank you enough for joining us. 

Cara Putman: 

Yeah, thanks so much. 

Kate Young: 

Is there anything else that you would like to share with our listeners? Anything I missed? 

Cara Putman: 

This has been so much fun. Thank you for having me today, and Purdue is just such a great place to be. I’ve been really, really blessed to be here for all these years, and boiler up. 

Kate Young: 

We can’t thank Cara enough for joining us on on This is Purdue. You can watch more behind-the-scenes videos with Cara, including her advice for upcoming graduates, and more details about her favorite characters from her award-winning books. Check out our podcast YouTube channel, youtube.com/@ThisisPurdue. And of course, be sure to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger, Jon Garcia, Thad Boone, and Zach Mogensen. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team Project Manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini  Malshe. Our creative production assistant is Dalani Young. And our This is Purdue. intern is Caroline Keim. 

Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@ThisisPurdue. And as always, boiler up. 

Mung Chiang: 

Hello, this is Mung, president of Purdue University. 

Kate Young: 

And I’m Kate Young, host of the This Is Purdue podcast. We are here at the Fast Company Grill at South by Southwest, and we’re talking innovating what matters and driving pharma forward. 

Mung Chiang: 

Join us and Boiler up! 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young, and you’re listening to This Is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni taking small steps towards their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Mung Chiang: 

Purdue has an industry-university collaboration. Because it’s the pharmaceutical industry and university talent pipeline research innovation together that has been defining the past decades and will continue to define the future ones. 

Kate Young: 

In this special episode of This Is Purdue, we are featuring the live Brands That Matter panel spotlighted at the Fast Company Grill during the annual South by Southwest Conference and Festivals in Austin, Texas. South by Southwest is one of the world’s biggest festivals, bringing together innovators, creatives, and industry leaders, and our Purdue brand studio team was so excited to be there for this on-location episode in partnership with Fast Company. 

Now, for this episode, I handed off my host microphone to moderator Shibani Joshi as Purdue president Mung Chiang took the stage as a panelist at the Fast Company Grill in the panel titled Innovating What Matters: Driving Pharma Forward. But first, a little bit of background. How exactly did Purdue end up on this global stage at South by Southwest? Well, for the fourth consecutive year, Purdue University was named to Fast Company’s Brands That Matter annual list. This distinction recognizes organizations for their ability to convey their brand, perform their mission, and advance their ideals with intention and authenticity, and Purdue stands proudly as the only university to make the list. 

Purdue has also emerged as a global leader in pharmaceutical and biotech innovation, collaborating with corporate leaders and pharma partners to tackle critical issues facing the industry. Plus, pharmaceutical manufacturing is a key component of Purdue’s One Health initiative, which advances knowledge and innovation related to animal, human, and environmental health and well-being through novel interdisciplinary research and industry partnerships.  So naturally, President Chang was a perfect fit to discuss pharma innovation as part of this panel. 

Now, remember, this is audio directly from the live panel, so it’s going to sound a little bit different from our other podcast episodes. This Is Purdue is proud to share Purdue’s giant leaps in the future of pharma, cross-industry partnerships, and the importance of forging meaningful connections with our audiences. Let’s get to it. Here’s Shibani kicking off the panel. 

Shibani Joshi: 

Good morning, and welcome to what I think is going to be a great conversation and a great morning. We are going to talk about the importance of cross-industry partnerships, particularly in the pharmaceutical industry, which is facing a crossroads these days with advances in technology, the need for sustainable solutions, as well as the opportunity to reimagine how we develop and deliver drugs in the marketplace. 

One of the bold ideas that we are seeing play out in industry around this is cross-industry partnerships, and that’s something that’s happening with all of our guests here today, and they’re talking about how they’re using cross-industry partnerships to advance their priorities and their strategy. I’d like to introduce our panel as we kick things off. Sean Bruich is the senior vice president of AI and Data at Amgen, President Mung Chiang of Purdue University… All right, in the house. 

Mung Chiang: 

Boiler up! 

Shibani Joshi: 

… Tatyana Kanzaveli, the CEO of Open Health Network. But before we jump in, I’d like to thank our partner, Purdue University, for making this conversation happen. 

And I want to start off this morning by taking a big picture kind of approach. There’s a lot of hype and promise around AI, right? Everybody’s doing AI in almost every single industry, but I’d love to hear from you particularly, how are you thinking about AI, prioritizing it, thinking about the pain points that need to come first within your specific organizations? And I’d like to start with you, Sean. 

Sean Bruich: 

Great. Well, thanks so much for having me. Everybody, it’s great to meet you. If you don’t know Amgen, Amgen’s one of the largest biotechnology companies in the United States. They make a whole host of medicines that serve areas of great unmet medical need. And I joined about six months ago to lead the AI and Data team, as you mentioned. 

We’re focused really on two zones. The first is around drug discovery and using AI and machine learning tools to augment the incredible work of our scientists to find new opportunities to treat disease, and then the second is to move faster in bringing these medicines to market. And that’s a more classic kind of approach to machine learning and AI around reducing cycle times, improving supply chain efficiency, improving manufacturing efficiency. So those are the two big zones that I’ve been focused on since I joined. 

Shibani Joshi: 

Terrific. President Chiang. 

Mung Chiang: 

Well, good morning, everyone. First of all, Purdue is very proud to be part of Fast Company Grill here. We’re getting grilled, I guess, right now. Why is it so hot here in winter? And great to be at South by. Purdue is proud to be a Brand That Matters for four years in a row now, and we are a brand that talks about excellence at scale, so 58,000 students on main campus, top 10 public university in the United States. We’re proud to be creating jobs and workforce at the same time along with innovation. 

So on AI for pharmaceutical industry, you can think of drug discovery, and then think about drug manufacturing and storage and transportation. On both fronts, AI can play a transformational role. Drug discovery front, you’ve got computational power coupled with the domain expertise on the data and on the manufacturing front. So Purdue created two years ago the Bill and Sherry Young Institute for Pharmaceutical Manufacturing Innovation, named after a legendary Boilermaker in the pharma industry, Bill Young. And we’re looking at how AI can enable deep automation in order to create a whole new set of manufacturing capabilities, both small molecules and biologics. So there’s huge transformational potential and we need to have the university industry working together, just like Bill Young Institute now working with Eli Lilly and Company and Merck in a consortium. 

Shibani Joshi: 

Tatyana? 

Tatyana Kanzaveli: 

Hi, thank you for having me here. And I’m a founder and CEO of Open Health Network. We started the company as AI in health care from day one. As soon as gen AI came around, we started deploying gen AI. And specifically related to pharma, we developed clinical trial protocol generation tool that automatically creates clinical trial protocols that reduces time from months and almost years to a few weeks. We also use gen AI for behavioral interventions, which is extremely important in clinical trials that adherence is low, so how you motivate people to do that. And the other area that is important for diversity in clinical trials is having representative data sets, so we build gen AI engine that generates synthetic data to complement real data to make sure we have representative data sets. Honored to be on the panel with you guys. 

Shibani Joshi: 

Let’s dig into this cross-industry partnership idea. President Chiang, I know this is something that has been a strategic imperative at Purdue across many industries, not just pharma. Tell us a little bit about what your collaboration looks like and what are the pain points of industry that this partnership is able to solve. For example, a skilled workforce, that’s a critical issue for the development and the future of pharma, but what else can come about from something like this? 

Mung Chiang: 

Yeah, I’ll give you two concrete examples. First is that we have a initiative called One Health at Purdue, human, animal, plant health working together. And we have a great partner called Elanco. It is the second largest in the world in animal vaccine. So we’re creating a One Health Innovation District in Indianapolis, where Purdue is opening an urban campus. 

Another example is Lilly Company. So Eli Lilly has been working with Purdue over the past several years on a $142 million project. $100 million is for research, $42 million is for scholarships, the Lilly Scholars, and workforce development, and internship with Lilly. Now, Lilly is building also a $13 billion huge manufacturing site right in between West Lafayette, north end, and Indy south end of Purdue’s main campus. So we call this America’s Hard-Tech Corridor, microelectronics, transportation, aerospace industry, and pharmaceutical industry. So right there, $13 billion in between the 65-mile-long corridor, we have this huge site. And Purdue is working with Lilly in a pharmaceutical manufacturing training facility to train the workforce of the future going into this AI-driven Industry 4.0. 

So if you look at those two examples, One Health Innovation District, downtown Indianapolis, Elanco, pharmaceutical-driven training facility, and a huge onshoring opportunity, onshoring back to our own country, back to the heartland, and then you tie it together with Purdue’s original main campus half an hour to the north, that densifies in a curated manner this pharmaceutical revolution happening in America’s heartland. 

Shibani Joshi: 

Yeah, it’s allowing us to deploy and execute ideas and medicines in a much faster way. I want to ask you, Sean, you bring a pretty robust and diverse experience to your role at Amgen. You have worked at Meta, Nike, and other industries. What skills and what trends are you seeing driven through AI across industries that you’re applying now to Amgen? 

Sean Bruich: 

When you look at the opportunity in front of us, as President Chiang mentioned, we are just at the beginning of when some of these brand new computational approaches are demonstrating real impact in biotech and biopharma. The Nobel Prize this year went to Professor David Baker at the University of Washington, but also to two Google DeepMind employees for an algorithm they developed that predicts protein folding. That is incredibly exciting, and there are going to be some huge changes, I think, in how we do science, the drug discovery part of what Amgen does, what the broader biotechnology field does. That being said, I think data is data and algorithms are algorithms, and so there are some real lessons learned from the transformation of the digital advertising industry or the transformation of direct-to-consumer retail that are incredibly applicable to companies like Amgen and biot- 

Shibani Joshi: 

But name a couple of those. What do you think? 

Sean Bruich: 

Yeah, look, you think about Nike going from being a wholesale manufacturer that ships 10 million shoes to Footlocker to having to deliver individual boxes of shoes to consumers. That sort of approach to digitizing operations, to automation, to data-driven decision-making absolutely are going to be able to be applied into the biotech and biopharma space. And there’s real benefit to moving faster at each stage of the drug delivery process, because that means you’re getting medicines to patients who have unmet medical need a lot faster. 

So I think both sides of that coin are really exciting. I think there’s going to be some real novel opportunities for data science to change how we do drug discovery and how scientists do their job, but just in terms of improving how drug companies operate, that’s also a big opportunity and there’s a lot to learn there. 

Shibani Joshi: 

Tatyana, I’d love to bring your perspective on this as you’ve been using AI and data analytics for a very long time. You don’t think that AI is on the brink, it’s here and it’s been here. What are you using AI for? How is it informing and accelerating what you’re doing? 

Tatyana Kanzaveli: 

If you think about overall health care, it’s all about data and massive amounts of multidimensional data sets. We’ve been using it for supporting researchers in many different diseases, because you need to analyze data that comes from different sponsors, from humans, from environment, from EHR, to make sense and understand causation, personal treatment, and outcomes. 

In regards to pharma, I had a panel yesterday where I had CEO of Insilico, and he showed me a bottle, everything that has been developed using gen AI. So they were able to define targets and move into phase two of clinical trials, completely AI-powered drug discovery and production. This is the future that can bring us precision medicine and will be able to introduce drugs faster, which means that we’ll be able to treat, and cheaper. So we will be able to produce drugs that will treat people who right now probably don’t have anything and save lives. So it’s exciting times. 

Shibani Joshi: 

The promise is real, but the road to the promise is uncertain, bumpy, lots of issues, regulation, many different players, many different possibilities. What do you think the pain points are or the roadblocks that each of you are seeing that cross-industry partnerships can help or where you’re putting more of your effort internally to smooth out? 

Sean Bruich: 

Transformation is always really hard. I think at the heart of this AI revolution, it’s a different way of thinking about your data assets, if you’re a company, and a different way of thinking about what are the partners that are going to matter to you going forward. So on the data side of things, there’s so much that scientists do today that’s not yet been digitized, so much that’s manual, so much that’s not really even captured or addressable to AI systems. And that, across the industry, whether you’re a small biotech company and a huge university, a large drug company, that’s going to be step number one to making any of this actually tie out together. If you don’t have the right data, it’s not been digitized, there’s nothing your AI systems can do about it. 

So that’s going to be a huge area of investment, but it’s also going to require a lot of these companies that have traditionally thought of themselves as purely a scientific enterprise as much more of a technology-driven success story. Whether you’re a small biotech company with your university, whether you’re a corporation, your underlying technology staff, the partnership with AI and other large technology companies, suddenly those become almost as important as the scientific enterprise. Which is not to diminish the criticality of genius scientists or the scientific discovery process, but augmenting scientists with automation, with technology, with prediction tools is going to be a huge exercise in inventing new ways of doing the same work more efficiently. 

Shibani Joshi: 

President Chiang, I see you nodding your head? 

Mung Chiang: 

Well, because I’m in agreement with Sean here. And maybe I’ll just add several other challenges we’re facing, one of which is AI is like a generalist. You’ve got large language models, you’ve got generative AI algorithms, but the hammer got to be specialized. You need a specialist in each vertical domains to work alongside the generalist. So for example, in drug discovery, Purdue has a fantastic professor, one of many we have, his name is Phil Low. He’s got 600 US patents, dozens of drugs, eight startup companies, including the cancer drug Pluvicto, for example. And I asked him, and he said, “Yeah, it’s great with AI and it let’s have the right access to data, and so on. But the space for AI, even today’s AI, to search is so huge, you still need the domain expertise to work together in a drug discovery phase.” 

A second example is the manufacturing part. If you look at a manufacturing floor, there’s a lot of physical objects. It’s not just the virtual side of the data and computation. So that’s why Purdue has an Institute for Physical AI, where the bytes of AI meet the atoms of what we make, what we grow, what we move. In this case, it’s what we make and how we make it. The physical and the virtual interface require a dialogue between the AI experts and the manufacturing experts. 

And a third and last example I add to that is if you think about onshoring opportunities as the global supply chain of pharmaceutical industry is reshuffled. So here in our country, and I hope more so in Midwest than in Texas, sorry about that, but I’m biased, we have a lot of opportunities of job creation. But in order to onshore these chemical processing opportunities, you need new chemistry. Not just the virtual side of AI, but also the physical side of, how would you process the chemicals in a way that is compliant with US regulations to onshore it here? So there’s a lot of challenges, but also opportunities, with the clean chemistry side of it too. 

Tatyana Kanzaveli: 

I am a strong believer in partnerships. And with universities, my company, we try to recruit on a part-time or full-time basis PhDs and students of universities. And I think it’s important, you mentioned that you’re building training facilities to train people to think differently. Those things are changing, so it’s important for universities to step in and prepare students for what’s coming. 

Partnership with industry, for us, startups is crucial. We can’t just build things without partners. In my case, we partner with government, we partner with providers and pharma, and jointly we can deliver value. The advantage of startups is that we can attract and we can move fast. We have a capacity to immediately make significant changes in the way we do things that kind of big companies have processes, procedures, management, it’s more difficult for them to do those things. So we can run experiments, iterate, and innovate together with academia and public companies. 

Shibani Joshi: 

That’s great, but we’re also facing uncertain times for academic institutions with research funding and NIH funding at risk, President Chiang. It sounds like this is another reason that these industry partnerships are crucial, particularly right now. 

Mung Chiang: 

Yeah, well, the university president’s job is getting easier and easier every day. It’s becoming very boring. But you are right, we have opportunities. I see this as an opportunity to double down on strength. For example, Purdue has an industry-university collaboration. I mentioned quite a few consortia and great company partners. And if you are one of the pharma companies out there, please, give me a call. I’d love to talk to you. I’d love to recruit you to Purdue’s campus, the America’s Hard-Tech Corridor. And we have great relationship, because it’s the pharmaceutical industry and university talent pipeline research innovation together that has been defining the past decades and will continue to define the future ones. 

Shibani Joshi: 

As we wrap up here, let’s talk about the future. Lots of promise, lots of complexity, but what is that vision, I guess, each of you are holding in terms of patient care, drug development, or the future of health care that gets you up every morning and gets you motivated to do your work? I’d love to hear what that vision is. I’ll start with you, Sean. 

Sean Bruich: 

I’m just delighted to have an opportunity to participate in this revolution, where technology, deeper understanding of genetics, deeper understanding of precision medicine, all powered through data and AI, are going to transform the way we do health care in this country and beyond. I think it’s such an exciting time, and I am delighted that folks from different walks of life, whether it’s data scientists, biologists, chemists, physicians, pharmacists, are going to come together and really rethink what’s possible here. 

Mung Chiang: 

Well, I recently met some students looking at institutes at their new physical facilities. I look at the faces of these undergraduate and graduate students, and they are eager to say, “With creativity, we can save even more lives.” And with our partnership, we can accelerate and amplify that life-saving opportunity in this industry. 

Tatyana Kanzaveli: 

I started my company when I was diagnosed with cancer. And my vision was to have all this data and the power of AI to figure out why, to figure out how, to save lives, and that basically is a driver. I wake up and I’m excited about new technologies, new partnerships, new ways on how we can impact people’s lives. 

Shibani Joshi: 

Beautiful way to end, saving people’s lives with specialized approaches. Tatyana, President Chiang, Sean, thank you very much. Thank you to our partner, Purdue University, and thanks to everyone for joining us for this conversation. 

Mung Chiang: 

Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

Thanks for joining us for this very special episode of This Is Purdue. Purdue’s overall presence at South by Southwest provided a major platform to amplify Purdue’s renowned reputation while showcasing our thought leadership and global impact across industries. You can watch more behind-the-scenes videos from the Fast Company Grill at South by Southwest on our podcast YouTube page, YouTube.com/@ThisIsPurdue. And, be sure to follow This Is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This Is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Alli Chaney, Jon Garcia, and Ted Schellenberger. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography for this episode was led by Jon Garcia. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Megan Hoskins. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. Our creative production assistant is Dalani Young. And, our This Is Purdue intern is Caroline Keim. 

Thanks for listening to This Is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. From there, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe. And don’t forget, you can also check out all of our podcast content on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@ThisIsPurdue. And as always, Boiler up!

Alex: 

This is Alex Psomas, and you’re listening to, This is Purdue. 

Kate: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to, This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators, who are these boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni, taking small steps toward their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Alex: 

AI is a set of tools for all sorts of things. The AI umbrella is so large, so many things fit under it. In our application, we were trying to solve a very specific task, which is match food donations to food recipients. The other thing is now you can scale. Now you can just go beyond Indiana. You can include more food banks. You can process donations a lot faster because a human doesn’t have to sit around trying to call people on the phone and so on. 

Kate: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Alex Psomas, assistant professor of computer Science in Purdue University’s College of Science. Alex and his team at Purdue are using artificial intelligence to fight hunger. That’s right. This Purdue researcher is helping to solve one of the world’s toughest challenges, food insecurity and hunger. Now, we’ve all heard so much about AI in the news recently, and Alex is going to dig into this technology and how he leverages AI for good to solve societal issues right in his own Indiana community. You’ll hear about Alex’s AI models used to outsource decisions to make more informed and fairer choices on how best to distribute food among food pantries in Indianapolis. 

Plus, he shares how this model can scale to other areas of the country as well. By the way, this interview was extra special for our, this is Purdue team because Alex was the first boilermaker guest to join us in our new podcast studio. You can check out more on our YouTube page, YouTube.com\@This is Purdue. Okay, first things first, though. We kicked things off with Alex’s life growing up in Greece and his journey to becoming an assistant professor and researcher more than 5,000 miles away at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana. Alex, thank you so much for joining us on, this is Purdue. This is our first interview with our new studio set, so we’re really excited to have you and show off our studio too. 

Alex: 

Awesome. Thank you for having me. It’s very exciting. 

Kate: 

So tell us a little bit about your childhood. Have you always been interested in technology? You’re a computer science professor and researcher. Is that something growing up that you’ve always loved computers and technology, or how did that start for you? 

Alex: 

Yeah, that’s a difficult question to answer. So my dad was a welder and later on he had his own business of making stainless steel tanks for wine and oil and these sort of things. So even as a kid, eight, 10 years old, I would go on sweep floors or whatever. So I kind of used to growing up with large machinery around, so to speak, he would throw me around. I would always be curious about how things work and I had a computer at home that I would take apart and put together because I had nothing else to do, I guess. So I was always into how things work. 

Kate: 

Kind of tinkering around with computers. 

Alex: 

Yeah, exactly. 

Kate: 

Give us a little bit of background on what sparked you and your interest in wanting to give back to your community. Was that something that interested you when you were younger as well? 

Alex: 

So I’m from Greece. Greece is a small place and like all small places, community is important. I was part of many communities growing up, my rowing community, my high school community, my college community, family, later on in grad school, the theory community and so on, and looking back at my life and experiences. Every time I’m part of a strong community, that’s when I’m the happiest. And of course, part of being part of a community is not just feeling supported, but also supporting others. 

Kate: 

So you’re from Greece. We have to hear about your journey to Purdue and how you wanted to become a boilermaker. How did that happen? 

Alex: 

In Greece, the paths are somewhat structured. So up until high school, even if you’re in a small village, an island with 10 people or you’re in downtown Athens, everyone does the same books. Everyone is very uniform education right up until the last year of high school where you have to make humongous choice of where to go to college, and it’s very specific. So if you pick to be a math major, you’re looking at 40 math courses and nothing else. 

Kate: 

Oh wow. 

Alex: 

Computer science major, 40 computer science courses and nothing else. You don’t really get to pick inside of college. 

Kate: 

Not very well-rounded. 

Alex: 

Yes, yes, very one street. So it was a very hard choice for me. I was into math, computer science, mechanical engineering, coaching, everything under the sun. I picked computer science because I’m greedy, looking at the curriculum, it looked like it had the most loopholes to learn a lot of things. It had a lot of math. You could do more physics if you wanted. You could do more coding if you wanted. So I thought it was a good way to decide later. And in college I fell in love with algorithms, and computer science, I really… First course I took was phenomenal, which is a course I’m teaching this semester, by the way. 

I always tell this to the students. And then I went to grad school. That was my first experience in the United States. I went to Berkeley. Then I wanted to just keep learning, keep contributing to research and postdoc and then job market for academic jobs. That’s the first time I visited Purdue when I was interviewing here. And it really struck me as a special place. It seemed that even though people were doing super cool stuff and super impactful stuff, it was a sense of calmness and kind of lack of stress. Everyone was very nice. And from the people I talked to, it felt like everyone felt supported. My experience as well is the same. So it has lived up to this expectation. 

Kate: 

Yeah, we were talking before this about how California and the mid-west is a bit different vibes, right? 

Alex: 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The stress levels are really- 

Kate: 

I’m glad we’ve given you the warm Midwest welcome here. Okay, so let’s get into AI. Someone who doesn’t know AI, doesn’t know how to use it, what would you tell them? Like AI one-on-one for beginners? 

Alex: 

That’s a great question because I can answer it with other people’s words. 

Kate: 

Okay. 

Alex: 

This topic has shown up since Ancient Greece if you really want to be pedantic about it. But even the beginning of computer science, this conversation has come up again and again. For example, Larry Tesler, famous computer science said, “AI is what has not been done yet”, which is somehow accurate. Dijkstra another very famous computer scientist, my favorite quote of all time, which is regarding artificial intelligence. So you have intelligence, you have thinking. “So the question of whether computers can think is the same as whether submarines can swim.” 

So people like to have this cute one-liners, but what is AI? AI is a set of tools, a big umbrella, all sorts of things fit under it, and it’s an evolving agenda. So when I was an undergrad, we talk about spam filtering or things that are now silly, spell checking, this would fit under AI was now because my phone does IT, it doesn’t seem so exciting anymore. Back then my phone didn’t do it, so it was more exciting. But what’s common, typically when we talk about AI, we mean reasoning, learning, knowledge, representation, language processing, all these sort of things are typically under the AI umbrella. 

Kate: 

What would you tell someone though who might be confused about it? Is it easy to use? Where would they start, maybe? 

Alex: 

So the reason I think things are confusing is because the umbrella is so big, the question is so broad. When you say about AI, let’s do an analogy. There’s this beautiful book by Narayanan and Kapoor, okay, AI Snake Oil. And there they describe a world where every machine that can take you from place A to place B, it’s called vehicle. So a bicycle and a car and a ship and an airplane and a rocket. They’re all vehicles. So now let’s try to have the discussion of if vehicles are environmentally friendly, it’s a very hard discussion to have. It’s impossible because we’re putting all these things under one umbrella. If someone made a faster ship engine, all of a sudden you’re like, why is my bicycle not going any faster, right? It’s very, very difficult. So I think the difficulty in the conversation comes from the umbrella being so big. 

So we can talk about prediction, AI prediction. Is AI any good at predicting the future? Is AI any good at recognizing things like, show it a picture of a cat, can tell you it’s a cat. These are two very different things. So I would say where to start, just to answer your question, start at understanding that it’s not one thing. There’s categories. That’s the first thing to understand. AI is a set of tools for all sorts of things. The AI umbrella is so large, so many things fit under it. In our application, we were trying to solve a very specific task, which is match food donations to food recipients. It’s a matching problem, and we were trying to automate a person. So we have very, very concrete task at hand and we have very, very concrete tools to solve it. 

Kate: 

So as Alex just mentioned, he and his team used AI to match food donations to food recipients. Now, if you remember our research series episode with Purdue food science professors, Amanda Dearing and Haley Oliver, food insecurity is a massive problem across the world. And boilermaker researchers are continually working on solutions, including Alex. And according to the United States Department of Agriculture, food waste is estimated at between 30 and 40% of the food supply. So how is Purdue helping to solve this? Alex explains more about how his work with the Indy Hunger Network on an initiative known as Food Drop allows shipments of perfectly edible food to be efficiently donated to food banks instead of being bound for a landfill. 

Alex: 

So the Food Drop Initiative is an initiative run by the Indy Hunger network of food organization in Indianapolis. And its purpose is to redirect rejected food loads of truck drivers away from landfills and into food banks. And the idea was very simple. You had these truck drivers and for one reason or the other, they had little to do with whether they were carrying food that was edible, but they had a bunch of food that they had to get rid of like whatever they were supposed to deliver it didn’t want it for whatever reason, you can think of you’re carrying and pallets of food and one of them shifts. The food is fine, everything is fine, but the recipient doesn’t want it. So now what do you do? The outside option is just take it to a landfill, throw it away. So Food Drop was trying to not have this happen and match the food to food banks. 

Kate: 

So how and why exactly did Alex and his team use AI to fuel food pantries? He shares why this unique process takes all of the emotion out of the equation something humans find impossible to do and replaces this decision-making with innovative AI models to weigh all of the possible considerations and then come up with a solution that best benefits the most amount of people. See, by automating food matching decisions, more logical and fair food distribution can occur. 

Alex: 

So where does AI and machine learning come in? So in these problems, these are matching problems. You’re trying to match a donor with a recipient. There’s many things you can think of this way. So as things scale up, when you let a human make these decisions, what you’ll start seeing is that 99% of the donations go to only 1% of the possible donors. And this could be all sorts of human aspects, like, oh, this person responds quickly, or this person is very reliable or whatever. But the effect is the effect. The things start concentrating, and that’s where machine learning and AI can help. The current system is a person is making these matching decisions and we just want to automate it. And in doing so, we want to ensure that of course we’re doing the right decisions, making a sense of people are not driving a lot, the food is going to people who want the food and can use the food. 

But also at the same time, we are being fair. The way decision making works is we would, for many decisions that need to be made, we would like to have to do things in a democratic process where we all come together and make a decision. And that is sometimes possible, for example, when we want elect a representative, but often the way we make decisions is we elect a representative and have them make all the decisions, which is sort of the other extreme. And that is because lack of expertise or because the input output is too much, it’s too much to ask everyone for something every single time. 

The thing with AI and one of the methods that we do suggest, you can often predict what people would do. So if I could predict what you think all the time, then maybe I can simulate the way that direct democracy. So asking everyone a question all the time would work if I just have a good way to predict what you would do. And now this allows me to scale or this allows me to make more fair decisions for a number of things. So food donation, that’s precisely the approach we took. 

Kate: 

Alex dives further into food insecurity in the US and reiterates the importance of using AI for good. 

Alex: 

When you start working in these food allocation problems, I didn’t realize it at least, but food insecurity is embarrassingly bad, globally but also in the US. You would think, okay, there’s so much food, everyone’s throwing away their leftovers and trying to lose weight or whatever. Food insecurity, which is defined as, I’m going to bed hungry. A hundred percent of US counties have food insecurity. Somewhere like 40 million adults, 10 million children face food insecurity in this country in 2022. The numbers are shocking. In our minds, or at least in my mind. I knew it was a problem, but I didn’t realize before I started working in the space back in 2017 that it’s a huge problem. It’s unbelievable how big this problem is. 

Kate: 

Alex says, this machine learning program also saves people time and energy. Not only that, but this model can be scaled beyond Indiana to include more food banks. 

Alex: 

Beyond people’s time. So again, this matching process is run by a single person. This is not their only job. So now we can free some of their time into something that in a sense, a machine can do better or an algorithm can do better. The other thing is now you can scale. Now you can just go beyond Indiana, you can include more food banks, you can process donations a lot faster because a human doesn’t have to sit around trying to call people on the phone and so on. 

Kate: 

And speaking of scaling, Alex and his team are now working with the Society of St. Andrew, a United Methodist Hunger Relief nonprofit that focuses on food waste and hunger. 

Alex: 

So the idea was once it’s automated, it would get passed on to another organization which we have now. So this is now being supported and it lives under a different organization called Society of St. Andrews. But they didn’t have to train anybody, they could just immediately take this on because there’s nothing to do. There’s nothing that you need to learn. You don’t need an employee who knows how these decisions are made or how to navigate the process. And in fact, a few months ago, an organization from Washington, the state of Washington, so near, I think their south of Seattle want to take this on. They want to run a similar program over there. They don’t need to do anything. They could just, our code is open source, they can just take it, change the locations of the recipients and run it. It can run tomorrow if they decide to run it. 

Kate: 

As Alex just mentioned, this model uses open source code, code that’s open to the public. It’s also funded by the National Science Foundation and a Google AI for Social Good award. He discusses his goals for continuing to expand. 

Alex: 

We are interested in expanding. So we have seen things getting allocated. We want to do more. I think there’s more to do just because we’re not limited by human time. So we can expand in a sense for free. So we have some funding underway. There are some changes we want to make in the backend, some technical changes. The goal is to try to grow our set of recipients, so the people on the list. So contact more food banks. So we’re working with the Society of St. Andrew for this. We have applied for some funding for this project and we’ll see how it goes. 

Kate: 

We talked about there’s no human decision-making and it’s all AI, but ethics in the tech industry has been at the top of the headlines lately. You’re nodding. So why are you confident that your solution with this food drop has this fairness and can maintain that fairness? 

Alex: 

Well, the short answer is is because I can prove it. Okay, you see, or what’s the process here? You see a real problem. You see a real world problem. Now reality is complicated and math cannot deal with that. So you abstract away details and you get to some nice model, a theoretical model where the actors behave in a simple way, simple enough for you to be able to argue for. And in that model you define what fair means and then you prove some stuff and hopefully whatever you prove matches something to back to the world. 

So the only disagreement can come, someone can complain, is whether they disagree with what I mean when I say fair. they say no, what you say is fair is actually not fair. And the other is, when I did this abstraction, whether I move something that I shouldn’t have, whether I took away something from the real world that’s very important. And I removed it because I didn’t think it was important. And I believe that we haven’t done this. I can tell you what the fairness notion is. I think that’s a simple one. So there’s no technical things about it, but if there’s any arguments, it will be one of those two steps. And because everything is open, you can go read my paper, I’m open to- 

Kate: 

You’re open to feedback? 

Alex: 

Yeah, of course. So that’s how science proceeds. 

Kate: 

We’ll link Alex’s research in our podcast show notes for you all. Alex’s graduate and undergraduate students are involved in this research as well. So what’s his approach to mentoring them, especially when it comes to topics like AI and computer science that are changing day to day on a global scale? Here’s a hint. What he wants for these boilermakers students is actually pretty simple. Find something that excites them. 

Alex: 

So what’s my teaching style? So I’m a little chaotic. I don’t know if this coming across in this conversation. It’s not for no reason. So I really strongly believe that the bottleneck in research, in academic research, many, many times, more times than people would think, it’s not intelligence or talent. That’s what most people think. That’s why science is not progressing because there’s not enough talent. I think that’s not true. I think the real reason is there’s not desire. So people like me are excited about problems and I have found it a very unsuccessful way to mentor people is to tell them to work on the problems that I’m excited about. So instead I do something that is very difficult for them. So they’re all very annoyed, which is tell them everything under the sun that I’m excited about. Not one thing. So 50 things and then let them pick. 

Kate: 

So tell us some of those things that you’re excited about. 

Alex: 

A lot of them are very technical, like very specific technical questions that I don’t know how to answer, but others are the opposite. So I’m very excited about AI applications in democracy. What does that mean? What can we do? How can we make better decisions collectively? How do you form committees, citizen assemblies? These sort of things are very excited for me or I’ve been recently learning a lot about, through actually colleagues here at Purdue, applications of AI and machine learning in medicine, how some things are done a little naively. 

So I’m excited to learn more about, okay, there seems to be some room to put things together more. So this will be very open-ended examples. And my hope, and this hope has been materialized, is that someone will get excited about something that is in my peripheral vision of excitement and then I get to learn from them. So that’s the best way to keep track of things is have someone who’s really excited tell you about it, right? So I hopefully to infect someone and then learn from them. 

Kate: 

I love what Alex just said right there. He knows he can’t mentor students by telling them to work on problems that interest and excite him. They need to work on problems that inspire and excite them. That’s the difference maker. And speaking of students, in 2022, Alex received a career award from the National Science Foundation, which is the most prestigious award given to junior faculty who embody the role of teacher scholars through research. Alex shares what this honor means to him. 

Alex: 

First, it was really nice to be able to get the funds to fund students and have them explore their interests together with mine. Certainly the award helped with that, but more than that, it felt really nice because this was under AF, Algorithmic Foundations, so which is a very broad kind of umbrella in theoretical computer science, the comparison a little bit apples to oranges, how you compare to people who to give the award to. So it really felt, I would say, very, very nice that people appreciate the work that I do. People in my community, in the theoretical computer science community appreciate this work. I feel like that was the most meaningful part of this. 

Kate: 

You talked about your passion for computer science. Purdue had the first computer science program in the US. How are researchers like you at Purdue using that experience to be part of this rapid evolution of AI? 

Alex: 

Purdue has had the first CS department and that really put us in a good spot today. And you can see that computer science really has a big place in Purdue as a whole. Purdue is at the forefront of all sorts of things. There’s people like me who focus on more foundational aspects, understanding things at their core. We have very, very strong people doing computer vision, things that have to do with images, video, that sort of thing. Robotics, we have a very, very strong robotics team. We might have Aniket Bera- 

Kate: 

That’s exactly I’m thinking of the AI dialogue. 

Alex: 

Yes. Security is very strong. So people trying to figure out is AI security? Is AI trustworthy? Purdue as a whole is attacking the human computer interaction, all the talent we’re recruiting and all the kind of combined efforts that go into the broader agenda. But I think Purdue as a whole, computer science is really at the forefront of this. 

Kate: 

So not only is Purdue a leader in computer science, but our university is also a leader when it comes to AI and one of Purdue University President Mung Chiang’s strategic initiatives includes Purdue Computes, which launched as student interest in computing related majors and the societal impact of artificial intelligence and ships continued to rise rapidly. Purdue computes emphasizes these four key pillars, computing, semiconductor research and development, physical AI and quantum science and engineering. Alex shares more. 

Alex: 

Purdue computes is this massive initiative at Purdue that’s trying to attack a huge number of problems all at the same time and recruiting the manpower to do so. The whole initiative is facing challenges and providing solutions for things across the board. So AI and applications to agriculture, manufacturing, detecting bias, chip design, robotics, everything across the board. I think just so many exciting things are happening in that space. 

Kate: 

What’s your favorite part about being part of the Purdue Computes initiative? 

Alex: 

I think getting to collaborate with people, just having the expertise that you need available. So for example, I was recently in talks with Food Finders, the company, the NGO here in Lafayette. Again, some AI application in their operations and there was some problem with data collection. It seemed that there was a very expensive solution and that cheaper solution to do the data collection would take a picture. Everyone in the market takes a picture of something and I was like, oh, but I know nothing about computer vision. So I don’t know, actually what I’m saying is reasonable. Well, two days later now, I know it’s reasonable because I was talking to my colleague Raymond, who is one of the best people in the world and computer vision and he was right there, I could just ask him. It really makes everything go a lot faster having all these cool people doing cool stuff. 

Kate: 

We’ve had a lot of researchers on the podcast who have said it’s so collaborative. It’s this special community within Purdue. So that’s cool to hear. 

Alex: 

That’s how science moves. Just by having the expertise. No one can be an expert on everything. It’s just too many things going. So just knowing that you have reliable colleagues that are experts in their own domain is really, really important. 

Kate: 

Going back to, you talked about community, growing up in Greece. What has it been like acclimating and being involved in this boilermaker community overall for you and your family? 

Alex: 

It’s been fun. It’s been fun. It is just very different. It’s very hard to compare. Greece is a very uniform place. Everyone pretty much looks like me and acts like me. Exactly. Roughly, it’s exaggerating. On the flip side, Purdue is an international community driven from the university. So just so many people come from all sorts of different backgrounds. It has been really cool to be part of that. 

Kate: 

What discoveries or findings can we expect from Purdue, specifically within computer science and AI in 2025? 

Alex: 

That’s a hard question to answer. So we have some of the best people in the world working on things across the board. So foundational things, theoretical things, vision, robotics, human-computer interaction, and their applications across the board to agriculture medicine. 

Kate: 

So last question here. You get to see and contribute to so much amazing research at Purdue, like we talked about earlier. What do you want the world to know about the work that’s happening here at Purdue? 

Alex: 

We’re a leader in so many things. People here are pushing the agenda in all sorts of things, especially the College of Engineering and the College of Agriculture are a big part of being world leaders. But even at the College of Science, we’re really a part of all the exciting things that are happening in the AI space. 

Kate: 

Well, we can’t thank you enough for joining us and celebrating our new studio with us. Is there anything else I missed? Anything you want to tell our listeners? 

Alex: 

Regarding AI, I think the most important thing is to really go beyond the buzzwords. I would say that is a concrete message that I think is important to put out there. I think a lot of people are somehow suspicious that AI around them is bogus or exaggerated or just straight out false. At the same time, it seems very useful in other things, and I think people are having a hard time articulating exactly what they mean and it’s difficult to articulate exactly what you mean. And I think that the confusion and the way the confusion gets clarified is by knowing the stuff. So be less scared and more open to learning how these things work because it’s not going anywhere. Our lives will become more and more algorithmic, so to speak. 

Kate: 

I love that. That’s great. Be open-minded. Don’t be scared to utilize AI in your general life. 

Alex: 

It’s easy for me to say because it’s my job and also it’s my job to be wrong. That’s most of research. Only mistakes. 1% of the time you do something good, 99% it’s wrong. That’s fine. So I’m very used to being wrong, but that’s really the worst thing that can happen. You could just be wrong. Say something embarrassing and it’s fine as long as you learn something in the end. 

Kate: 

I love that. No, that’s perfect advice. Well, again, we can’t thank you enough. 

Alex: 

Thank you for having me. It was great. 

Kate: 

It was wonderful to have this special boilermaker in our new podcast studio. We have additional bonus content from Alex’s interview on our podcast YouTube channel. Head over to YouTube.com/@This is Purdue and click that subscribe button while you’re there. Plus you can check out some videos of our new Purdue brand studio as well. And of course, be sure to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger in collaboration with Jon Garcia, Thad Boone and Zach Mogensen. 

Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Cheryl Glotzbach. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. Our video production assistant is Dalani Young. Our this is Purdue intern is Caroline Keim and Purdue brand studio team member Brittany Steff is the author of a Purdue News article featuring Alex’s research, which you can check out in our show notes. Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcasts. There you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe and leave us a review. And as always, boiler up.

Dan Kiermaier: 

Hi. I’m Dan Kiermaier. I’m the head groundskeeper here at Wrigley Field with the Chicago Cubs, and you are listening to This Is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi. I’m Kate Young, and you’re listening to This Is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni taking small steps toward their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

I don’t think there’s a bad seat in the house. When you’re here, you feel it. It’s hard to describe, but it just has that it factor. It’s a really special place to me, and I’m lucky enough to watch 81 games a year at this place. It’s amazing, and I still get goosebumps when I walk out there. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This Is Purdue, we’re talking to Dan Kiermaier, the head groundskeeper for the Chicago Cubs. Dan uses his Purdue College of Agriculture degree in turf management and science to maintain the safety, playability, and historic atmosphere of one of sport’s most iconic venues, Wrigley Field. You’ll hear more about Dan’s career journey, sports turf maintenance tips, and behind-the-scenes stories from Major League Baseball’s second-oldest stadium in the country. Plus, we dig into Dan’s experience attending that 2016 World Series win. Yeah. You know the one. And we discuss how Dan’s team balances player safety and innovation of the Friendly Confines while maintaining the historic charm and that unique ivy, which has a surprising link to Purdue, by the way. Dan is a fantastic storyteller, so enough from me. Here’s my conversation with this Boilermaker who’s living out his dream career with one of the most celebrated sports teams in America. 

Dan, thank you so much for joining us on This Is Purdue, our official university podcast. You’re a proud Boilermaker. You’re a big Cubs fan, so it’s really amazing to see you living your dream with the Cubs now. And you’re using your turf and science management degree from Purdue’s College of Agriculture as the head groundskeeper for the Cubs at the iconic Wrigley Field. We’re super excited to dive into your journey and talk to you today, but let’s kick things off with your earliest memory of the Chicago Cubs. You’ve said that you went to visit Wrigley when you were about 10 years old. How did that visit influence you and change the trajectory of your life now? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Yeah. It was the summer of 1998 when Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire were having their historic home run chase. I was 10 years old, playing baseball, so that was the time that I really got into watching the Cubs. And I remember just coming to the ballpark and just being astonished by just the ambiance of the place and just how beautiful the grass was, the ivy, the scoreboard, all of the things that you hear about with Wrigley, but to walk into this place for the first time was something special and that I will always remember. 

And a little cherry on top with that whole situation was the fact that Sammy hit … I think it was his 41st or 42nd home run that season, and the place went crazy. So, it was just a really cool moment as a 10-year-old kid. And at the time that I was here, I had no idea that groundskeeping or anything like that was even a career that you could pursue. Like many people that come to the ballpark, I just kind of took it for granted. It’s, I guess, cool now to have that perspective of looking back and just knowing what goes into this place each and every day to make all of these events go on and just all of the hard work that takes place behind the scenes, but yeah. That was a cool first moment for me to step into this place as a big fan. 

Kate Young: 

So, during that game, were you like, “I want to work for the Cubs. I want to at least work within Major League Baseball?” 

Dan Kiermaier: 

At that time, I was still hopeful that I could be playing for the Cubs. Fate would have it, I wasn’t good enough to be a ballplayer in the field, but I found my own little path to get to Wrigley, and I’m happy to talk about it. 

Kate Young: 

I love that. What is it about that atmosphere of Wrigley? I have been there a couple times and had a grand old time, and I’m not even truly a baseball fan, but what makes it so unique and spark such loyal, passionate fans? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

The Cubs have a very passionate fan base. That is, for me … The fans make the place, and it’s crazy because you can come to Wrigley on Wednesday or Thursday day game, Friday, and doesn’t matter when, what time of year. You’d think all these people would be at work and at their jobs, and it’s packed at full house. And those are some of the funnest days, but it’s just, I mean, everything. It’s the fact that it’s over 100 years old. It’s a very tight … Or some of these new stadiums are so big and monstrous, and this place is just compact. You’re kind of on top of each other, so you’re close to the action. I don’t think there’s a bad seat in the house. It’s one of these places. I mean, when you’re here, you feel it. It’s hard to describe, but it just has that it factor. It’s a really special place to me, and I’m lucky enough to watch 81 games a year at this place. It’s amazing, and I still get goosebumps when I walk out there. 

Kate Young: 

That’s so exciting. So, flash forward, you’re the head groundskeeper at Wrigley. How do you help maintain that unique atmosphere that we just talked about? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

I just try to do my part and make sure that the place looks as pristine in my area. We want that field to wow people every time they walk out there or step into the ballpark. It’s like, as I mentioned earlier, there’s so many people that make this place go, and there’s so much planning and execution that has to take place 81 times a year, plus, if we’re lucky enough, playoffs. We have other events too. It really is a very cool place for a lot of different events. There’s so many people that are talented in their fields to make it amazing. I just want to uphold what people know and expect from the field, as in … which is the ivy’s nice and full and green from May and beyond because I … There’s not much I can do in April when it’s not warm yet, but we just want that field to be something that people remember, and that, it’s a small part of it because they’re there to watch the game, but we take a lot of pride in how the field looks and plays every day. 

Kate Young: 

How do you keep ensuring that the turf is updated, it’s safe, it’s playable, and then still keeping that nostalgia for all the fans as well? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

For us, player safety is number one. We want the ball to play as consistently as possible each and every day, and that’s tough to do because we have different weather conditions all year round. There’s different tactics that you have to take on in April than you do in July and August when it’s hotter, but it’s just a feel thing for us where you kind of develop an understanding of the environment that you’re in throughout all the years. I’m going into my 11th season at Wrigley and sixth as head groundskeeper, so you just kind of learn and understand what to plan around, what’s going to do well, what’s not. 

And it’s just a lot of it is trial and error, but we try to talk to the team and the players almost daily, if not daily. Every homestand when they’re playing, we want to get feedback. “Hey, how are things performing? Is there anything you like or don’t like?” It’s just always keeping that open communication line to make sure that their needs are being met. Like I said, we’ve developed some good systems and SOPs with how we do things and work around some of the bigger events that we do, and thankfully, I have a lot of good resources too to lean on with my counterparts in the MLB and then just a lot of people that have been valuable resources and just people that I lean on for some questions that I might have. 

Kate Young: 

You talked about the newer stadiums. They’re getting bigger and grander. How difficult is it to maintain a baseball field in a stadium though that’s over 100 years old? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

There’s unique challenges, definitely. I’d say, logistically, it’s a little bit tougher here because the ballpark is … It’s 110 years old now, I believe. When we’re receiving sod or some dirt and materials like that, it’s not as easy as just pulling up into a parking lot and dumping it out there. We have to kind of work around. We’re in a neighborhood. There’s definitely some nuance to work around when you have people walking on the sidewalks and you’re trying to pull rows of sod off of a semi. It can be quite difficult. 

Another thing is some of these newer stadiums have service tunnels or shops. We’re kind of stuck with the footprint that we have. The storage space, it’s a little bit tight here. Thankfully, we have a warehouse a couple blocks away that we keep a lot of the equipment, but just like any other ballpark though, every place has its challenges, and you just kind of find solutions to work around those, and thankfully, I … It’s not just me. I have a very talented group, a lot of very smart people that I work alongside with that help come up with different answers to some of the problems that we have. It keeps on your toes for sure, but we’ve kind of developed some systems over the years to work around them. 

Kate Young: 

Speaking of challenges, not every team has cold weather, obviously, but in Chicago, we know that the weather over the winter is quite rough. So, how do you get the field ready for these home openers after the offseason? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

We’ve done so many of them. Every spring is a little bit different. This time last year, we were actually prepping the field and getting ready to lay sod. This year, we haven’t been as fortunate with the weather. That being said, I’d say we’re on a pretty normal trajectory where we’re hoping to be out there and start laser grading the field, prepping all of the sand underneath, and then, typically, the … sod the field after an offseason because we had a couple events in the offseason. It only takes two days to actually lay the turf, and then, from there, it’s just all the detail stuff. We still have a mound to build. We still have a lot of clay work and laser leveling to kind of smooth everything out, but we have things that we do and that we know that are going to work with certain fertilizers or chemicals, or we throw grow blankets on the field every spring to kind of help trap some of the heat from the sun to kind of create a greenhouse effect underneath, and that will help green up the grass and just move things along. 

But it’s different every year. There’s always obstacles with the weather. That’s my number one headache with everything, and the first thing, from the moment the season gets going until the day it ends, I’m always looking at the weather, the first thing I do when I wake up every single day. So, that dictates so much of what we do. So, you have to be prepared, and you have to have an adjustment or a plan in place to kind of work around some of those tougher times when weather isn’t as cooperative as you’d like it to be. 

Kate Young: 

We had a winemaker on from California who’s a Boilermaker, and he said, “The one thing you can’t control is Mother Nature,” so- 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Yeah. Yeah. I can speak to that. Thankfully, we have very good weather services, and we have good operating procedures for different things, but Mother Nature, she is … When you think you have it figured out, she throws a curveball on the thing and kind of just have to adjust and, I guess, pivot to another thing, so- 

Kate Young: 

Well, and speaking of that, obviously, there’s rain. There’s other weather besides just it being cold and snowy. What is it like to get the field ready after an extreme weather delay? Do you all feel that pressure because there’s all these fans watching you? How have you and your team worked out those processes? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Yeah, no. There’s definitely pressure in those situations because, as good as the weather services are, you trying to be exact, and we don’t want our fans waiting around. We don’t want the players waiting around. As soon as that rain ends and we look like we have a window where it’s not going to start raining again, it’s all hands on deck. Everybody goes out there, and as I mentioned earlier, I’ve been very blessed to have a very cohesive unit with our team, and we haven’t had a lot of turnover. So, once we get the go ahead to start getting the field ready, everybody will run to their certain areas. We’ll get the tarp off, and then we will begin throwing material out on the infield skin, which is the playing surface area, trying to dry things up. It’s kind of organized chaos in a sense where we just all know that we have maybe 20 or 25 minutes to get the field back to where it was before the rain interrupted play. 

That’s where it gets very stressful for me is we obviously have the fans looking at us, but it’s just trying to communicate with all of the different parties that you need to … Obviously, my crew needs to know when we’re going out there, when we’re going to do it, get everything off. I’m talking to both managers on both teams, the traveling secretaries for both teams, and just trying to notify and inform those guys, “Hey, this is when the tarp’s coming off. This is when the field will be ready,” and not to mention all the people within our own organization where we have to make sure that they’re ready to go and when play resumes as well. 

So, yeah, I probably gain a couple gray hairs on my head on those days, but that being said, it’s … For me, I’m very lucky that a bad day for me is … Hey, all it’s doing is raining. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

When you take a step back, it’s not the worst thing in the world. And I love what I get to do and where I get to do it, and if I have to put up with a little weather here or there, so be it. 

Kate Young: 

Dan walks us through a typical day in a life as the head groundskeeper at Wrigley Field. Plus, he dives into what it takes to prepare Wrigley Field for big events outside of baseball games such as the National Hockey League Winter Classic, Big Ten Conference football games, and concerts. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

I wake up. I’m looking at the weather. I have to know what to anticipate and how we’re going to attack the day. Our crew will show up, if it’s a day game, at seven or eight in the morning. We’ll start mowing the field, getting all the areas, the home plate, the mound, the infield, the bullpens. Everything is going to be getting their hour of specialty work done. 

And then we’ll start prepping for when the team wants to come out and use the field with batting practice, with any sort of early work and defensive work that they want to do, which varies if it’s a night or a day game, but they’re on a pretty strict schedule on both times. So, I will be in communication with each team’s representative to make sure that we’re ready for what they want. And then, if weather becomes an issue, we’re trying to plan around that. And if we have to cancel anything, we’ll obviously let both teams know if the tarp needs to go out there to protect the field for the game. And then, if there’s any sort of weather issues, obviously, we’re going to be in constant communication, not only with each team and all the other people that I’d mentioned earlier, but the MLB because there’s obviously the TV production and just the understanding, the communication that needs to take place from each team to let them know if there’s a weather delay or anything like that going on. 

Obviously, those days, I don’t have as much fun as I do on the bright, sunny, beautiful, perfect days. Those are the, truly, the … just the gems. They’re great, and I kind of always tell people, I mean, there’s not a better place in the world and … than Wrigley Field in June, July, or August, and it’s a weekend series, and you have three-day games. It’s a very fun environment, especially when that sun is shining bright. 

Kate Young: 

So, beyond Cubs home games though, Wrigley hosts a lot of other different events, concerts. We’ve had Big Ten Conference football games there. Even our Purdue Boilermakers were there back in 2021. How do you navigate those events? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

That’s something that we’ve taken on a lot of the last couple of years. I try to talk to people in, like I said, in my field, so to speak, other groundskeepers that may have had some of the same events or similar events. And then you try to take all the information that they give you and kind of use it how you can with your facility. And there’s some of the processes that we have to do for football, where we have to remove a dugout and build a football field over top of it that other teams don’t really, necessarily have to deal with, but there’s other little tidbits that you can get from them to understand how to transition the clay to the grass and just make it so that it’s nice and flush and it’s going to be seamless. So, you just try to do as much homework as possible. 

A lot of people will often ask, “Hey, what are you doing in the winter?” And what I’m doing is trying to make plans for what to expect and what big events we know are coming in the pipeline and just get out and get as much thought and just as many answers as possible ahead of the time that we have these big events because we’ve talked a lot about the weather, but the weather can change. You could have six months of planning and everything planned, the perfect plan in place, and then weather throws a major hurdle that you have to kind of quickly adjust and adapt to. And you try to think of everything you can to make sure that things are going to go as smoothly as possible. 

With concerts, we have, thankfully, we’ve been working with a lot of the same vendors for most of the concerts over the years. You develop relationships with those people, let them know what’s going to help you be successful. And you also want them to be successful in what they’re doing and operating with, so we just try to keep an open communication and dialogue and really just try to mitigate as much risk or just anything that could go wrong as possible by getting out in front of it and then kind of addressing it with anybody who’s involved. As much planning as we can do, it just comes down to executing. I’ve been very fortunate to have an amazing group of people that I get to work with, and somehow, someway, they always pull these crazy, big events off, so- 

Kate Young: 

So, Dan highlighted some of the challenges in his career as a head groundskeeper in the MLB, but now, we’re diving into the more glamorous parts. He shares his favorite memories and experiences throughout the past decade. Plus, he shares what it was like to witness that legendary World Series game in 2016, the one where the Cubs took the Commissioner’s Trophy home to Chicago after a 108-year drought. Yeah. It was kind of a big deal. What’s your favorite kind of behind the scenes moment over the past 10 years that you’ve been working at Wrigley? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

I have so many of them. It’s hard to pinpoint just one thing. For me, it’s all the amazing people that I’ve gotten to meet because of this job, this role, and a lot of the cool concerts, the big baseball games, the football games. There’s not just one thing. You could go back to any one year. I could say, “This is what happened. That’s what happened. I remember this. I remember that.” There’s just so many of them, and like I said, this place, it attracts a lot of very cool people that, obviously, you don’t have the opportunity to meet or other places. And I’ve had such an amazing time here in the last decade, living here in Chicago and working for the Cubs. There’s not one thing. It’s just everything. It’s all been so tremendous. 

Kate Young: 

We can’t have this interview and not talk about the Cubs winning the World Series in 2016. That was just one year after you joined the organization. How can you even describe what that felt like to be part of that historic season, especially as a fan yourself? And then we got to go over where were you watching? Who were you with? Tell us all those moments. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Yeah, 2016 was a very magical year. I was fortunate enough, like you said. I came on the year before, and the team kind of had some more success than anybody anticipated. You could kind of see that building going into 2016, and they got off to a very hot start. And it was something like 16 and three or they’re 17 and three. It was something like that, crazy in the first month of the season, and you just kind of knew then. Something was different about that team, and kind of looking back and been a part of a lot of different teams, it … Just the ball seemed to bounce their way every single time. They’d win all the close games. They didn’t have many injuries. It was just a very special group, and going into that postseason, you … I mean, everybody had the hopes that, “Hey, this is the year.” And then we get through the first two rounds of the playoffs, which there are some challenges there too, but they got through them. 

And then going to the World Series, we’re actually in Cleveland for the first two games, and it was freezing cold. Cubs, I think, lost game one, won game two. We come back here to Wrigley. It was Halloween weekend. It was a Friday, Saturday, Sunday on Halloween weekend, and the baseball gods were just looking out for us because it was 70 degrees, perfect weather. We’ve had snow on Halloween multiple occasions here since I’ve lived here. It was just one of those crazy years that it was absolutely perfect. You could just feel the energy and the buzz. I’d be driving into work, and there would be lines around the block with bars, people waiting to get into the bars at 9:00 AM for a 7:00 PM game. 

Looking back, and I’m getting the chills just thinking about it, it just had such an amazing feel. We felt like the center of the universe for those games. Then Cleveland comes in, and they win the next two games, games three and game four. Cubs are down three to one, and then, thankfully, we win game five, and we’re going back to Cleveland. Thankfully, the Cubs handled it so amazingly. They took our whole front office. We were all allowed to bring a guest. We’re all there for game six and game seven. So, I actually watched game seven in the ballpark, and to have that perspective, to be there in the biggest moment, in the biggest game in the Cubs history, and probably one of the biggest games in baseball history, to be honest, because that was one of those “where were you” moments. I was lucky enough to be in the stadium. I was with my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, but we’ve since been married, and then the whole front office. 

I can take you back to that game, I mean, when the Cubs got out to a hot start. Dexter Fowler hit a home run to lead off the game. They’re kind of cruising throughout the entirety of the game, and I think we got to the … I think it was seventh or eighth inning, and Cleveland kind of made a comeback. Rajai Davis, who hadn’t hit a homer, I think, all season long, maybe one, it was his first one since June, hits one off Aroldis Chapman, who, at that time, was the closer and the guy that nobody could hit. And you’re just kind of sitting there like, “Oh my God. Here it comes.” And five-five, going into the ninth, and there was obviously a … Everybody remembers. There was a rain delay. 

Kate Young: 

Yes. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

And a very short one, but everybody … I think a lot of people have heard that Jason Heyward and the guys kind of rallied in there, and they came out after that rain delay and thankfully scored two runs, which is important. I think a lot of people forget. They scored two runs and … because Cleveland did score on the bottom of the 10th, but on that ball, it was a short, little dribbler hit to Kris Bryant. And he throws it to Rizzo and kind of slips, and it all kind of happened in slow motion because it was such a big moment, and I can remember every little detail about it. You had to pinch yourself, almost, when it actually happened. And I remember me and my wife just grabbed each other and hugged, and everybody was screaming and going crazy. And the celebrations afterwards were amazing, the parade. We were a part of the parade. 

And just my whole experience with that, I don’t know if it’ll ever be topped. It was, as a Cubs fan, as somebody who grew up watching them and kind of went through all the heartbreaks, going back to 2003 and just … I’m 36 years old right now. So, there’s a lot of older Cubs fans that have been through a lot more of the devastation. I know ’84 is one that everybody kind of looks back at. It was just a dream come true. I don’t know how I got so lucky to join the organization, the only organization that I’d ever wanted to work for, to be a part of it at the time when it just seemed like it was just the magic moment. And it’s something I’ll never forget. It was just an incredible experience. From the opening day until the last out of the World Series, it was just awesome. 

Kate Young: 

You’re such a good storyteller. How cool to hear it from someone who was there firsthand. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Just so lucky and just such an amazing ride for all the Cubs fans. I know everybody can relate to that because we all felt it, and it was such a huge, pivotal monkey off the shoulder moment for everybody and that’s ever rooted for the Cubs. 

Kate Young: 

For our listeners who can’t see out there, Dan is smiling very big right now. That’s awesome. Okay. Dan could host his own podcast with stories like that. Now, we’re going to rewind a bit to years before that historic win. Dan discusses why he decided to go to Purdue and shares more about his path to pursuing a career in turf management and science. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

I’d always wanted to go to Purdue. My dad and my grandpa were big Purdue fans, football and basketball for me growing up. Neither of them attended. They were just fans for whatever reason. We grew up in Fort Wayne, Indiana, so I guess it was close in proximity. So, I can remember going to games, and I’m … Before I ever came to Wrigley, I was at Purdue games. So, I remember I was four or five and my first experience at both Ross-Ade and Mackey. So, it was just something, a place that was always special to me, and a diehard Boilermaker for my whole life. So, it was somewhere that I always wanted to go. 

To answer your other question, I did not know that I was going to get into turf science. I had no idea that turf science was a major you could study. I did not know that this was a career that you could pursue. Initially, my first two years, I was actually just general studies. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. And then I got into physical therapy the second semester of my second year, and I … Only reason I’d gotten into that was because I knew some friends’ dads who did it, and they were successful. And I got into it just because I didn’t have anything else. I was like, “It’s time to decide.” So I got into that, and I did not enjoy it at all. 

I thankfully was rooming with a guy that was studying turf science, and when he told me that, I kind of brushed him off like, “Whatever. I don’t know what turf science is,” but that … The end of the first semester of my junior year, I was just kind of at a crossroads and didn’t know. I was like, “This isn’t what I want to do.” I didn’t know what else I wanted to get into. I’m a junior in college, and I still don’t have an idea of what I want to do, and I just talked to my buddy again. I was like, “Hey, what is it that you do?” And he explained that he was going to go try to be a golf course superintendent and get into that field, but he explained there’s the landscaping side. 

And that was initially what I … clicked with me. I grew up mowing lawns in the summers, just to make some cash as a high school kid that was playing baseball and couldn’t get a normal job because I had games at night and things like that. I mowed lawns for probably four or five summers and always enjoyed it, never thought of it as a career. When I was done with it, I went into college. I just never thought of it again, and then he’s explaining that side to me. And so, like I said, that’s what I thought I was going to do. And he also mentioned there’s a sports turf side. People that do this also maintain baseball fields, football fields, soccer fields, things like that. And I grew up playing baseball too and football. And so, those are both sports that I love, but I never thought of being a groundskeeper for a baseball field or a football field as a career. 

So, fast-forward, I get into turf. I have an internship at a golf course, enjoyed it, but I didn’t grow up playing golf. So, at the time, that didn’t really click with me, and thankfully, my next summer, I got an opportunity with the Staten Island Yankees up in New York and got introduced to groundskeeping of a Major League Baseball field. And that’s where I found my passion. I knew what I wanted to do with … for the rest of my life. It goes back to a conversation at Purdue, and thankfully, Purdue’s turf science professor, he kind of explained the curriculum and how to fast track me and get me through everything. And it’s just Purdue’s been a big part of my journey and where I’m at right now. 

Kate Young: 

Yeah, that’s incredible. And that’s so cool that you pivoted again and pursued something that you didn’t initially even know about. How do you apply the skills in your job today that you learned within Purdue’s College of Agriculture? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Looking back, Aaron Patton and Cale Bigelow were my professors for all of the turf classes, and they did a great job at preparing us and prepping us for the real world that was to come. They did an amazing job just explaining everything from the scientific side of everything. And Cale’s just somebody who I still lean on to this day, and if I have a question, I mean, those two, Aaron and Cale, they’re the smartest turf guys I know. Cale’s been able to answer a lot of questions for me when I have something that comes up and I’m not really sure how to handle it or just how to proceed going forward with things, and just very tremendous people with a wealth of knowledge that I’ve relied on a lot throughout my years. 

And then Purdue also did a great job at creating a curriculum that wasn’t just centered on turf itself. We had accounting classes, finance classes, because a big part of what I do is also just budgeting here. We have, obviously, budgets to work around, and I use those skills that I learned in those classes to this day with my Excel spreadsheets and things like that that we’re on track with where we need to be from a monetary perspective. So, it was just a very well-rounded curriculum that they obviously taught you the turf side of things, but they exposed you to different things that you’re going to have to use in your career as well, so- 

Kate Young: 

That’s a super interesting aspect about the budgeting and the money that goes into maintaining these professional fields. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

And it’s like it doesn’t matter if you’re a Wrigley Field or a golf course or a little league facility. Everybody has a budget that they need to uphold and that you have to work with, and it’s your job to go into the season knowing everything that you’re going to need and trying to stay within those parameters. You learn to become sort of like a businessman from that aspect, where you’re not only … you have to apply your science side, but you have to be pretty good knowing when to buy certain things, when to back off certain things, and just things like that. Purdue did a great job preparing me for everything that was to come in my professional career. 

Kate Young: 

Now, we knew going into this episode that Purdue and the Cubs have some ties. For example, we have a large alumni base in Chicago with its proximity to Purdue’s West Lafayette campus, and the Purdue Alumni Club of Chicago is one of Purdue for Life’s oldest and largest alumni organizations. We also know our men’s basketball head coach, Matt Painter, is a huge Cubs fan, but another fun fact that ties Purdue and this historic MLB team together, the Cubs actually have backup plants and ivy growing at Purdue’s College of Agriculture. Dan explains more. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

About 20 years ago, the groundskeeper who was running the field, he realized not only do we need grass, a sod replacement or anything like that. When the ivy gets dinged up or anything like that, we’re going to need some replacement plants. So, he contacted a botanist at Purdue at the time to come out to Purdue, to take some of our leaves and our ivy, to propagate them, and then to grow them. So, it’s essentially like a clone plant that they’ve derived from Wrigley Field, and they started that process about 20 years ago. 

Fast-forward to right now, Nathan Deppe at Purdue, he’s a botanist at Purdue. He still maintains the backup plants that we would need if anything would ever go wrong. We have had to lean on those because we’ve had construction projects over the years where the wall has to be worked on behind the ivy, and we had to take the ivy down and lay it on the ground during the winter, and then it just … Things occur during those times where something gets … A limb or a branch gets broken, and then when it starts growing back in the springtime, you have a spot that has a void. 

And like I said, going back to the origination of it all, it was propagated out of the ivy that we have here at Wrigley. It’s not grown from the started ivy, but it all derived from the Boston ivy that we supplied with them a number of years ago. And so, we have leaned on them, and they’ve supplied us with backup plants if something does occur during one of those construction periods or if something crazy happens. So, for me, it’s a nice … just a backup plan. Some years, we haven’t had to use them at all, but it’s peace of mind knowing that, hey, if something does happen, we’re going to be okay. 

Kate Young: 

Dan isn’t the only person in the Kiermaier family who is passionate about baseball and has made it his career. His younger brother, Kevin Kiermaier, played in the MLB for 10 years, most recently for the 2024 World Series winning Los Angeles Dodgers, and Kevin almost played baseball for Purdue. Dan shares more about this unique story and discusses what it was like to host his brother at Wrigley Field in 2022. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

He has a crazy story too. So, Kev was somebody who was very late to hit his growth spurt. He didn’t have a college scholarship until the last game of his high school career, which was the state championship. Going into his senior year, he grew about five or six inches and put on 20 some pounds, and then he really excelled. His high school team won the state championship in football and baseball, and then that last game of his state championship, which they ended up winning a coach from Parkland Junior College, and Champaign, Illinois was there to watch another player, saw Kev. Kev had a good game, offers him a spot. Kev goes to Parkland, and then that’s where his career really took off. 

His freshman year of his first year there at Parkland, the team goes to the World Series. He wins MVP, and that’s kind of when he started getting scouted and looked at by other major universities. His second year, he does tremendous again. And then the coach at the time at Purdue, Doug Schreiber, offered him a scholarship, and Kev committed to go to Purdue, but there was another curveball where he got drafted by the Tampa Bay Rays in 2010, and it was the … He was the 31st round pick, and not a lot of 31st round picks ended up making it to the major leagues. And there was a lot of people kind of in the … saying, “Hey, go to Purdue. You’re going to be a first round pick,” but I think with him, he felt like it was the right fit going to Tampa Bay, where they are an organization that have taken some chances on some lesser known guys, and it was just the right opportunity. 

So, he decided to forego his scholarship at Purdue, made his way to the minor leagues, and then the rest is kind of history. He was up in the major leagues from 2014 until this last season when he was able to cap his career off because he just retired, but he capped it off with the Los Angeles Dodgers and won a World Series, so- 

Kate Young: 

Wow, and 10 years in the league is a big deal too. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Yeah. So, every ball player, 10 years is when they can get the full pension. And I didn’t know this until he obviously hit that milestone, but only 7% of all major league players play for 10 years or more. So, to be included in that category was very special for him. I think if you’d asked him 15 years ago what you’d have done with your life, I don’t think he could have ever dreamt that his life took him on the path that it did, much like mine. We are both very fortunate to have lived out our dreams and our respective avenues with baseball. 

Kate Young: 

Two World Series rings between the two of you too, no big deal. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

I know. I got to one up him here in the next couple of years and get my second so I can rub that in his face again. 

Kate Young: 

So, you hosted your brother at Wrigley in 2022. What was that day like? I’m sure there was lots of friends and family there celebrating that, but how cool? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

It was really cool because he played here in 2014, the year before I got here, and the way that it worked out at the time with the scheduling was it’d only be every three years that an American League team would come play in Chicago at the Cubs. So, 2017, I think he ended up fracturing a hip when Tampa Bay came to Wrigley Field, so he couldn’t play then. He was on the disabled list. And then 2020, they were supposed to come back, and then the whole COVID situation kind of threw a wrench in the whole season where they redid the schedule. We only played 60 games, and you only played teams within your geographic footprint. We missed out on that one, but then, thankfully, in 2022, I think it was the first or second homestand we had that year. It was in April. It was freezing cold. There was snowflakes out there. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, no. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Wasn’t ideal conditions, but it was a great … a really cool moment for the both of us to kind of just finally cross paths in that respect on our careers. And the Cubs, they were so gracious and cordial, and David Ross called me to his office one before the first game, and here I am thinking. I’m like, “Uh-oh. Something’s wrong with the field or something,” and he tells me, “Hey, the managers often exchange lineup cards before the game, and they meet with the umpires.” And he let me know, “Hey, you and your brother are going to present the lineup cards to the umpires today.” So, we had that cool little moment before the game, and it was a fun moment for us. We had a lot of fun with it, and to share with our friends and family, it was a cool little thing that we got to do and experience together. 

Kate Young: 

There’s lots of crossover between Cubs fans and Boilermaker fans. How often do you interact with other Boilermakers in your role now? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

I do it quite often. So, I’m still close with a lot of my classmates at Purdue and, obviously, guys that do what I do. So, Steve Vonderheide, who was a classmate of mine, he runs the baseball field there at Purdue, and he’s somebody I talk with pretty frequently about things. 

And then you end up doing some business with guys. The guys that grade our field, Zach Ferguson, he runs a company now, J&D Turf, based out of Indianapolis, and they do all of our laser leveling and things like that ahead of the season. Jamie Mehringer with Advanced Turf, he’s somebody that graduated Purdue back in the early 2000s, and he’s become a big mentor of mine, an advisor, and he … somebody that I lean on a lot. Joey Stevenson, who runs the Indianapolis Indians field, is another Purdue grad that he’s been doing that for a long time now, and he’s somebody I bounce ideas off of and will reach out to for just little things here and there. 

And there’s just so many people that go through Purdue that end up with very successful careers in their own right, and they’ve been tremendous resources for me to lean on, no matter what situation comes up or just to be a friend. A lot of them are just friendships, and we don’t even talk about turf. It’s just you develop a lot of those friendships in college and through the university, and it’s been an amazing ride and a lot of great people along the way. 

Kate Young: 

So, we discussed before how impactful Dan’s first visit to Wrigley Field was when he was just 10 years old. What would Dan say to his 10-year-old self now about who he has become and where he’s ended up? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

I would probably say, “You can do this, and you get paid for it.” Now, if I could go back and just tell myself anything, it’s just like, “Hey, follow your passions and dream big because, if you work hard enough, crazy how things do play out, but you will end up where you want to be.” And like I said, I’m just so thankful that I met the right people and was at the right places at the right time. It’s crazy how everything kind of works and ties together when you do look back, but, I mean, I would just say, “Hey, man. Follow your gut and your passions, and the rest will take care of itself.” 

Kate Young: 

Well, we can’t thank you enough for joining us today. Is there anything else you want to share with our listeners, our loyal Cubs fans out there? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

I just can’t thank you guys enough for considering me and having me on this podcast. It means a lot. Even when I was a student at Purdue, never in a million years did I think I’d be on a platform like this representing the university. So, I just want to thank you guys for having me be a part of this. 

Kate Young: 

Ah. It was a pleasure. Like I said, you’re a great storyteller, so I know our listeners will love this episode. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

Dan ends this special episode with some fun, rapid-fire questions. What do you get on your hot dog at Wrigley Field, Dan? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

I’ve … didn’t grow up in Chicago, but I’ve been made a true Chicagoan where I like the Chicago dog. I like mustard. We’re not doing any ketchup. We got to have onions, relish, peppers, tomatoes. You don’t want to wear a white shirt eating these hot dogs because you’ll end up with a mess on yourself, but they’re phenomenal. 

Kate Young: 

Who was your favorite player when you were a kid 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Growing up, Sammy Sosa. I grew up a Cubs fan. He was the guy at the time. Sammy’s my favorite player growing up by far. 

Kate Young: 

You probably can’t pick favorites in your current role, but do you have a favorite player right now? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Well, up until last year, it was my brother Kevin Kiermaier. 

Kate Young: 

Favorite/most memorable game you’ve attended? I think I know the answer to this one. 

Dan Kiermaier: 

Yeah, easy answer. Game seven, 2016 World Series, game I’ll never forget. Unbelievable. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. So, speaking of the World Series, when do you wear your World Series ring? When do you pop that out? 

Dan Kiermaier: 

It’s few and far between. A lot of people would probably think that I would bust it out a lot, but it’s probably got dust on it right now. I don’t bring it out very often. I guess if we’d have some sort of family get together or something like that, I might bring it out, but it’s not brought out to daylight very often anymore. 

Kate Young: 

We can’t thank Dan enough for joining us on This Is Purdue, and we wish him and the Cubs the best of luck heading into the 2025 season. We have additional bonus content from Dan’s interview on our podcast YouTube channel. He dives into more detail on turf maintenance, how fast his team can get that tarp out during a weather delay, and so much more. Head over to youtube.com/@thisispurdue, and click that subscribe button while you’re there, and as always, you can follow This Is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This Is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy for this episode was led by Teresa Walker and Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Caitlyn Freville. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. Our video production assistant is Dalani Young, and our This Is Purdue intern is Caroline Keim. 

Thanks for listening to This Is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. There you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe and leave us a review, and as always, boiler up. 

Eric Hall : 

This is Eric Hall and you’re listening to, This is Purdue. 

Kate Young : 

Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together. Persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni, taking small steps toward their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Eric Hall : 

There’s a lot of expectation just on ourselves. We want to bring the best show, so it’s always cool when you do it, when you start a show like the first show, Luminous’s first show, or Epcot Forever’s first show, and you have people around the lagoon, and at the end they’re all applauding and yelling and they appreciated the effort that you put into it. 

Kate Young : 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Eric Hall, senior technical director at Disney Live Entertainment. We are so excited to feature our first Disney boilermaker on the podcast. Eric grew up in Hobart, Indiana and was a Purdue fan from a young age. Initially, he wanted to pursue aerospace engineering at Purdue, but says once he saw Purdue’s theater engineering program, he knew that was the right path for him. This big pivot he made during his time as a boilermaker certainly worked out for him. Eric recently celebrated his 30th year at Disney Live Entertainment and has decades of experience with large-scale events, live shows, and of course, the famous nightly Disney fireworks extravaganzas, Epcot Forever and Luminous, the Symphony of us. 

Eric’s also worked with celebrity talent throughout his years and even offered Prince Harry a donut as the two were watching wheelchair basketball together as part of Prince Harry’s Invictus Games, which were held at Walt Disney World Resort in 2016. Prince Harry politely declined the donut Eric says. Eric has plenty more Disney behind the scenes fun in store for us today, so let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Eric. Eric, thank you so much for joining us on. This is Purdue, Purdue’s official university podcast. There are so many Disney fans within our team with Purdue Brand Studio. You’re the first Disney employee we’ve had on the pod, so we’re just really excited to learn more about your Purdue journey, but also your Disney journey. Let’s get right into it. 

Eric Hall : 

Great. 

Kate Young : 

Thanks for coming and joining us. 

Eric Hall : 

Thanks for having me. 

Kate Young : 

Of course, of course. So at Purdue you studied interdisciplinary engineering and then you concentrated in theater as well. Why did you choose Purdue and where did this unique passion come? 

Eric Hall : 

Well, actually, Purdue has always been around in my life. I have two aunts and an uncle that graduated from Purdue. So early on they were kind of, “Purdue, Purdue, Purdue.” But as I got older and I was in high school, my uncle kind of steered me into the engineering realm. I looked into that, so I was like, “Well, I have an aptitude towards that sort of thing.” And Purdue is one of the top engineering schools, so it was kind of a no-brainer for me to choose. I got into the theater engineering program soon after. I was still kind of undecided as to what type of engineering I wanted to study, so they had the classes that kind of go over all the different types and just for people like me that wasn’t quite sure where I wanted to go with it. 

I did theater in high school. I did acting and show choir and stuff like that, so I already had kind of a draw towards that sort of thing, and when I saw that there was a theater engineering program, definitely, I jumped right on it. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time to get into that program. So it was actually perfect. 

Kate Young : 

I have to say, you have a theater voice, a radio, maybe you should start a podcast. I think your voice is incredible. 

Eric Hall : 

Thanks. Funny you say that. My son is trying to get into voiceover work. He’s an actor as well. 

Kate Young : 

Nice. 

Eric Hall : 

He sounds just like me. It’s really weird. I’ll let him know that kind of between that he’s probably got the same type of voice and good for recording and radio. Appreciate that. 

Kate Young : 

Eric walks us through the unique hands-on experiences he gained during his time at Purdue. 

Eric Hall : 

There were several, especially with the theater program because I took engineering classes and theater classes, and within the theater classes there were a lot of hands-on because you have to do hands-on in order to do theater tech. So it was a matter of installing sound system and black box theater and just setting up a show in terms of sound design, hanging lights and fixing lights and just getting into the equipment. Also, I had a really cool opportunity to go to USITT with other students in the theater program. We presented some labs that a graduate theater student had developed for students to learn how to do things such as how to solder properly or how to test impedance on a speaker, things like that. 

I kind of drifted more towards the audio portion of engineering and the theater, and when we went to USITT, I got to present a portion of that, so that was really cool. I really enjoyed that. I also did an internship at a recording studio in Lafayette. I don’t know if they’re still there or not. That was a really cool opportunity as well. That I really enjoyed. I love just kind of learning about a little of everything. 

Kate Young : 

Yes, you’ve had some unique experiences for sure. What is the biggest thing overall that stuck out to you during your time at Purdue? 

Eric Hall : 

The biggest thing that I got from that is just my love of audio because I started off as an audio engineer, and that’s where I really kind of drifted towards, like I said, and learning how studio techniques work, and it was just fascinating to me how placement of a microphone makes a difference and the acoustics of an environment in a studio makes a difference in how things sound. So it was just that love of… I came away with, “Oh, I really want to do this for a living,” sort of thing. And then when the engineering part kicked in was the acoustics and the math and the theory part of audio and live sound and studio engineering. That helped me immensely. 

Kate Young : 

It’s really cool because when you think about… I think of theater, singing, acting, those are usually more creative or writer types of people, and then you also paired that with engineering with STEM, so it’s like the best of both worlds collide really. It’s interesting. 

Eric Hall : 

And the theater engineering program that Purdue has actually does marry that together because you learn design, you learn why things are chosen for a particular production in terms of scenic lighting and audio for that matter. So having that sort of the left brain, right brain type of thing together makes it really valuable because I can understand when a show director wants something and I can explain, “Oh, I think this is what you’re looking for.” Sort of ideas are, “Hey, this doesn’t seem right. What do you think of that?” It’s not purely technical. I can understand the creative process and help maybe guide that along and be creative within my technical role as well. 

Kate Young : 

I have to say there is nothing that upsets me more than when a professional podcast that makes money with ads and everything has poor audio. So I’m sure that you feel me when you are listening to audio and it’s not perfect. 

Eric Hall : 

If you ask my wife, it’s this. When you go to concerts, I can never fully just enjoy it. I’m always looking at, “Oh, what type of speakers are they using? Oh, what does that sound like?” And yes, I do get irritated if it doesn’t sound good. So right there with you. 

Kate Young : 

So fast-forward after graduating from Purdue, Eric shares more about his journey to Disney. As he mentioned, he’s always been passionate about live entertainment, but what drew him to pyrotechnics specifically, plus he shares some age-old advice to get your foot in the door for your dream career. 

Eric Hall : 

I wanted to work for Disney, and I didn’t know what capacity and what roles were available. At the time, internet was just barely going, so you really couldn’t find anything out other than going to Disney’s Casting Center. So I went to apply for a role at Disney. I figured out, well, I’ll be a stage tech, I’ll get some hands-on experience. I know how to do live sound and the studio stuff, so let me do that. They didn’t have any positions at the time, so I started off in monorails. I drove a monorail for about a year or so, and then they had a cross utilization program to where people with aptitude towards a certain discipline, that area, if they have a need for a temporary fill-in for something, they would pull somebody from another department. 

That’s what’s great about Disney is you have all these opportunities and got brought over and proved myself worthy, and then they offered me a full-time position. So I started off as a stage technician working the various shows in the Magic Kingdom. We used to do a lot of events. We still do a lot of events, and I used to do grad night and Night of Joy. And then I moved up from there, I became a crew chief, so I would help plan events and figure concerts out and filmings and stuff like that. And then I was asked to see if I wanted to become a technical director, which our role is basically to be the guide for the project in terms of technical. We’re responsible for the technical delivery of a project, so audio, lighting, effects. 

We kind of shepherd that process. I did that for… Let’s see, I’ve been a technical director now since about 2009, and then I was promoted last year to senior technical director. In my current role, I am assisting with our work with the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District, formerly known as Reedy Creek. I help with our permitting process and building codes, and I help shepherd some of my peers and coworkers as to what’s allowable when we design for a show or project. So that’s pretty much it. So it’s again, a lot of opportunity and a lot of people that helped me along the way, so it’s been a great journey so far. 

Kate Young : 

You really got your foot in the door and then moved up from there, right? That’s what it sounds like. 

Eric Hall : 

Yes, and I preach that to students. Sometimes maybe what you’re looking for isn’t available, get as close as you can, get the hands on, build those relationships, then it goes from there. 

Kate Young : 

I know you just said you worked at Disney since 1995, so you’re celebrating 30 years there. Congrats. That’s awesome. 

Eric Hall : 

Thank you. 

Kate Young : 

What has made you stay at Disney for three decades? That’s a long time. 

Eric Hall : 

It doesn’t seem that long, to be honest. 

Kate Young : 

That’s always good. 

Eric Hall : 

Right. Time flies when you’re having fun. 

The relationships that I’ve built have kept me there. The company as a whole, they treat the cast members really well. There’s a lot of cool things that I get to do. I don’t do the same thing every day. There’s always something different. I work different projects in different parks throughout the year. There’s always some sort of challenge, and I like that. I like being challenged. I like being able to solve problems to be creative, and the company’s just giving me opportunities to do that, and I get to do some very unique things, work with some very cool people. I have a lot of friends there. I’ve been happy and I’ve stayed, and like I said, it just doesn’t seem that long. It’s been a fun journey so far. 

Kate Young : 

What have been some of your most challenging projects, most rewarding projects throughout those 30 years, would you say? 

Eric Hall : 

Two of the most rewarding projects that I recently worked on was Warrior Games, which is an Olympic style event put on by the Department of Defense for disabled veterans and service members. And watching those athletes do what they do and how much effort and passion they put into it was just… You feel it. And I was just so proud to be part of that. And then similarly, there was the Invictus Games. It’s a very similar event. Prince Harry actually produces that. He was there, same thing. It was just amazing to watch these brave people overcome what happened to them and be successful in their sport, and they were very loved and they really had a good time. It was amazing. Most projects are challenging. 

The two fireworks shows that I’ve worked on Nighttime Spectaculars and challenging in itself because anytime you’re starting from scratch and you’re coming up with a blue sky and you’re trying to figure out what’s the best way to impress our guests and make them smile and have great memories. There’s always challenges because we want to do something different that really hasn’t been seen before, or we want to produce the best we can. And so there’s always something that when you’re working with things that you’ve never done before, it’s always a challenge. So Epcot Forever was a challenge in itself that had lit kites. We had never done that before, put lights on a kite and actually have them change via computer control. 

And then of course with Luminous, we basically had… We built brand new barges and there were a lot of them, and we had a lot of things that are on the barges, lighting and fountains, and the pyrotechnics, and so there’s figuring out how that fits is a challenge and just getting everything made, but it’s fun challenges. Those things are like, “Ooh, let’s get into that sort of thing.” 

Kate Young : 

I love that. When you look back on the past 30 years, is there one defining career moment that you could share with us? 

Eric Hall : 

When I do these projects, for the most part, a lot of people see them. There’s a lot of, I don’t want to say pressure. There’s a lot of expectation in terms of just on ourselves. We want to bring the best show, so it’s always cool when you do it. When you start a show like Luminous’s first show or Epcot Forever first show, and you have people around the lagoon and at the end they’re all applauding and yelling and they appreciated the effort that you put into it. I had some really great mentors, some really great people help me along the way, so very appreciative. But most importantly, when I did the Epcot Forever Show, right afterwards, my son came up to me, they were selling merchandise in the shops that were a themed to Epcot forever. 

And he said, “I want to get one of those shirts because I want to wear it to school tomorrow.” He was very proud of me and he wanted to… “My dad put on the show.” And so that right there made everything worth it. Just the fact that my family was proud of what I did, that’s the top for me. It’s great that guests love our shows and they write about them and they think they’re great. It’s a good feeling knowing that you’ve made that many people happy and created those memories and made people smile. But the one that got me was when my son was showing that he was proud of me. 

Kate Young : 

That’s so special. I hope you bought him a shirt or a hat or something, a couple different pairs. 

Eric Hall : 

He got it for sure. 

Kate Young : 

That’s awesome. Disney’s known for so many things. They’re known for their fireworks, but they’re also known for safety, keeping millions of people safe in these parks every single day. How does Disney make safety such a critical element of the guest experience? 

Eric Hall : 

Because we put it first, it’s as simple as that. When we design, we’re always looking for what’s safe. We have programs, we have safety professionals, we have a lot of resources, and as we go through the process, safety’s just first and foremost. If we can’t do it safely, we just won’t do it. We’re not only looking out for guest safety, we’re looking out for cast member safety as well. I can’t tell you how important it is and how much it comes up every day. To us, it’s just secondhand now. 

It’s like, “What are we going to do? Is this okay?” We check with people. We have a lot of resources, a lot of people who know such things, and then we… Obviously, there’s other regulations and things that we obviously follow, so that fitting into those pockets and figuring out what needs to be looked at more in order to be safe, just like I said, first and foremost, it’s always on our mind all the time. 

Kate Young : 

Absolutely. How has that changed over the years that you’ve been there, that technology, the safety in these pyrotechnic shows, how has that evolved into everything that visitors see today? 

Eric Hall : 

Disney was the first to really use computer controlled firing systems for shows. If you’ve seen the documentary about Epcot becoming, they mentioned how the pyro was lit by a flare in the old days, so that’s just an example. So we find ways to make things safe. We innovate in order to help get to where we need to go. Technology has gotten more and more advanced when it comes to entertainment systems. Show control is a huge part of it. We have everything that works together in the show talking to each other, so it helps us keep track of what’s going on, and that’s really the main thing is just using innovation and technology to help tell the story and to help us do things more efficiently and safely. 

Kate Young : 

Eric shares a few behind the scenes moments with us about what it’s like working at the most magical place on earth. 

Eric Hall : 

I get to go do things that people would be very jealous of. I get to kind of climb around the parks and go backstage. There’s not a whole lot I can share with you on that, but we get to work with some really, really neat people and do a lot of things that not all everybody gets to do. Behind the scenes in terms of, in a generality, that’s where all the action happens. We want to do things that if it’s not ready, we don’t want the guests to see it. We want to present it, it says, if you’re opening a Christmas present, you don’t want to know what you’re getting beforehand. If you’re a kid, you do, but it’s that unwrapping that present we want people to be surprised and to be delighted when we present something. 

So the behind the scenes part, there’s so many people that help put it together. So for the fireworks show, we have technicians, producers, managers, designers, engineers. There’s hundreds of people that could work on any particular show at any particular time, and they all have a different role. There’s a lot of collaboration that happens when it comes to developing these behind the scenes. We come up with ideas, we work through those ideas, we test ideas. And what works best, what’s going to fit for what story we want to tell, it’s an interesting, fun thing. Each department has their own backstage and behind the scenes things that you don’t really see. It’s all about what we want to present to the guests. 

We love doing the behind the scenes for the documentaries and stuff. That doesn’t tell the whole story, but at the same time, there are so many people that help with these shows on just from an entertainment perspective, let alone our operations partners that do the shows on a daily basis and the technicians that do the show on a daily basis. 

Kate Young : 

Speaking of technicians, Eric says, these techs load over 1400 pieces of pyrotechnics onto multiple barges each day for ECOT’s current nightly show, Luminous: The Symphony of Us. In the afternoon, they drive those barges out to the lagoon and begin to prepare. And by the way, if you’re visiting the park, you can see what Eric calls the parade of barges. As the techs drive these small boats filled with pyrotechnics into their show spots for the evening, Eric did a lot of work on this Luminous show, which was recently featured in the documentary Epcot Becoming: Inside the Transformation on Disney+. Eric shares more. How cool is it to watch these back and point out, “Oh, my team and I did that,” or “That’s something that I impacted personally?” Talk us through that experience of watching that. 

Eric Hall : 

It’s great. The current documentary, I was actually done with my portion of the project, so you won’t see me in that. But seeing my team do their thing and watching the show and watching it all come together. There were actually some moments that I hadn’t seen until the show opened that we kind of added. It was a delight to me, and I was very proud of my team. I was like, “Well done, well done.” So yes, it’s very exciting to see my peers and my coworkers and my friends get the kudos that they deserve on a global scale. It’s great. 

Kate Young : 

If you are a Disney fan and have visited the theme parks, you likely remember the fireworks as a way to cap off your day and really your whole experience at the park. For decades now, Disney has featured these fireworks shows as a magical way to send you home. Walt Disney referred to the fireworks as a kiss good night. What does that mean to you that you’re impacting all of these visitors who are coming near and far? What does that mean to you to impact their experience as that final goodbye when they leave the park? 

Eric Hall : 

It impacts me to the point where when you had asked me earlier, why are you at Disney for 30 years? That’s why. It really is. Usually when you go somewhere or you see a show or something, you always talk about it afterwards in your family and it creates a memory. “Wow, wasn’t that neat?” Just people walking away and the shows like that, that are the kiss good nights are the final, “Hey, this is what we got for you and let’s create some memories here.” We always like to present something that hasn’t been seen before or people don’t get to see that often. So we really, really, really want to present something that once the guests walk away, they’re chatting about for days, and then maybe we inspire people at the same time. 

Maybe they’re like, “You know what? I want to do that. I like those lasers. I wonder how they do that.” And that’s what gets people involved and that’s what people appreciate. It’s inspiration as well as just entertainment. We strive for that. We like to do things that make people go, wow, and we want them to talk about with their families. Yes, and in fact, we’re making memories. It’s what it’s all about. 

Kate Young : 

I asked Eric how Purdue’s theater engineering concentration in multidisciplinary engineering prepares students like him for incredible careers in live entertainment. Plus, he digs into his mentorship work with Purdue students and gives advice to those who may want to pursue a career of their own in live entertainment. 

Eric Hall : 

The program helps you understand and helps you analyze. You have the left brain and the right brain, so you have the technical and the creative. And that program, like I said before, kind of melds those together. So learning about design and the technical part, it’s great because it teaches the students to think through what their problem or their challenge is. The students that have the engineering mind to come up with things to solve creative challenges, that program seems to have done really well. There’s two other cast members that I work with in our live entertainment department that have come from that program, and they were extremely prepared. That program has actually gotten… It’s improved since I was there, obviously. 

So over all those years ago, I was just really impressed with how well they prepare them for careers in entertainment because those two students who came to us, they fit right in. They knew what we were talking about, they knew how to solve problems. What do you think? They were impactful right away, and that’s important because theater technology is getting more and more complicated and more complex. You really need to have a technical mind in order to understand these things. There’s a of technology that’s come out since I graduated from Purdue that I’ve had to learn in my process. It’s always ever evolving, ever-changing. 

We’ve gone into the LED light era and the digital era and having these students be prepared for that to understand how to program a lighting console and to create some sort of mechanical device that will move scenic the way you want it to. It’s super important and giving those students those tools to go, “Hey, you have this sort of problem. Here’s how you go about solving it.” And that’s super important. Troubleshooting in our industry is super important because not everything works great the first time, and again, it comes down to meeting the challenges in the design as well. 

Kate Young : 

We’ve had many Purdue engineering students on the podcast and what you just said, just the problem solving skills that they learn at Purdue impacts everything with their career, so I love that. 

Eric Hall : 

It was super important to me as well. Being able to analyze and think through a problem to step back and to understand the bits and pieces of the whole is extremely valuable. 

Kate Young : 

Absolutely. Tell us about your mentorship work with Purdue students. I know you frequently give presentations, come back to campus. What does it mean to you to mentor and recruit boilermakers? What advice do you give them about working for Disney, working in live entertainment? 

Eric Hall : 

I love it actually. It’s really great because again, when I was at Purdue, I didn’t have the resources that we have today. We don’t have the internet. You can contact, you could look up somebody who works at Disney. “Hey, what do you do? What exactly do you do every day?” And I just like giving back because I’ve struggled in my time learning things and understanding, and I’m lucky to have mentors that help me through the process, so I want to be a mentor to people to maybe make it a little easier for them to get where they need to go and to help just give them the tools to be successful. All the students I’ve talked to are extremely bright and passionate, and they just want to know, where do I go from here? What do I need to know? I give them advice. 

I tell them what Disney Live Entertainment does or what my role involves. I have some students that reach out that they’re like, “I’m not sure what I want to do with this.” I talk to them. I ask them what they’re interested in. Maybe I point them in a direction, one of my peers or other cast members that may have some answers to them. So it’s not just me that’s giving answers. I’ve connected with some of the people that I’ve worked with that maybe have the information that those students are looking for. And just in general, just kind of giving them, “Hey, it’s okay to not know everything. It’s okay to say, I don’t know.” It’s learning and giving them advice. Things like that as to how to approach a job in general or a role. 

They really seem to appreciate that. It’s not just the, “Hey, you should know this, this, this.” It’s the here’s how you go about things. And I try my best to connect people with different experiences or just to talk about what they’re interested in so they can find maybe the right fit for them. 

Kate Young : 

We had a Penske race engineer on during the Indy 500, and he was saying that he also didn’t have the internet to go and network and get into the racing world, and he sent physical letters to try to network with people and get his foot in the door. And I assume that’s what was going on with Disney back then too, to try to, “Hey, how can I get to know people and network with people at a huge awesome company like that?” 

Eric Hall : 

And within Disney, we network as well. I had a manager in Monorails that, “Oh, you have an aptitude for theater tech and you want to be a tech. Oh, I know somebody who’s a tech manager. Let me talk to them.” And it’s that sort of thing. Building relationships is super important in any role that you’re in. Talk through and then give yourself a chance to be seen to let them know who you are and what you’re interested in. And then Disney’s great about that, trying to find opportunities for people. 

Kate Young : 

We talked a lot about innovation previously, Disney, Purdue, big innovators. What do you see in the future of live entertainment? How do you see it involving? What excites you the most as you look towards the future? 

Eric Hall : 

We have a lot of things coming up. Basically, I see the future of entertainment, and especially with technical is getting more and more complex. Digital systems, more compact equipment, needing to know those things is super important. It’s just going to get more complex and I believe more safe. Most companies are looking for the safest way to do things, so I’m very excited about that piece because there’s been some great innovations and great products that have come out that have helped keep people safe. Now in terms of Disney as entertainment, we have some really cool things coming up. We have a new nighttime show at Magic Kingdom, a nighttime parade called Starlight. And I’ve seen what that’s going to look like and it is going to be beautiful. 

I am very excited about seeing that. And we also have a new villain show that’s going to be really exciting because we’ve never really done anything like that. That’s going to be really, really neat. And then most recently we have a new Little Mermaid show coming as well. So those are three of the big things that have been announced. There’s a lot more exciting things coming. I can’t really discuss, but trust me, people are going to be surprised and delighted. We’re always trying to bring that wow factor to everything we do. 

Kate Young : 

Well, I know a lot of people love the wow factor and think that you absolutely do that at Disney. Is there anything else that I missed? Anything you want to tell our listeners? 

Eric Hall : 

For the people that want to work for Disney, it’s a great company. I’ve been there for 30 years and we have a lot of people that have been there for a very long time, so it shows how good of a company it is to work for and for those who want to maybe become techs or get into theater, do it. There’s some really good roles. I mean, not just for theme park entertainment, there’s entertainment everywhere, and they’re always looking for skilled technicians. For those young people who are into STEM, but they don’t really know what they want to do and they kind of like the theater thing or they like doing shows or presentations, I highly encourage it. It’s a fun thing to do, and Purdue has helped kind of see that. 

I’m not sure how many theater engineering programs are out there. I don’t think there’s that many. But what Purdue has produced and their program is exactly where entertainment is going to be going. Engineering minded, creative minded people. So if you’re that way, I encourage you to think about that, follow your passions, enjoy what you do. You hear that a lot, but it really is, it’s super important. That’s my takeaway if anybody has just any doubts as to what they want to do. 

Kate Young : 

Well, Eric, I think that’s the perfect outro. Couldn’t have said it better myself. Thank you so much again for joining us. It was a pleasure. 

Eric Hall : 

Thank you. I appreciate it. 

Kate Young : 

Eric ends this special episode with some rapid fire questions. Number one, what is your favorite pyrotechnics show? 

Eric Hall : 

I have to be biased and say Luminous. 

Kate Young : 

That’s fair. 

Eric Hall : 

It’s a beautiful show. I really am so impressed with my team. It’s a gorgeous show. Everybody has to see it. You’ll love it. 

Kate Young : 

I mean, any show that has a documentary on Disney+ about it has got to be a good show. What is your favorite overall entertainment show, not just at Disney, any type of show that you’ve been to? 

Eric Hall : 

Believe it or not, I just recently saw some Broadway shows. Those were really impressive. The Harry Potter one was very impressive. For Disney shows, I’m partial to festival of The Lion King at Animal Kingdom. It’s so energetic and just the talent that is in that show. Everybody from acrobats to dancers and singers, it’s an amazing show. Everybody should see that when they come to Animal Kingdom. I love it. I see it every time I’m there. 

Kate Young : 

Noted. What is your biggest tip for people visiting Disney theme parks? 

Eric Hall : 

Have fun. That’s kind of obvious, right? But sometimes just enjoy it. Don’t worry about the little things. We help take care of that. We want the guests to have the most amazing experience, and sometimes people aren’t sure what it’s about. Maybe the first time that people have come to Disney, just enjoy it. Enjoy that time with your family, create those memories. We’re here to help you do that. Just have fun. 

Kate Young : 

I love it. Simple. What is your favorite thing about Disney? 

Eric Hall : 

The uniqueness of what we do. Just how passionate cast members are about putting on a good show. And that doesn’t mean just entertainment people. Putting on a good show is for our custodial partners, our attractions partners. Everybody is passionate about the guests having a good time. That’s really the best thing, is the energy that cast members bring to their role and how we help guests enjoy themselves. That’s kind of unique. A lot of people talk about Disney’s guest service and it’s the best. So that’s just my favorite thing is just how everybody who works here just loves what they do and loves the guests and loves that they’re giving them, making memories again. 

Kate Young : 

We have additional bonus content from Eric’s interview on our podcast YouTube channel. He dives into more detail on Disney fireworks and shares the best spots to watch these incredible shows at the parks. You don’t want to miss it, trust me. Head over to YouTube.com/@thisispurdue, and click that subscribe button while you’re there. You can also follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you’re enjoying our content, leave us a rating and review. We love to hear from our listeners.  

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy for this episode was led by Teresa Walker and Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Caitlin Freeville. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube Promotions is managed by Kirsten Bauman. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. Our video production assistant is Delaney Young. And our This is Purdue intern is Caroline Kime. 

Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcasts. There you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe and leave us a review. And as always, boiler up.

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking, who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators, who are these boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni, taking small steps toward their giant leaps, and inspiring others to do the same. 

 Brandon Boor: 

Our work recently in the past few years has been really focused on understanding the factors that affect the competition of indoor air. Now, what is in the air that we’re breathing, whether we’re sitting in our home, working in our office, or if you have a student that’s out in the classroom at school. 

Nusrat Jung: 

Air is very fascinating because it is something that you don’t see. So having really, really cool instruments in our lab, allowing us to see what we cannot see. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Brandon Boor and Nusrat Jung and diving into the groundbreaking indoor air quality research they’re conducting right here at Purdue University. Brandon is Purdue’s Dr. Margery E. Hoffman Associate Professor in Civil Engineering, and Nusrat is an assistant professor in Purdue’s Lyles School of Civil and Construction Engineering. Together, Brandon and Nusrat are working to advance healthier, more energy efficient living through collaborative innovation, and this research is happening inside a first of its kind Tiny House lab on Purdue’s campus. In this episode, you’ll learn more about their recent research discoveries like how hair products and wax melts can impact indoor air quality. They’ll also share ways you can improve indoor air quality in your own home. Oh, and by the way, have I mentioned yet that these two are not only a research pair but also a real life pair? Let’s dig in. Here’s my conversation with Brandon and Nusrat. 

Thank you both for joining us on the official University podcast, This is Purdue. We’re so excited to talk to you. You’re both civil engineering researchers and professors, and you all have been working on some truly incredible stuff. So we’re excited to dive into this groundbreaking work that you’re doing at Purdue that’s really making a global impact. So, let’s kick things off. We want to get to know you two a little bit better. You are not only partners in research, but you’re partners in life. You’re married. So, we want to know how did you meet and how long have you been married for? 

 Brandon Boor: 

Thank you, Kate. So we’ve been married for 10 years and we first met in Finland in 2011. Nusrat was a research scientist at the VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland, which is a big research center in the country. She was working on buildings research and then I joined VTT as a visiting PhD student. I had a grant from the National Science Foundation called The Nordic Research Opportunity. So I was there for a few months, we met. Working in the same group, the first week that I was there and the rest is history. So, we really enjoyed our time and didn’t want together living up in the far north where it’s quite cold and quite dark, but they have excellent research, excellent education, and I think it really prepared us for our faculty careers here at Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

That’s incredible. So who else is part of your family, any pets? 

Nusrat Jung: 

Yes, we have three wonderful cats. Two of them came with us from Finland, and one of the cat adopted us here in West Lafayette. So we are family of five. We were very happy when we moved to Purdue because there is an excellent veterinary school and we were quite worried about the care that involves during the whole lifespan of a pet. So we have been really happy that there are right places and very, very good doctors that are available for anything that they need. So, it’s been a really nice setup. 

Kate Young: 

I mean, these are international cats. These are special cats. 

 Brandon Boor: 

Yeah. 

Nusrat Jung: 

Yes, they actually have Finnish passports. It’s really funny story. So they had to travel, the vet issued Finnish passports and the passports have information about the vaccination that they carry and that they are healthy. And it was really funny because I was asking about the Finnish language exam that they skipped. 

Kate Young: 

That is so fun. Wow. Okay, so I can tell that you’re both very passionate about the work that you do. When did you both realize that science was your passion, and do you remember any moment or experience maybe growing up that you were like, “I really want to be a researcher and make these really cool discoveries?” 

Nusrat Jung: 

Yes, I remember I was always a very curious child. I was getting into things I wanted to know about things, and I remember in high school we won the first award for science competition. We came up with a chimney that is of a power plant and we wanted to reduce the pollution somehow and come up with a control mechanism that will basically remove the pollution before it is exhausted. I think I have been thinking in terms of emissions and the care for the environment and people’s wellbeing for a long time. So, I’ve always been a person who is needs an active research question in mind or something to look for, something to find, something related to science. And I think the sense of discovery, the excitement that comes with it. 

 Brandon Boor: 

For me, it was also in high school. I grew up in Maryland and we had a Technology Magnet Program at my high school that was really instrumental in introducing me to engineering and science at a young age. I had a chance to participate in rocketry and robotics competitions. I worked at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab as a high school student. So I think that really drove me towards engineering, really enjoyed tinkering with things, working with my hands, the design aspect of engineering, working as part of a team. And then as a college student, I had the opportunity to do a co-op at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, which is in Gaithersburg, Maryland. They had an indoor air quality research group that I worked with for about eight months, and that introduced me to scientific research, working in the laboratory, working with advanced analytical instrumentation, working with scientists, and I think that really drove me towards pursuing a PhD, pursuing a research career. 

I learned that I could do experiments in the lab, make new discoveries, get all this interesting data, and try to make sense of it. There was an endedness to it that maybe is not so traditional and the conventional engineering path. So I think the research path allowed me to pursue my curiosities, do things for the first time in the lab. And make these discoveries that I found to be very interesting, and also impactful because I think indoor air quality is a field that does impact our everyday lives. 

Kate Young: 

You talked about you were in Finland and now you’re in West Lafayette. That must’ve been a big change. Tell us a little bit about your paths to Purdue. 

 Brandon Boor: 

So I applied to Purdue for a faculty position about a decade ago, and I was fortunate to receive an interview here. There is an open position in architectural engineering. So Purdue University, it’s one that few programs in the United States that has a very strong architectural engineering program within their civil engineering program. And architectural engineering is what Nusrat and I, do. Research-wise, teaching-wise, it’s really to study of buildings, indoor environments, and of course that encompasses indoor air quality. 

So I was fortunate to receive an offer and joined Purdue in 2015 as an assistant professor. I’ve been very fortunate to be here because we have such a strong focus on buildings research, research on the indoor environment. And large scale research infrastructure, experimental facilities that really have allowed me to pursue all my interest research-wise. And I think that in terms of the United States and what we have in architectural engineering, Purdue definitely has one of the best programs. We have facilities unlike any other universities, and this has really enabled us to make discoveries that you cannot make anywhere else. So I’ve been very happy to be here for 10 years almost this August, and to work with all the amazing students, undergraduate, graduate students and faculty that we had here at Purdue. 

Nusrat Jung: 

For me, it was that Brandon moved away from Finland, of course, and [inaudible 00:08:44] I was a PhD student at that time. And for me, it was just so incredibly exciting to see the things you can do when you become a professor. So actually, you have the ability to take something as an independent person, a thought that occurred, and then you can create and build upon it. You can actually write a proposal and then send it out somewhere for evaluation that it’ll get funded. 

Of course, there’s a whole sequence of things that you need to do, but at the same time you can really bring your ideas to life and that was very exciting of a thought. So once I was on the verge of completing my PhD in 2018, I actually never saw it as an end of something. I saw it as a new beginning, path to independent research career. So for me, it was incredibly exciting that you can actually do that. The only university I could think of was Purdue because Brandon was here and I wanted to have my dreams come true as well. And it was very exciting to just simply come here and then be a professor. I was teaching a class up to three months of graduating, exciting a new generation of engineers, starting to create new infrastructure. I mean, it has just been such an exciting time seeing all these years. 

Kate Young: 

When did you first start collaborating on your research together here at Purdue, and what has that experience been like? I’m sure there might be pros and cons with that as well. 

Nusrat Jung: 

We have actually enjoyed working together quite a lot. So, our first opportunity came during COVID-19, so everything of course was shut down. We had very nice home offices as well, both of us enjoyed working. During this time, there was this opportunity called as Protect Purdue Faculty Innovation Grant, and we had this idea because every time you would go out to groceries or to get something, you would smell all of these disinfectants in the air. And we started to talk about it and convert it into a short proposal that we put in for evaluation in this program, and we were so happy that it was accepted. And that was the first time that we collaborated and we were quite nice to find out that we work very well together. So it’s been really fun to actually have somebody, because naturally of course when you do research, you work in a team. So it is incredibly exciting when you have the whole team invested in the idea. When you make a discovery, it’s even a bigger celebration. So we have now had the opportunity to take our celebrations home as well. So, it’s been quite nice. 

 Brandon Boor: 

It’s been good because we brought different experiences and expertise together, and we did a PhD separately on different research topics and they were both connected to buildings. We were able to leverage the different experiences that we have had throughout our academic and our research careers. And I think that has really helped us in looking at buildings through a unique lens and looking at indoor air pollution issues within buildings. So, I think that’s been very helpful for us to approach a research problem from different perspectives. I think another aspect has been that a lot of the work that we have been doing has been in the form of this large scale measurement campaigns. And this is common in air quality research, whether that’s outdoors or indoors, or basically you bring together many faculty and graduate students to do a very intensive set of experiments at one particular location. 

And we have been able to do that here at Purdue, the two of us working together with other faculty collaborators where these measurements are very intense. So we have many instruments up and running that are very complicated, that are measuring all aspects of air quality, all the different pollutants that are in the air, and then all the different factors that are really affecting the composition of air. And then we work with faculty that have different areas of expertise related to atmospheric chemistry, environmental chemistry and so forth, along with industry collaborators. 

So these very intensive measurement campaigns that we’ve been able to do at Purdue, have really allowed us to make new discoveries because we’re measuring so many different things that we’re able to pick up on things that maybe other research groups would miss. So I think this has worked very well, but it takes a lot of work, a lot of coordination, and a lot of project management to oversee such a large research team. And to make sure that all these instruments are working together in unison because a lot of our work is looking at real-time dynamics of air pollutants. 

So everything has to be synced down to the second so we can make sense of the data that we’re generating, and we generate tons of data in our measurement campaign. So, I think working in this format has been very productive for the two of us along of our collaborators. And producing new research insights related to the factors that affect air quality in your home or your office or in the school. 

Nusrat Jung: 

And especially beneficial for our graduate students. So our graduate students have rights, they can come to us very easily and say, “Hey, Dr. Jung, this instrument I’m really interested in using in Dr. Boris lab. Is that okay?” And I’m like, “Okay, let’s go talk to him.” So it’s an easier conversation. Students have really enjoyed having the open opportunity to collaborate between our labs and so on. And of course, we have many independent projects as well that go on. We are also interested in our independent thoughts and ideas that we pursue them. We also work with many other faculty colleagues. I mean, it’s a mix of everything. It has been quite nice. 

 Brandon Boor: 

I should add that we have worked with IU Indiana University. They have, of course, been our rivals on the basketball court, but we’ve worked with them on many different research papers related to indoor atmospheric chemistry, which has been certainly a positive aspect of a research here at Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

And speaking of Purdue basketball, you can check out some additional bonus content and hear what Brandon and Nusrat enjoy doing together in our Boilermaker community on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. Now, for the past few years, Brandon and Nusrat have been focused on indoor air quality, and studying airborne particle emissions. And how architectural designs and energy-efficient building innovations can impact air quality. So, what’s been this pair’s biggest takeaways from this research so far? 

 Brandon Boor: 

Work recently in the past few years has been really focused on understanding the factors that affect the composition of indoor air. What is in the air that we’re breathing, whether we’re sitting in our home, working in our office, or if you have a student that’s out in the classroom at school. What are the factors that are affecting the air pollution that we’re exposed to? And we try to approach this from different angles. We want to understand how the building affects air quality. Buildings have a big impact on the air that we breathe, whether that’s protecting us from outdoor air pollution, for example, wildfire smoke. We’re contributing to the transmission of respiratory viruses like SARS-CoV-2. But we try to look at it through the perspective of buildings they’re designed and their operation because there’s a lot of opportunity there to make buildings that promote their health and well-being. 

So whenever we do our measurements, we always try to do it in the context of how is the building affecting the composition of air, affecting sources of air pollution, the removal of air pollutants and so forth. Then we also want to look at occupants. So in any indoor environment, people play a big role in what’s going on, whether that’s energy consumption or air quality. Our very presence is releasing a variety of different gases and aerosols to the air around us. 

So we try to look at the role of the occupant, and we have done studies in the Herrick Living Labs looking at this in the zEDGE Tiny House and other facilities where we’re trying to frame the research around people, whether that’s a lot of people present or just one person that’s cooking on a stove top. So we found that occupancy, occupancy patterns, and occupant activities, cooking, cleaning, using personal care products have a big impact on the air that we breathe. So it’s really looking at air quality through the lens of buildings and people, and then trying to frame our results in the context of how can we improve indoor air quality and what are we exposed to? What are we inhaling into our body that may ultimately affect our health? 

Nusrat Jung: 

I very often when I start my class, I do speak about this number that we spend 90% of the time in buildings. When you say it in a sentence, you actually don’t think very much about it, but when you start to think how we are spending our everyday life, then it makes more sense. So for example, you are waking up in a building when you get ready to go somewhere, you go to another building, then you go to another building. So somehow we are moving through many buildings throughout our day and it is incredibly important to understand the fundamental processes that are occurring in these spaces. 

And what may be driving the change in the air that we are breathing, be it outdoors and indoors. So outdoor and indoors are both connected. We have outdoor air that we are going to bring into the… So many ways that the air can come in. Here is very fascinating. I find it to be very fascinating because it is something that you don’t see. So having really, really cool instruments in our lab allowing us to see what we cannot see. So we are able to measure a large particle size distribution in terms of aerosol science, and we are also able to understand the chemistry of the air, so chemical speciation of what is in that. So ultimately, we are trying to understand the constituents of what is in this air and how rapidly it changes because of the activities he conducts in these buildings every day. 

 Brandon Boor: 

I would add that at Purdue University, we’ve been very fortunate to have access to all the most cutting edge air quality instruments. Some of these we own here, they’re in our lab, and some have been on loan to us from our industry partners, but we’ve been really excited to use these really cool sensors, basically. And these are very sophisticated sensing technologies that allow us to measure all sorts of things with excellent resolution. And that has enabled some of the discoveries that we have made. And we’re able to, for example, measure incredibly small airborne particles, nanoparticles that are present in the air when you’re cooking on a gas stove, we’re able to measure all these different chemicals that are in the air second by second. So, I think having access to all this really cutting edge technology at Purdue is really advancing our research. It’s very exciting for us and our students to use this equipment and to bring it all together to tell a story about indoor air quality and what affects it. 

Kate Young: 

So, how and where exactly are Brandon and Nusrat conducting their research? The Purdue Zero Energy Design Guidance for Engineers or zEDGE lab is a 192 square foot tiny house that has all of the features of a typical home that is equipped with sensors for closely monitoring the impact of everyday activities on a home’s air quality. This lab is so uniquely Purdue, and it’s the only residential lab space for indoor air quality research. Nusrat shares more about the Tiny House lab, plus digs into one of the biggest discoveries from her and her team’s indoor air quality research. How chemicals like siloxanes found in hair care products can linger in the air after its use. 

Nusrat, I want to talk to you about the zEDGE Tiny House. you and a group of students designed this back in 2020. Tell us more about this lab. It’s the first of its kind. It’s the only one of its kind. How does it add to Purdue’s status as a global leader in this specific research? 

Nusrat Jung: 

We are continually working to elevate our status. So we are the gold standard, and I really want to continue to strive to recreate the best. I was very fortunate to have received education in India, in Germany, in Finland, and I have a very enriching experience in all of these countries. So when I moved here to the United States, I really wanted to create something that amalgamates all of my experiences, and that resulted in creation of this perfectly tiny house which is also a super high-tech lab. It is a house because we want to provide our audiences to our students, to our researchers, to our fellow people something to relate to. We live in houses, and it really helps connect with the real world activities. So in this lab, everything is looking as if it is a normal house, but it is outfitted with thousands of different sensors. 

We are sensing everything. So this serves for us something called as a completely mixed flow reactor. That means if I were to cause a little bit of pollution in this lab, all of my instruments will light up and collect that data set. And then that data set would allow us to identify, is there an issue with this pollutant? Is there something that we need to be worried about? So this very unique lab has been the source of so many discoveries that have come out from our research lab. One of the major discoveries that we reported last year had to do with chemical products that we are applying in our hair. You mentioned, hairspray, right before you got ready today, I am not so happy to share that perhaps it’s something to avoid. So we found that normal hair care products that you find in grocery shops, any shop that you would go to, it’s actually I have to say quite amazing the number of products there are. 

So if you go to any store, you would see the aisles are filled with them, and we rarely are looking into the composition of the product, right? Because of course we all want to look good, we want to get ready in the morning and improve how we look because that’s how we function as a society. But at the same time, we don’t wish to be exposed to harmful chemicals. So we found that while we are conducting our everyday care routines, we might be exposing ourselves to very high levels of a compound called saloxane. And this compound is bioaccumulated, it is toxic, and it is really not something you should be exposing yourself to. And if you were to be someone who is using a treated appliance in tandem with application of the product, that further exacerbates the volatility of the product. So, this activity is quite unique because you do it every day, but you don’t realize that you’re breathing right here, right? 

So this is our nose and our mouth and this is the delivery of air into our lungs. So, why did we want to deliver the air into advance? We really want to avoid the chemical delivery into our body, to our system. So my general advice about air quality or indoor air or how to avoid this is really being aware of what you are purchase. Always remember, it is a chemical mixture and this mixture as much as it may make you look better or look certain way, it might also be doing other things. So it’s a good idea to always read the products that are behind, and somehow gain an understanding that perhaps reducing our exposure is our number one option. So reduce the number of these products that we bring into our home and possibly avoid things that are scented. 

So it’s nice to use fragrances every now and then, but a continuous exposure during several times a day of something that is chemically charged can possibly not be good for us. I mean, just to think naturally. We all know taking a walk through a forest is a nice thing, but we rarely come across like a whole bed of roses in terms of perfume. I just think about it in terms of my grandfather’s advice, “Everything in moderation,” maybe is the way to go. 

Kate Young: 

I have a strong feeling that our listeners and viewers at home are thinking, “What can I do? What can I do to help control the air quality in my house? How can I still enjoy scented products?” I just sprayed some hairspray before this interview. I know we talked about perfume. Is there anything that we all can do to help improve our air quality at home, in our workplace, et cetera? 

 Brandon Boor: 

So three strategies to improve indoor air quality in your home or an office, the first is better ventilation. This is something that came to light with the COVID-19 pandemic that buildings are just not ventilated sufficiently. So ventilation is a great way to bring in outdoor air to dilute all the contaminants that we’re generating indoors. These can be pollutants that are produced during cooking, [inaudible 00:25:56] activities, but also the human body. So, we’re releasing viruses into air, bacteria, carbon dioxide, and these pollutants can build up over time if buildings are not sufficiently ventilated. So ventilation is a great strategy, but we need to sometimes make renovations to buildings to ventilate them better, install new HVAC equipment. But this is something that can be a very effective mitigation strategy. The second would be filtration. And this can be done within the HVAC system. So the furnace that may be down in your basement or up in the attic, filters can remove contaminants very efficiently. 

We can create do-it-yourself air purifiers that we can place in your bedroom. We can put it into a classroom and those can scrub out pollutants quite efficiently. So filtration is a great strategy to us from all the stuff that we’re generating indoors like viruses and bacteria, but also pollutants that may be coming from the outdoors. So wildfire smoke for example, if you’re living out in California and your home is exposed to wildfire smoke, how could you protect yourself, or you can use better filtration. And these filters can remove the particulate matter from the air. The last is to look at the different sources of air pollution around us. So when we go to the grocery store to buy different products that we bring into our home, we should be thinking about the different types of chemicals that may be present in those products. Some of those are listed on the label, some may be not listed. 

We have to be mindful that our buildings are chemical reactors and we bring in a lot of household products, a lot of personal care products, cleaning products that do contain chemicals of concern. I think this is something where if you just don’t use those products, you could reduce your exposure, but some things are hard to get away from. And some of these sources are connected to the building itself from the different furnishings and building materials that we use. So we have to be thinking about long-term, how can we create products that do not have hazardous chemicals in them? And to raise awareness about the chemical loadings of our home of the indoor environment. Things like forever chemicals like PFAS are quite ubiquitous, and they’re found in many different things. So we have to be thinking about how can we remove these pollutants from the indoor environment, whether it’s better ventilation, better filtration or source control, just not bringing this stuff into our home. These are all effective strategies. 

Nusrat Jung: 

We talked about filtration. That’s great. We want to filter, we use filter media. In buildings, we can improve that. I think the bigger issue is going to be in cities because in cities you are really close to each other’s exhaust vent. So, exhausting everything out of a building may remove it from your immediate breathing zone, but it does not remove it from the atmosphere. 

So we have to understand that buildings are pumping out chemicals and aerosol pollutants into the air that then become part of the whole atmosphere. So, it is a shared volume of air that we have access to, and what can we do to better it? We can really start with looking into these pumping of chemicals. We need to think about how do we filter the air that we are sending out in the world as well. So, we do have solutions and ideas in mind. We do have new discoveries that will come out that will be reported. But it is important to think of systems as a whole, buildings as a whole, the whole world as a whole, how everything is interconnected. So interconnectedness of all of these systems do, they are very important. 

Kate Young: 

So haircare products impacting indoor air quality was one major discovery found from the research being done in the Tiny House lab. But these two researchers are working on another major finding, which involves a popular cozy ritual. In their paper titled Flame-Free Candles are Not Pollution-Free, which was recently accepted by Environmental Science & Technology Letters. Brandon and Nusrat found that scented wax melts actually pollute indoor air as much as normal candles do. The pair explains more. 

Nusrat Jung: 

If you go to any grocery store, but notice that you have candles on one side which has combustion elements. So you have to light it up. And then you have something called as wax melt, which is something that you put in a wax warmer so you don’t have that lighting part of it. So basically we wanted to study, “Hey, what is the real difference in it?” Because they are being sold these days as pollution-free possibility to create scented atmosphere homes. Our major discovery here really led us to understand what is happening in terms of the chemical pollution they are generating at the house. We also notice the really high amount of fragrance that it is injecting beyond a candle that we would purchase normally. 

 Brandon Boor: 

We found that even though the wax warmer, the wax melt has no combustion involved, we’re actually generating similar amounts of airborne nanoparticles as you would have with a candle. So this is a non-intuitive finding. We buy these products, you’re not burning anything. You think that you should not be generating any smoke or particulate matter, but in reality you are. So this is something that we have reported on in a number of papers recently, and that these fragrances that Nusrat is describing are highly reactive, that highly reactive with things like ozone. Ozone comes from the outdoors via ventilation and it can initiate very complex chemical reactions that can form very high concentrations of very small nanoparticles that can get deep into our respiratory system. So what we found is that using these fragrance wax melts can actually produce a lot of nanoparticles. You don’t see them, we don’t see visible smoke, but these particles can impact our health. 

We think they can cause issues with our respiratory system, and we need to be aware that these particles are being formed within the indoor atmosphere. These are processes that are not so simple to understand, but they are occurring in the air around us throughout the day. And they can just be initiated with this burst of fragrance that we release, these very reactive molecules. So, hopefully people could understand that these fragrance products when they smell like lime or lemon or orange or pine, can initiate the formation of very small particles, which can get deep into our respiratory system. And again, this is not something that you would be aware if you’re just looking at the product because you cannot see the smoke particles. 

Kate Young: 

We’ll link their paper in our podcast show notes for you if you want to dig into more detail on this research. Both of you have talked about the industry partners with Purdue and the benefit that we have to work with these types of partners, and I know they’ve benefited from the Tiny House lab as well. So why is that an exciting opportunity for Purdue to work with these industry partners? 

Nusrat Jung: 

We really are very excited to have this opportunity to work with all the industry partners. I’d like to highlight that the equipment we have on the Tiny House, for example, all the appliances and other equipment, they have been donated by two of the largest HVAC companies. We also have industry partners who have contacted us to actually test their instrumentation. So when they see that such creative, exciting discoveries are coming out of this research lab, they really want us to find out the capability of their instruments. 

So we are able to really test the lower threshold and the higher threshold of whatever product that they are producing because we are able to measure so much in our lab. So it has been very exciting to form new industry collaboration. It has happened on several occasions that we have received the instrument to test in our lab before it has been released to the public to purchase. So we are really fortunate because we are always excited with the ability to measure air. If we can do that and help advance industry as well in that direction, we are very happy to take that as I mentioned. 

 Brandon Boor: 

I think that Nusrat highlighted the benefit of working with industry partners, especially related to measurement technologies for air pollution. This has been something that has really helped our research to move it forward. Going back now almost half a decade, working with different companies around the United States and beyond, to use the most cutting edge instrumentation to measure different aspects of air quality that very few people in the world can measure. I think this has really been quite fun for us to use these instruments in Nusrat’s Tiny House, which is such a controlled atmospheric environment. So we can run these very controlled experiments, which enables us to make deep fundamental insights. Since we know everything that’s going on inside the Tiny House when we bring in an instrument, we have the ability to really characterize air pollution dynamics very carefully with a level of precision that you could not do perhaps in other environments. So I think working with companies, working with their cutting edge instrumentation inside of Nusrat’s Tiny House has really been a great experience for the two of us. 

Kate Young: 

I know our This is Purdue team had the pleasure of meeting some of your students. It’s so unique for the to be working in this one of a kind lab as well. What are you hoping that they take away from it? 

Nusrat Jung: 

Okay. First I have to acknowledge that at Purdue University we do a very good job in providing opportunities of research to our undergraduate [inaudible 00:35:54]. That is so important because it’s not just about going through a curriculum for an undergraduate students, it is also about being part of our discoveries. This is really unique that they have an opportunity here at Purdue to participate in our discoveries. We have programs such as OUR, Office of Undergraduate Research. We have also had students from SERF, which is Summer Undergraduate Research Fellowship. We have also had many students that have come from international programs. We have had students from, I think Contest Program from Brazil. We have also had the students from recently all across the world and United States. The students who go here to Purdue have been part of our lab. We also have an [inaudible 00:36:40] which is project management team and where the students really work together in groups to create new engineering solutions. 

All of these students have had access to the tiny house to conduct research with our research groups. So overall, I think over hundreds of students have gone through the lab in terms of taking away new knowledge. I think the number one thing I would like students to take away from this lab instead, buildings are very complex engineering systems, and each building presents a new challenge because it functions differently. For example, a hospital would function very differently than a residential house. 

So what are these parameters that make them different? What are these parameters that make them unique, and what are the things we have to be consistently careful about as engineers to improve our build environment? So I think this lab has allowed the students to have an understanding of these individual parameters that they need to care for to actually create an exceptional built environment. As civil engineers, we really play a very [inaudible 00:37:56] society, we are the foundation of society. Everything we do is behind the scenes, but all of the infrastructure that exists, really civil engineer has a huge role to play with that. So we want to basically enhance their learning in our lives, and hopefully provide them with skill set where they can make better decisions when they go join us [inaudible 00:38:19]. 

Kate Young: 

It sounds like you’re both really passionate about teaching about your students. How do you think that the things that they’re learning at Purdue through the two of you specifically, how will that lead to them solving these tough challenges as we look into the future? 

 Brandon Boor: 

I think we’re trying to give our students a holistic understanding of buildings, which are a critical part of our built infrastructure in the United States, that we want to create buildings of the future that promote our health, our well-being, our productivity that are energy efficient, that integrate all the latest advanced sensing technologies, control technologies, appliances and materials. So I think within civil engineering, within the architectural engineering program, Nusrat and I, our faculty colleagues are really trying to help students, undergraduate and graduate students view buildings holistically. And really have a strong grounding in the fundamentals, the fundamentals of thermodynamics, heat and mass transport and so forth. So they can go into the workforce and bring with them all this new knowledge so they can design buildings of the future that outperform the buildings that we have now that can address issues like indoor air quality needs, optimized lighting and thermal comfort, keep people in the center. 

I think that buildings are designed and created for people. I think that’s something that we try to integrate into our teachings and into our research. We have a lot of opportunity through engineering, through design, to create buildings that optimize our performance, whether that’s in the home or in the office of the classroom. So I think that’s something that we’re trying to focus on for our education program and architectural engineering. And I think we have been successful with that. And I think that we will continue to work on helping our students understanding emerging challenges, societal challenges related to energy, environmental pollution and so forth. So they can really be the leaders. And I think that at Purdue, students get a great education, whether that’s in the fundamentals, but also as Nusrat explained, all this hands-on experience that they can get here through ethics, through research experiences, through co-ops and things like that. They can get a very holistic experience that will prepare them for the workforce or for perhaps a research career if they end up becoming a professor. 

Nusrat Jung: 

We are always excited to see all of them succeed. The way we approach learning in both research and teaching, it’s really also focused on to not shy away from the complexity of the problem. In fact, be very easy about it, take it easy in terms of how complex it is. So understanding something requires that you become comfortable with it being a very complex challenge to solve. So all the students who have gone through our labs, they are very, very, very much at ease looking at large quantities of data set, looking at huge problem in terms of what they are trying to solve, and then really taking a deep dive into each of the items that may have an impact. 

So I think it’s not just about one thing, it is really about the whole picture. The students in our labs have and in our classroom have a very holistic understanding. So, they’re not just book smart. We want them to be actually smart, like really smart. So we try to provide this real environment that we always want to bring them back to reality, that all of these things that they are learning in our classroom have a very real use in the real world, and having mastery of what they are learning here will definitely improve their ability to meet in the future. 

Kate Young: 

Between facilities like the zEDGE Tiny House lab and the innovative Boilermaker collaboration happening daily, Purdue is a global leader when it comes to environmental health research. Brandon shares more. 

 Brandon Boor: 

I think one aspect to that has been the research infrastructure available to Purdue faculty and students. We have a lot of large-scale infrastructure in place so we can do cutting-edge experimental work. I think that’s one of the reasons I’ve really enjoyed being here. Whether it’s been Nusrat’s Tiny House or other facilities that we have access to, these large labs have really allowed us to do really cool things at a scale that you cannot do at other universities. For example, in air quality research, a lot of people may study processes in small chambers. Here we can do full-scale test houses and offices and HVAC systems. I think that has really allowed us to do work that’s fundamental, but has a strong practical element because it’s done in a real environment. 

So I think that’s been very unique. And I think over the past decade and being at Purdue, I think there’s been a growing number of faculty that have working on environmental pollution issues, whether that’s air quality, water quality, and you’re collaborating together. And we have worked with a number of faculty within civil and environmental engineering chemistry tried to study some of these different environmental pollution issues. So I think there’s been a growing focus at Purdue. He’ll look at the environment to try to understand where the pollution is coming from to try to mitigate that pollution, and that really requires expertise from many different areas, engineering, science, health, and so forth. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, last question today, it’s a big one. You get to see all the amazing work at Purdue, all of the researchers in the different fields, what they’re doing every day. What do you want the world to know and remember about the work that Purdue is doing? 

 Brandon Boor: 

So I think Purdue is a leader in engineering research. Being here, I can see that we’re doing really cutting-edge research. We’re doing research that a lot of universities and the world just cannot do because we have the infrastructure in place to do these full-scale investigations. And that spans all the engineering disciplines, whether it’s aerospace to civil, to mechanical and so forth. I think we are just doing really cool things at Purdue that impact society. I am happy to be a part of this engineering program because we’re really focused on doing high quality research on buildings. And I think this is making a difference and I think it will continue to make a difference. The two of us are looking more at the indoor environment, the indoor air quality part of that, but there’s just so much research at Purdue on buildings and how to make them healthier, more energy efficient, and it’s really cool to be a part of that and to see so many different faculty and students studying our built environments from different perspectives. 

And all this high quality research that we produce at Purdue does have an impact. People read it, researchers from around the world read our papers and they learn about the knowledge that we’re generating here in our lab. So we’re sitting in this Tiny House and we can make a discovery and we can publish that. And somebody in Europe, somebody in Asia can read these papers and learn about the new knowledge that we have created. And this can transform the whole research enterprise globally. And I believe that’s what we’re doing at Purdue. We have a lot of very productive faculty that are really generating high quality research that does play a role that can affect policies. It can provide the general public with new insights, and just great to generate this knowledge because it’s something that’s so important. Science is an important part of society, and a lot of this science starts with professors and students and doing really deep work. And I believe that Purdue is a leader in doing this really deep fundamental work that has this practical aspect to it, whether it’s health or technology or so forth. 

Nusrat Jung: 

I also believe it is also the years of training and the years of experience and expertise that you’ve built over the year, right? So there are several years of work has brought to all of these discoveries that have come out. And it is not just simply about your ability to measure, it is also about your ability to take that data, do a deep dive into it, build the mathematical models that allow you to actually see the discovery, then fine tune this work, then publish the work. 

So all of this is really years of hard work that has gone into what has come out of our labs. So, it is the representation of extremely dedicated students that we have very committed professors, exceptional environment in our classrooms of innovation, or excitement about the future. So all of these things when they culminate together, you really do have something brilliant and outstanding. So we are both really excited to be here and to be part of this culture, and also creating our old culture around us. So it’s really just been such a wonderful time and we continue to be excited still every day when we come to the lab, which is quite amazing. 

Kate Young: 

We got to witness a little bit of your culture with the students and getting to see the Tiny House lab in person and getting a tour of that. So we will link that for our listeners as well, and they can check it out on our YouTube page. And speaking of this one of a kind Tiny House lab, Nusrat shares one last interesting fact about the design of this lab that may surprise you all. 

Nusrat Jung: 

So this is very funny. Our toilet doesn’t have a door. So it’s funny when everybody comes in here is like, “Professor Jung where is the door?” I don’t want you to use the toilet, which is why there is no door. So of course it is a house where it’s a lab, and we really want to avoid activities such as using the toilet in the [inaudible 00:48:05]. So that is really funny every time that happens, I have to give a little bit of an explanation to everyone about why we don’t have a door, but we have a toilet. It flushes, it works because of course we also want to monitor all the flows in the building, right? We also have a water meter, and at different points, we are also measuring what is flowing in the building and flowing out of the building. So we want to have a system level approach, to a very engineering approach to all the problems that we look into. 

We are measuring energy, we are measuring air, we are measuring all of the water that flows through the building. We are measuring how these different appliances are operating, what effect they have on the air inside. So we really believe in measuring things because when we measure, we can identify. And the quality of the equipment that you measure with is also very important because you might be looking for something that the instrument cannot detect, so you will never find it out. So it is important to really have a holistic engineering, very scientific approach to looking into each and every query that we conduct in our research labs. 

Kate Young: 

Now, that’s an interesting behind the scenes tidbit right there. Remember, if you want to see this incredible Tiny House lab firsthand, you can watch a special tour with Nusrat on our podcast YouTube page, youtube.com/@thisispurdue. Well, again, thank you so much. I know our listeners and viewers are going to certainly learn a thing or two from this episode, and it was a pleasure talking to you both. 

Nusrat Jung: 

Thank you, Kate, so much. We really enjoyed speaking with you. We wish you a very nice happy New Year. 

 Brandon Boor: 

Thank you, Kate. This was a fun experience for us. 

Kate Young: 

It was a pleasure getting to know these Boilermakers civil engineering professors and researchers, their passion for their research, their students, and the Purdue community really shines. Remember, there’s additional bonus video content from both Brandon and Nusrat on our YouTube page. They walk through more details and suggest useful tools you can use to improve your air quality at home. Trust me, you don’t want to miss it. And of course, be sure to follow, This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts as we continue rolling out new episodes this season. This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Caitlin Freeville. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. 

Our podcast team project manager is Raine Gu. Our podcast, YouTube Promotions is managed by Kristen Bowman. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashwini Malshi. Our video production assistant is Delaney Young. Our This is Purdue intern is Caroline Keim. And Kayla Elbert is the author of several Purdue news articles featuring Brandon and Nusrat’s Research, which you can check out in our show notes. Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. There you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe and leave us a review. And as always, boiler up.

Renee Thomas: This is Renee Thomas and you’re listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty and alumni, taking small steps toward their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Renee Thomas: Sometimes I think that as new students we may be a little bit shy and bashful and not stretch ourselves in terms of relationship building. I think it’s important to stretch yourself. And I think that they will develop community and that sense of belonging by reaching beyond their inner circle. Whenever we come to a university, we tend to congregate with folks that look like us and think like us, and I would encourage them to be that rubber band and stretch outside of their boundaries and take advantage of everything that the university has to offer. 

Kate Young: In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Renee Thomas. As Purdue’s Associate Vice Provost for Student Access and Community Engagement and the former director of the Black Cultural Center, Renee has made a lasting impact in countless boilermaker lives. In 2024, Renee was awarded with two incredible honors. First, the Special Boilermaker Award, which honors a member of the Purdue faculty or staff who has contributed significantly to the improvement of the quality of life or the betterment of the educational experience for Purdue students. She also won the Indiana Civil Rights Commission’s Achievement and Education Award, which recognizes an educator who has used innovative strategies to promote growth and achievement for their students. We dig into both of these honors and what they mean to Renee, plus she shares more about her 35-year Boilermaker journey and how it feels to increase opportunities for students throughout Indiana, especially for Purdue students in both West Lafayette and Indianapolis. 

Our team was so honored to talk to Renee, so let’s get to it. Here’s our conversation. Renee, thank you so much for joining us on. This is Purdue, our official university podcast. We’re just excited because you’ve made such an impact on so many Boilermaker lives over the years, so we’re excited to dig into your journey at Purdue and the legacy that you have. So let’s get right to it. We’ll start at the beginning because you are very well versed in higher ed. Tell us how you got to Purdue and what drew you into the Purdue community back in 1990. 

Renee Thomas: Certainly. Well, first of all, I want to say thank you for this opportunity to share more about my experiences and my commitment to the university as well, so it’s a joy to be here. I came to Purdue back in 1990. Higher education was a field that I wasn’t even aware of at one point that was a professional field that you could go into, so as an undergrad, I worked as an RA in the residence halls and that’s when I first got my exposure to student affairs. I left the university and went to… Ohio University is where I had my first full-time career and it was in the affirmative action office and we were doing some multicultural student programming, and as we were developing that program, Purdue Black Cultural Center was one of the ones that we benchmarked and after I visited, I thought, “Man, that would be a wonderful place to work on a full-time basis.” Lo and behold, an opportunity became available and I accepted it, and 30 years later, I’m still here at Purdue University. 

Kate Young: Creating community and a sense of belonging for students is incredibly important here at Purdue. So how does Renee and her team work to achieve this? 

Renee Thomas: Belonging is so important. We know that students who have a sense of belonging tend to have higher retention at the university and they also tend to perform better academically. It’s important that we provide spaces at the university in which connections can be made because we know that part of the college experience is making lifelong friendships, so connections are important. And then it’s also important to have culturally relevant events and programs and activities and to have a very supportive environment. 

Kate Young: Absolutely. I still have friends from my time at Purdue, so usually in college you do make those lifelong connections I feel like. I know you talked about Purdue’s Black Cultural Center and you admiring it from afar in your first role and it’s nationally recognized as one of the best collegiate cultural centers in the country. So tell me a little bit more about your role when it came to expanding the Black Cultural Center and nurturing it to what it is today. 

Renee Thomas: From a facility standpoint, I’m very excited that we were one of the first freestanding cultural centers in the country and I was very much involved in the securing philanthropic support for the creation of the freestanding facility, and I tell people all the time, it’s not just about the bricks and mortar, but it’s about what happens inside the doors of the BCC and that we have a very robust performing arts ensemble program where they travel all over the country and world doing performance engagements. It’s a way in which the students have that sense of balance. Being a STEM focused campus, the arts is something that is critical in terms of the student having a holistic experience while they’re at the university. 

We also have introduced study abroad programs and research tours at the Black Cultural Center, and it provides students to become global citizens. We are rich institutionally as it relates to our international student population, and not only do students have an opportunity to interact with the international students here, but they also have opportunities to go abroad and get exposure on a global context as well. So we’re really proud about the performing arts ensemble program, which we have five different ensembles to share about the African-American experience through the arts, and it’s not just for African-American students. All students are engaged and actively participating in the Black Cultural Center. 

Kate Young: I know we had a Stephen McKinley Henderson on and he talked about being a citizen of the world and how much the Black Cultural Center and to him during his time at Purdue, so it was cool to see you using some of his language that he also mentioned. 

Renee Thomas: Yes, and it’s interesting because I always tell people that homecoming is usually my favorite time of the year in which alumni come back to the university and have time to reflect about what was important to them as an undergraduate or even a graduate student, and it’s just so affirming to hear the role that the Black Cultural Center has played in student development. It’s a joy to see the impact that many of our alumni are making and they always talk about how they got their start at Purdue University and through the Black Cultural Center programs and activities. 

Kate Young: I asked Renee about other examples of roles that Purdue’s Cultural Centers play in creating a sense of belonging for students. 

Renee Thomas: The cultural centers, not just the Black Cultural Center, but all five cultural centers play a huge role in creating a sense of belonging on campus. Representation is important and the cultural centers provide individuals on their team and staff that represent the populations that they’re serving. They provide culturally relevant programming to affirm our students in terms of their various ethnic identities on campus and it also is a congregating place, a place… We call it sometimes a home away from home for our students, where they can come in and, quote, unquote, “be themselves,” let their hair down and really just hang out with one another and have that sense of community. It builds a strong community and then leadership development as well. Our goal is to nurture the students in such a way that they develop some skills, abilities, and then whenever they leave Purdue, and even during their tenure at Purdue, is that they grow as it relates to their leadership. 

Kate Young: Renee discusses how her role has expanded since the announcements and official opening of Purdue University in Indianapolis on July 1st, 2024. 

Renee Thomas: I think that the primary area in which I’ve seen some expansion are that I’m really involved in some robust engagement initiatives with the city of Indianapolis and organizations throughout the community, and we’re looking to create some very strong partnerships through our outreach efforts, and in turn, we hope that those partnerships and we anticipate that those partnerships will turn into recruitment efforts so that we continue to bring in a very diverse set of students coming to the university and that we recognize too that we are coming into an existing community. Even though Purdue is new to the community, we are the new kids on the block, so we are also recognizing that we have a strong need to continue to familiarize ourselves with the local community and develop the necessary knowledge to engage them in meaningful ways. 

Kate Young: As we discussed earlier, Renee is the associate vice provost for student access and community engagement at Purdue. She discusses how it felt stepping into this role and how she used the three pillars of her work to ensure belonging for all boilermaker students. 

Renee Thomas: This role really was a unique opportunity and I am just so delighted that I have been able to transition into a full-time position. About a year ago, whenever Purdue and IU announced the separation of the two institutions, one of the things that was very paramount is the location of Purdue in Indianapolis. It sits on Indiana Avenue, which is a very historical and vibrant… African-American community existed there prior to the emergence of IUPUI 50 years ago. And as we moved into the community, we wanted to ensure that we were developing positive relationships with the community and because it was a predominantly African-American community, it made natural sense in terms of my passion for African-American culture and history to be able to network and familiarize myself with the local community and develop increased level of knowledge of the community. And that has been great. As I look at the position as associate vice provost for student access and community engagement, I tell people, “I like to look at it from a stool with three legs.” 

One of the legs is community engagement, one of the legs is K through 12 initiatives, and the other leg is student experience. Being able to have impact in each of those areas has been a joy. We’ve done several programming with their students who are currently enrolled as new boilermakers first-year students at Purdue University in Indianapolis and are continuing students. Again, creating that sense of community and sense of belonging. As it relates to the K through 12 area, that’s our pipeline. We know that we want to have more residents from the state of Indiana attending Purdue University and developing those pipeline programs with local school systems, whether it be with the principals, counseling staff and teachers at the various school systems. 

Kate Young: Community engagement is an important part of any student’s journey. With the Purdue and Indianapolis campuses proximity to Indiana Avenue, the Madam C.J. Walker Theater and other institutions of great importance to Indiana’s black community. Renee believes it’s essential to connect boilermakers students and alumni with this historical community. Renee discusses how she and her team are working to do this. 

Renee Thomas: We plan to do that through a variety of ways. We actually started out with BGR, the Boiler Gold Rush, which is the freshman orientation program. We were very intentional in that as we were hosting BGR activities, the main gathering space was the Madam C.J. Walker Center. And as you mentioned, Madam C.J. Walker was a very prominent African-American woman who started a hair care product business in Indianapolis and became the first African-American self-made millionaire and first female millionaire as well. So we actually had BGR at the Madam walker Center. We didn’t just host it at the Madam Walker Center, but we were able to share a video and share information about who Madam C.J. Walker was in the vibrancy of Indiana Avenue. 

As we look at Purdue in Indianapolis, we recognized that we are Purdue’s first urban campus and we want to take advantage of what the entire city has to offer our students at Purdue. Madam C.J. Walker is one example. Another example is the Eiteljorg Museum is right at the back door of Purdue in Indianapolis. We also have the Indiana State Museum and the zoo and so many other areas in which we are doing programming so that our students can be fully integrated into the entire… Not only campus community, but the city as well. 

Kate Young: Absolutely. I love everything around the canal, what you’re talking about, those different museums. It’s such a special place with that urban downtown feel, right? 

Renee Thomas: Exactly. 

Kate Young: Renee shares another example of how she works to help students find that sense of belonging in Indianapolis. 

Renee Thomas: We actually… Back in November, we did what we call a Friendsgiving activity. 

Kate Young: Oh, fun. 

Renee Thomas: And that was one of the largest gatherings that we had sponsored by our office in which we invited students to come into a space on campus and provided them Thanksgiving spread dinner, but not only did we do the dinner, we did a workshop on gratefulness and the importance of asset framing and affirming who we are as students at the university. So that’s just one example of many programming activities that we’ve done to create that sense of community and we’re continuing to leverage the ideas that students are coming to us with and asking them to get their input in terms of programmatic support, what is it that they need, and developing programs and response to them. 

Kate Young: Renee mentioned earlier how important that sense of belonging is during your college experience. It not only leads to higher retention and better academic performance, but it also can form lifelong bonds and connections. So what advice would Renee give to students at both the West Lafayette and Indy campuses when it comes to finding their fit and that sense of belonging during their college experience? 

Renee Thomas: Sometimes I think that as new students, we may be a little bit shy and bashful and not stretch yourselves in terms of relationship building. I think it’s important to stretch yourself on relationship building and stretch yourself as it relates to your academic goals, and I think that they will develop community in that sense of belonging by reaching beyond their inner circle. Whenever we come to a university, we tend to congregate with folks that look like us and think like us, and I would encourage them to be that rubber band and stretch outside of their boundaries and take advantage of everything that the university has to offer. 

Try something new, try something different that you haven’t done before and introduce yourselves. It’s amazing to me sometimes how students say, “Oh, well, I don’t feel comfortable just going up to someone and introducing myself or saying hi.” I think a lot of students have that feeling and if you break the ice, I think that relationships will be developed and that you will have that sense of community. And it may even be that you are walking through one of the buildings at Purdue in Indianapolis and say, “You know what? There’s a flyer advertising a trip to the zoo, or there’s a flyer advertising that the LGBTQ community is doing something at the Phoenix Theater.” Don’t just read those flyers, but stretch yourself like that rubber band and actually go to that program or that activity that you see promoted, and again, introduce yourself while you’re there. 

Kate Young: I love that analogy of the rubber band and I think that’s so true because even as adults in networking situations or at a wedding or at a party, the worst part is the anticipation of going up and introducing yourself, but as soon as you break the ice, like you said, it’s very natural and you feel so proud of yourself for doing that, right? 

Renee Thomas: Exactly. Yes. 

Kate Young: Renee has been at Purdue for 35 years now. I asked her about a few key moments that she’s most proud of when it comes to creating a welcoming environment and fostering this Boilermaker community. 

Renee Thomas: Well, that’s hard to narrow it down to just one or two things. I think one of my proudest moments was whenever we opened the doors of the new black Cultural Center Facility. And again, it wasn’t necessarily about the bricks and mortar, but it was about the activities that happen in there. Another proud moment has been some of our research tours that we’ve taken in which we’ve gone to various cities and really dived into the African-American experience with the arts. Another proud moment has just been the people that I’ve met here at Purdue University. We are a world-class institution and we attract some of the best and brightest minds, not only in the nation, but the best and brightest in the world, and to be able to have relationships with those individuals has been a proud moment. And as I mentioned earlier, homecoming is always a proud moment for me to know that some of the work that I’ve done over the years has played a very positive impact on the success of students in terms of developing their self-confidence and their self-advocacy and their willingness to be their authentic selves. 

Kate Young: Speaking of the boilermaker community and its people being special, in the fall of 2024, Renee was awarded the Special Boilermaker Award, which honors a member of the Purdue faculty or staff who has contributed significantly to the improvement of the quality of life or the betterment of the educational experience for Purdue students. You may remember our recent This is Purdue podcast guest, Antony Cawdron, was also a recipient of this award. Renee shares what this honor meant to her. 

Renee Thomas: That was one of the most humbling and emotional experiences I’ve had at Purdue. The actual award was announced by the Alumni Association at a family dinner, which is a gathering that the Office of Diversity Inclusion and Belonging does on an annual basis, and I was emceeing that dinner and at the very end of the dinner they announced this Special Boilermaker Award, and I was thinking that it was… I wasn’t sure what was going on in terms of the program, and to hear my name announced, it was just overwhelming. And then to have the honor bestowed at the football game, which was sold out, and it was just an incredible fan experience that intercollegiate athletics has created. I had not been in the stadium probably a couple of years prior to COVID, and I was like, “Oh my gosh, I have to get season tickets now. This is just such incredible, vibrant, over-the-top experience.” So it’s been very humbling and also a time of reflection for me. 

Kate Young: That’s an interesting twist that you were emceeing the event and then they said that you won it. That’s awesome. 

Renee Thomas: It was quite an emotional time and totally unexpected. It was more than I could have ever imagined. 

Kate Young: Renee also received the Indiana Civil Rights Commission’s Achievement and Education Award in 2024. This award recognizes an educator who has used innovative strategies to promote growth and achievement for their students. Renee explains more about this incredible honor and what it means to her, plus she reflects on her career and those initial goals she had coming into the Boilermaker community. 

Renee Thomas: That award was presented by the Indiana Civil Rights Commission, and I must say I saw this award as being a community-wide award. Yes, I was named as the recipient, but I recognize that I stand on the shoulders of so many that come before me and have paved the way, and I just felt that it was a pinnacle moment in my career and one that I know that it was a result of a community-wide efforts in terms of the importance of educating individuals within the state of Indiana. It was just very pivotal and one in which, again, I think that sometimes we don’t always recognize tireless efforts of others and how that has played a critical role in catapulting us to our successes, and there’s many esteemed leaders on campus that I admire and feel that they are part of the receipt of this award as well. 

Kate Young: Absolutely. How does it feel to be a leader who’s increasing opportunity for all different types of students throughout the state of Indiana? 

Renee Thomas: I feel that education has the potential to transform people, to create opportunities that they may or may not have had otherwise, and the fact that I can play a small part of that transformation has been very rewarding. The testimonials that I hear from students and the brilliance that they bring to the campus as well, I think that sometimes we don’t always asset frame our students and recognizing that they have so much to give and that we are educating individuals that will discover a cure for cancer. We’re educating individuals that will be role models and mentors to youth. We are educating individuals that hopefully will cure climate issues in our world, and it is just amazing to have some small part in the many, many attributes that Purdue alumni carry forward. 

Kate Young: I love that. You talked about reflecting back on your career when you won these two different massive awards this year. When you look back on your career when you first started, was it always a goal for you to be creating this sense of community, increasing opportunities for students? What would you say when you look back? 

Renee Thomas: I would say that Purdue has created an environment in which I have been able to flourish and thrive, and I am so appreciative of that. When I first came to the institution, I came here thinking, “Oh, three to five years, I’ll move on to the next opportunity, whatever it happens to be.” Little did I know I will be putting a number behind that three. It wouldn’t be just 3, but 30 plus years, and that really speaks to the environment that exists here that we work at an institution that is dedicated to excellence. We work at an institution that embraces creativity. We work at an institution that wants everyone to be better than their former selves, and in talking with some of my colleagues at other institutions and other professions, not everybody has that opportunity to work in such a supportive environment. I am grateful for that and I am appreciative of it as well. 

Kate Young: Renee also reflects on her personal mentors and how they’ve impacted her career and how she approaches her role here at Purdue. 

Renee Thomas: When I think about my mentors, one in particular was a faculty member at my undergraduate institution. She believed in me when I didn’t believe in myself, and I think that that is something that I try to instill upon students today because some of the students that come here, Purdue is a challenging environment, and I think that some students have doubts and fears whenever they come, and it’s important to see them successful even before they see themselves as being successful. That’s something that I have carried with me. And then even here at Purdue, there are several mentors and role models that I look to that I think some of them are not even aware that I see them as role models and mentors, but the way in which they carry themselves, the way in which they engage in very complex and challenging conversations and still maintain their integrity and authenticity is something that I always look towards and find that is an inspiration. 

Kate Young: Finally, I asked Renee why she’s continued to stay at Purdue for the past three and a half decades. What does this special boilermaker community mean to her? 

Renee Thomas: At the end of the day, the boilermaker community means to me, possibilities. Purdue’s community is a place in which you can come and explore all kinds of possibilities and not only explore those possibilities, but to make them become reality. And that’s the beauty of the institution, is that it creates an environment in which you can explore a variety of possibilities and not only do the exploration, but also implement those possibilities and come to the realization that those possibilities become achievable goals. 

Kate Young: Well, Renee, we can’t thank you enough for joining us today. Is there anything else that you think is important to share with our listeners? 

Renee Thomas: I just want to share with the listeners to take full advantage of the opportunities that exist here on campus and recognizing that collaboration is absolutely critical. We don’t do it alone, and it’s important that we continue to dedicate ourselves to the work that exists here. 

Kate Young: Absolutely. Well, again, we so appreciate your time and we’re excited to share this episode out with the world. 

Renee Thomas: Thank you so much, Kate. I appreciate the opportunity. 

Kate Young: We’re so thankful Renee joined us on This is Purdue to discuss her impactful career. Our boilermaker students are lucky to have a leader like Renee. You can watch Renee and learn how students can find involvement and connection at Purdue on our podcast YouTube page, YouTube.com/@thisispurdue. And remember to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts, as we continue to roll out new episodes for our Spring 2025 season. This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger and Thad Boone. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. 

Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Teresa Walker and Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Caitlyn Freville. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast team YouTube Promotions is managed by Kierstin Bauman. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz and Ashvini Malshe. And our This is Purdue intern is Caroline Kime. Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcasts. There you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe and leave us a review. And as always, boiler up. 

Mike Berghoff: 

This is Mike Berghoff and you’re listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking. Who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators? Who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty and alumni taking small steps toward their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Mike Berghoff: 

It’s been really fun to watch an idea get formulated and implemented by people who are talented and fired up. It’s the part I’m going to miss a lot. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Mike Berghoff, chair of the Purdue University Board of Trustees. Mike is a Boilermaker alum who is passionate about all of the many things that make Purdue Purdue. He bleeds Gold and Black as do his wife and three kids who all attended Purdue as well. A 1985 graduate with a bachelor’s degree in industrial management, Mike has helped lead the university through incredible growth and success while managing significant challenges in the higher education landscape and operating through a global pandemic. During his time as chair, things like enrollment, national and global rankings, fundraising, research breakthroughs and partnerships have all seen significant increases. He served under two presidents, Mitch Daniels and Mung Chiang and has helped raise Purdue’s reputation and standing among the world’s top institutions of higher education. In October, Mike announced his retirement as chair of the Board of Trustees, effective January 1st, 2025. 

So in this special episode, we’re celebrating and reflecting on his 15 plus years of service. During his time as trustee, Mike has served as liaison to Purdue Athletics, chair of the Purdue Global Board, chair of the Physical Facilities Committee, chair of the 2012 Presidential Search Committee, chair of the 2016 search committee for the Director of Intercollegiate Athletics and member of the Purdue Research Foundation Board and Purdue Fort Wayne transition team. He’s been busy, right? 

He also promoted the design and creation of a university master plan that led to a student success corridor, pedestrian walkway, and new gateways to Purdue’s main campus. As we dive into initiatives Mike has overseen, like Purdue’s Unprecedented 13-year tuition freeze, the recent launch of Purdue’s expansion into Indianapolis, the return of commercial air service and a planned new terminal for Purdue University airport, and so much more, you’ll see Mike’s passions and emotions for his beloved alma mater. Thanks for joining us for our last This is Purdue episode of 2024 as we celebrate the Mike Berghoff. Okay, Mike, thank you so much for joining us on This is Purdue. We’re so excited to celebrate you, reflect back on all your time. We’re really excited for this interview, so thank you. 

Mike Berghoff: 

I’m a little apprehensive, a little nervous. I hope I can do a really good job of capturing the best things that happened in those 15 years to Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

And we’re just excited. We know how passionate you are about Purdue. You’re a Boilermaker yourself. Okay, so you’re going to retire as chairman of Purdue’s Board of Trustees come January 1. But let’s go back to the beginning because you went to Purdue as a student. What first drew you to Purdue? What attracted you to coming to Purdue? 

Mike Berghoff: 

I would say the primary reason occurred late in April, hadn’t made a decision about a college and I was planning on playing football and that required me to go to a smaller school, until a former Purdue football star from Fort Wayne, Roosevelt Barnes, happened to be working out in a gym that I was working out at. It was at Dwenger High School because they had an advanced weight room and everything. And so Roosevelt Barnes was a four-year starter in basketball and in his fifth year decided to play football and ended up getting drafted by the Lions and played in the NFL for a number of years, so that tells you what kind of talent he was. 

And one time while we were in the gym together, I was slow but I was strong and I weighed more than I do now. He said, I am going to make a phone call. You need to call the folks at Purdue, the coaching staff and you need to go there. I let that be the deciding factor and off I went. And my football experience was short. It was two years. The first year was better than the second year because I was in better shape than a lot of the student athletes who didn’t have the same kind of gym as we did, but talent wins and they were way more talented. So it was the best pivot, last-minute pivot I’ve probably ever made for something like that. 

Kate Young: 

It changed the trajectory of your life. 

Mike Berghoff: 

Changed everything. 

Kate Young: 

Tell us about your student experience. You were a proud fraternity member with Theta Chi, you played football two years. What are some of your favorite memories from your time as a student? 

Mike Berghoff: 

At the beginning, let’s start with what that entry experience was because I accepted to go to Purdue late. I didn’t have any housing, so I show up and I have to get an apartment. So I am in an apartment with my brother and a goofy friend of his and I slept on the couch and that was about two to three weeks or maybe four weeks and an opening in one of the dorms became available. So I move in to Owen Hall Northeast 449 and it was an eight person, was an eight man. There were four rooms, two students each except it was a 10 because the need for rooms exceeded supply. So they put three mans and I was the 10. I wasn’t very welcome initially because I crowded out the space, but it turned out to be one of an incredible experience because I keep in touch with all nine. 

We were on top of each other for a whole year and I was a Owen Hall dormer and it was great. It provided really the first time ever for such a significant difference in each of the students you met, background, interests. And then the other thing that stayed with me was how the second semester there was a lot more room in the dorm than the first semester and a lot of people went bye-bye. And so sharpen the saw and don’t let that happen to you. So it was a great start. And then I guess just the second half of that was rushing and a good number of the guys in the dorm room, we all rushed together and the Theta Chi fraternity is just down the hill and that whole experience was terrific and lent a lot of other meaningful things to me. 

Kate Young: 

I’m a proud Delta Zeta right next door. 

Mike Berghoff: 

Oh yeah. The Acres. 

Kate Young: 

Mike shares more about a few professors and mentors who significantly influenced his college experience and career path. 

Mike Berghoff: 

A couple of folks come to mind. One was a physics professor named Professor Schluter and he was German and I thought, this is perfect. It’s like a movie, a German physics professor. He just had the most simplistic way of describing complex concepts, not really concepts in physics, they’re like laws, this is how it works. It was the first time I was so impressed about transferring knowledge in a teacher-student relationship that and partly because of the numbers were so big, I remember him very clearly. The second person was the alumni advisor at Theta Chi fraternity, Father Phil Bowers. He was the first person I ever met at Theta Chi, and it was in the summertime. He was a Maryknoll priest and he started out his priesthood in the Philippines in some of the most remote regions of the country. He was just an incredible advocate for life, for growth, for tolerance, and we became really close friends. One academic, Phil was campus-wide. He used to say Purdue has more Catholics than Notre Dame. We did. It was 10,000, but Notre Dame is only like 7,500. 

Kate Young: 

Mike was appointed a Purdue trustee in 2009 and has served as chair since July 2015. And by now you know that he’s a proud Boilermaker alum. So how did his values and experiences as a student shape his approach to serving his university? Mike digs into Purdue’s a well-recognized and admired tuition freeze. Plus, he shares an interesting story about reconnecting with the Boilermaker community post-graduation, which involved a job interview with Purdue Athletics. 

Mike Berghoff: 

It really opened my eyes to making sure the Purdue experience is attainable for all different sorts of students and you get reminded about the difference. Every time I ever went up there, there was some reminder about how different students are and what pathway they’ve sometimes had to take to make it work. Some students work full-time, some are really shy and they don’t get in a dorm they want or a fraternity they want. And then the financial part of it, that was a very important piece. 

So we started increasing scholarship opportunities and we decided to maybe make some more sense to expand more rapidly than we ever contemplated. And then of course the tuition freeze. It was a classic. Mitch came in and it’s really his very first meeting and Mitch’s way, well, I know this probably won’t work and folks will think it’s a bad idea and it might be a bad idea. Not sure we should do it, but boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Here’s the reasons why. That was an important piece of it and we thought it would only maybe last a year and here it is, 13, 14 years later. 

Kate Young: 

When you graduated, were you still involved in the Boilermaker community? What brought you back to serve in these roles for Purdue? 

Mike Berghoff: 

I had my first job was in Detroit, made it a little bit more difficult, but I found ways to come to campus. Also Kristin was working. I was working. We were in our first jobs, then we started having some kids, so it made it difficult. But anytime Purdue played at Michigan State or Michigan, we’d find an excuse and there are a lot of Purdue people in Detroit. I didn’t follow two closely about the important things at Purdue, but mostly what was happening in athletics and I had a burning fire for something to do there and I didn’t work very hard at trying to make it work for me until I read this post. 

I don’t even know where it was, couldn’t have been on social media because I wasn’t there. But that Morgan Burke, the athletic director at the time, which I’m going to say was probably 1992 or three or four, had made a decision to hire an in-house marketing person that would handle all of the marketing for Purdue athletics. And I’m reading this, I’m like, perfect for me. I’m going to apply. I told Kristin, I said, hey, look at this. Can you believe this? This job is hardwired for me. 

Kate Young: 

Dream job. 

Mike Berghoff: 

Yeah, I can’t believe it. She goes, well, how much are you going to make? Who cares? So it was a bad number. But anyway, so I interviewed and I was told there were a hundred people who had applied for the position. The short list had a one-on-one interview with Morgan. So I made the short list and it turns out there were only two of us is what they told me. So I had come down and I’m sitting in Morgan’s lobby in the same building that’s there today. It was new at the time. I go in for my interview and it went really well. I was pretty certain I nailed it. I was already thinking about, okay, where am I going to live? And as he ushers me out the door, the second candidate was a fraternity brother of mine at the same time. 

And the search was confidential and we had no idea. So it was like kidding me. So he goes into the interview and he ends up getting the job and he deserved it. He had a much better profile of experience that was suited for it. He was in sales and working for a medical company, but his name is Bob Bernard. I will not, I forgive him for it, but having made it all the way there, I started thinking about, well, maybe I have some influence over whether or not I get involved. And so I just started to stay close and then we moved to Indianapolis and then the connectivity kicked in. 

Kate Young: 

Mike takes us back to the moment he received the call about potentially serving as a Purdue Trustee, which ultimately changed the course of his life. 

Mike Berghoff: 

I was in Chicago with Kristin and we were at some mart. We had just bought a house and we were redoing it and I got a phone call and it was Earl Goode and he introduces himself and he says, my name is Earl Goode. He’s a southerner, comes from southern Indiana. And he was working in the governor’s office, explained that he wanted to talk to me if I had any interest in being a trustee. I knew who Earl was, but I didn’t know much about him. I knew enough that I needed to pay attention to the call. He was the chief of staff of the governor and thinking Trustee? Isn’t that what, when people die, don’t you have, is that what it is? No, I don’t have any experience, I didn’t even know what it was. He said, okay, well, I just wanted to know if you’re interested and maybe we’ll get back to you. 

And then about a month later, we were celebrating Kristin’s birthday at Ruth’s Chris at Keystone, and I’m getting out of the car and Earl calls again and he said, I’d like you to come in for an interview. I said where? I need you to come down to the State House and we’d like you to meet the governor. I went, okay. So I tell Kristin, the only trustee I really knew was Bill Osterling. I go, do I need to wear a suit down there? And he goes, yeah, I recommend you wear a suit. 

So I went down and Mitch was having a press conference and the room was full and there was a lot of hustle. And right when I got there, his executive assistant said, oh, did you get my message? And I thought, that means the governor’s going to be delayed. He’s got this press conference. I said, I can wait. Mitch came out, grabbed me, says, I’d like you to sit in on this one. Okay. It’s the first time I really met him. So we went through the press conference and I watched him work and it was remarkable. I won’t go into what the press conference was about, but it was a battle between him and the state legislature about the budget. So they clear it all out. We sit down and he interviews me for about two hours, which for Mitch is a long time. 

I didn’t know that at the time, but I got up, it was over. Walking out the door and I was kind of like, maybe there’s somebody else out there. And he looked at me and he says, you’re my guy. That’s how it began. 

Kate Young: 

Take us back 15 years ago. What were you thinking when you first came in as a trustee? What were some of your goals and how did that vision evolve to today? 

Mike Berghoff: 

Once the trigger got pulled, I started, I’m pretty active about thinking about how I can help, and one area that was close to me that Purdue was failing in was on the whole physical facilities department was not well-liked by any engineers or contractors in the state. In fact, I had significant numbers of Purdue people say they’d rather work for the physical facilities department in Indiana than Purdue, and I knew it because we had considered doing work up there too, and it needed an overhaul. It was a 50-year overdue overhaul. 

And so that was the first thing I started on. I remember one of our very well-known alums, Bob Bowen, you probably have had one with him. He came over and he says, you’re never going to get it fixed. I said, okay. We got at it, made some changes, and now Mike Cline, Jay Wasson, the entire team over there is preferred. We went from deferred to preferred. That was the primary thing. The second thing was athletics. We were in a very bad spot. Nobody was happy. I wasn’t happy and I knew that we needed to elevate that because that’s the front door for many people. That became a high priority. Keith Krach appointed me the first liaison to athletics, and that’s what I started focusing on. 

Kate Young: 

It’s your background. 

Mike Berghoff: 

Right. 

Kate Young: 

What were those early days like? Do you remember? 

Mike Berghoff: 

They were with Morgan. He was frustrated and he had a couple of things that he wanted to get accomplished. One of them was the baseball stadium, the women’s softball and the women’s soccer field. I think we had progress on those. There was resistance. I wasn’t the only one, but I helped get those out of the way and we got them all built. And that was the first time people started to realize, ooh, maybe we got something here. The next big thing, which I think was a big, big deal, was a football complex. Mitch and I went at it for a while. He just didn’t want to spend the money, but he knew internally it was important and just kept pounding him and pounding him and pounding him. He had some very good points. I had some very good points. And one point in his office, he grabbed his napkin and he said, I surrender. Let’s get this thing done. And so when that building went up, it sent a signal. Everything’s changed. Those were two really big steps for me and I think we’re partway the pathway to advancing in the board. 

Kate Young: 

For those who don’t know, leading Purdue’s board of trustees is not Mike’s only gig. He is also the founder and president of Lenex Steel, a steel fabrication company based in Indianapolis. We actually shot our interview with Mike right inside his office at Lenex. Mike shares how he’s managed to balance his full-time role at Lenex with working for the board of trustees over all of these years. 

Mike Berghoff: 

It’s an exercise for sure. I spent more time at Purdue than here by a large margin, made possible by the staff we have here. It was a challenge to them, and so they answered the challenge. I let them run. Nothing but growth occurred, so I didn’t have many knobs to turn. Now it does prevent some very significant decisions from being made that only the president or CEO can make, and that’s how I’m going to spend my time starting January 1st. We’re going to start addressing those types of topics. 

Kate Young: 

How did this position here and all of the work that you’ve done with your company influenced how you work and collaborate with people within Purdue and key stakeholders? 

Mike Berghoff: 

The role of Purdue helped me network with my industry folks. They would communicate with me. They’d call if they had a problem or ideas. Lots of them have ideas, really good ideas. So that was one way. Culturally here, for me, it’s all about the people and then the customer. That’s something I took to Purdue. I wasn’t exclusively that, but I wanted to make sure that that was the mentality we had and I think that existed and got better. But I also probably benefited more from the exchange about what we’re doing at Purdue here. I got to watch a lot more people and I got so many different departments and it’s a complicated place. It’s a complex place. So I got a lot of exposure that most business people don’t have and that helped us here. 

Kate Young: 

Purdue University is the number one most recognized public university in the country. What moments stand out to Mike as pivotal in shaping our university’s legacy over the years? 

Mike Berghoff: 

I think it was confirmation that all that we had allowed us to attain that level, and I think we kept a cover on it too long because of humility. And that is one of the things that I worked on really heavy is promoting them as a board strategy is we needed a comprehensive marketing strategy. And it started with Dan Hasler making a position for him and investing in that, and that’s what happened. And so I think the roots for that being the most, well-known Purdue University were there, but they were undercover and all we did was turn the light on. People noticed. 

Kate Young: 

As chair, you’ve supported the 13-year tuition freeze. We talked about that a little bit, so rare in higher education. How have you seen this impact Purdue students and families? You said previously that’s one of the most important things that you’ve gotten to work on, and it was so important to your heart. 

Mike Berghoff: 

Walking around, seeing students working in all economic backgrounds, it hit you there. The number of parents who refer to that as one of the main reasons their children are going to Purdue, it’s another key factor. And plus I think it showed innovation and an appetite for risk that we were willing to do something that hardly anybody was willing to do. We took the complexity out of it, made it really simple. We just said, as long as our revenues exceed our expenses, why would we raise tuition? And so we had a surplus and we said, when the surplus goes away, we’ll raise tuition. Well, here we are. It’s been 13 years of surplus and 13 years of flat tuition. 

Kate Young: 

The Purdue Moves initiative in 2013 and Purdue’s next moves in 2021 were transformative for the university. Mike shares more about the impact of these initiatives on Purdue’s community and reputation and his role in shaping them. 

Mike Berghoff: 

I think for the board, Mitch hatched the idea and it was a signal that we’re on the move. We will set some bold initiatives and targets to go with them and we have the people to do it. That’s how it started. It’s been really fun to watch an idea get formulated and implemented by people who are talented and fired up. That made the 150th an easy decision, and we had an excuse to even go bolder, which was the anniversary, and that helped highlight the university. So maybe we got another one coming. 

Kate Young: 

And then more recently we have the Mitch Daniels School of Business. We have Purdue Computes, One Health. All of these initiatives are emerging. What excites you about these and what it means to the future of Purdue? 

Mike Berghoff: 

The most exciting for me personally was the Daniels School of Business. Our business school in the sixties and seventies were highly regarded, lost our way in the eighties and nineties, didn’t really have the identity. And so Gary Layman, Mike Klipsch and I all came out of that program and decided that we wanted to have a look at what could we do differently at the Daniels School. When Mitch came on board, it was really the leverage we needed. He said, this is a perfect justification, let’s name it after him and totally rebuild the school in a different way with combination of engineering and business. Build a new building so we can handle the growth. That’s a big one. And then the One Health, it’s just so practical. Animal, people and plant health and to partner with folks in Indianapolis downtown at the same time Purdue University Indianapolis, it’s a great fit and we’re going to expand our footprint. 

Kate Young: 

You’ve also overseen the return of commercial flights. We recently did a podcast about that and all these different partnerships, Rolls-Royce, etc. What do these developments mean to you that had such a big role in that? 

Mike Berghoff: 

The best thing about this is it builds a stronger web, geographic web around campus for people like Saab and Rolls-Royce, and to bring their folks and now SK hynix. And that web ideally is going to build a stronger, more interesting West Lafayette, which brings all sorts of things, entertainment, retail, food and beverage, new residents. And that’s what I’m excited to watch. Our downtown really isn’t, the boundaries aren’t perfectly suited, and with this expansion, there’s going to be more room and there’s going to be more people who are going to be looking for housing in West Lafayette. And I think that’s the neatest thing. And when an airline comes, if it’s successful, it’s another visual tool that people say, wow, they’re on the move. 

Kate Young: 

I even look back when I was a student, we never went to downtown Lafayette. I’m trying to think of how long ago I was a student. Anyway, doesn’t matter. But now I love downtown Lafayette and there’s so much more vibrancy and things to do and cute little streets and shops and restaurants. So that’s been really fun for me to see when I came back to work for Purdue. 

Mike Berghoff: 

Yeah, there’s a lot to like down there. 

Kate Young: 

Purdue is frequently part of national conversations on innovation, affordability and workforce development. So what does Mike see for the future of Purdue when it comes to our reputation continuing to evolve both nationally and internationally? 

Mike Berghoff: 

I think people expect us to continue to be innovators. They’re looking for routine improvements that nobody else thought of, our peers haven’t thought of, and create them to be followers. And we’re the leader, and I think that’s what Purdue people want. That’s what the state legislature would like. It’s what the state deserves and I have an appetite for that. I just can’t stand still and let it go. That requires investment and I’m confident the board will continue to see that as a primary objective for. 

Kate Young: 

You talked a little bit about how you had to balance between your full-time job and being chairman. With all the different projects and these complex decisions you had to make, how did you adapt to that? How did you face these challenges and overcome them throughout your time on the board? 

Mike Berghoff: 

Well, most of them made sense, but not all of them were supported. My primary approach as board chair was to seek understanding of all 10 and make sure everybody understands what the subject is and why it’s important. And then if I did enough to make sure they could communicate together, the outcomes came easier and almost always were the right decision. And that’s just the style I deployed. I’m not a, this is what I think we should do. I save that. It’s more like, hey, I’d like to get your opinion on this, this, and this. And we have a really strong board who’s unselfish, not power seeking, and they’re just really collaborative. That was very fortunate for me. 

Kate Young: 

They’re all passionate about Purdue. 

Mike Berghoff: 

Very passionate. 

Kate Young: 

You used a word earlier that I loved, fired up. They’re fired up to serve Purdue, right? 

Mike Berghoff: 

Fired up and restless with good intent. 

Kate Young: 

When Mike announced his retirement in October, former Purdue President Mitch Daniels said, “I’ve been trying for days to sum up concisely how massive a contribution Mike Berghoff has made to the success of Purdue during his chairmanship of our board. It’s beyond me. The record is too huge.” And Purdue, president Mung Chiang said, “Every moment Mike has the best interest of Purdue and his heart, and every moment he pours his heart into Purdue. Our university is blessed to have Mike Berghoff as one of the best Boilermakers ever.” I asked Mike how working so closely with these two remarkable Boilermaker leaders has impacted his life. 

Mike Berghoff: 

First of all, when you’re leaving, people say that stuff about you, whether it’s true or not. So don’t get too excited about that. It’s the part I’m going to miss a lot. Mitch’s leadership is something to watch. Look at his success and where he started. So it was a real privilege. It helped that I chaired the search for Mitch in 2012. That helped a lot because we were recruiting him. So there was a lot of conversation between the first request, hey, do you have an interest? And him saying yes. 

And so I had to work that and Keith Krach had to work that. We had a search team that was on a separate path. Those were my very first observations with him, and that set me up pretty well I think once the board decided I was going to be the board chair. And then with Mung, it’s a whole different kind of a talent. He’s one of the most talented persons I’ve ever met. Just his intellectual skills, his high motor, his compassion, sensitive person, wonderful family who just took on a big job. I like being with his family. I learned something from him and he learns a lot from me because we both have those gaps and we fill them together. We’re in really, really, really good hands. It’s going to be an exceptional run for him. It’ll get better every year. 

Kate Young: 

Mike shares a few more stories from his time on the board that have deeply impacted him. 

Mike Berghoff: 

There’s been so many, some that are comical that occurred when Bob Bowen learned that I was chairing the search. He called me up and he said, I’ll be at your office in five minutes. I have a list of prospective candidates. His office is like a half a mile. Shows up here. First guy you should get, but you never will, Mitch Daniels. So number two was some general in the Navy or Army, you’re probably not going to get him either. Then he had three or four. 

Kate Young: 

He seemed to challenge you a lot throughout the year. 

Mike Berghoff: 

Yeah, that’s the way is it, flies in and flies out. And the other thing I’ve been struck by since making the announcement is it’s really moving. How many people have come up to me and said, when I’m at the basketball game last week, I’m going up the aisle and a couple of folks that don’t even know stop me and look at me in the eye and say, thank you. They’re like, for what? There’s just a lot of great stories like that, hearing about students interactions with certain faculty and they say, the person changed my whole life. Just so many different avenues you can go. Oh, and with alumni, donors, you hear why donors give. It’s really moving and the numbers, they’re huge, it opened my eyes. There are a lot of people that have a lot of money and have interest in some really cool causes. There’s never been an interaction. Almost every trip I’d take up there, there’s some sort of interaction that reinforces why it’s been worth it. 

Kate Young: 

So as Mike prepares to step down as chairman in 2025, what legacy does he hope to leave at Purdue? 

Mike Berghoff: 

The board is, I don’t worry about it at all. I want them to be hungry and restless and be number one, be the reason why we’re on national news because of innovative ideas and because we’re doing different things. I want parents to call and say what great experience their kids have and can’t believe it exceeded their expectations. I want it to be a more significant part of the state, play a broader role nationwide. I know we’re the most recognized public university in the country. That’s an important thing to sustain because it means you’re relevant. You have some purchasing power. I don’t want to be quiet. We need to compete at a high level at athletics, need to keep proving our facilities, the master plan. I’m certain it’s going to happen. If it doesn’t, maybe I’ll come back. 

Kate Young: 

Famous last words. What advice would you share with alumni or anyone in the Boilermaker community? How can they get involved and maybe stay involved? 

Mike Berghoff: 

One, I would say stay in touch with trustees if you know them because it makes a difference. People call and make suggestions, folks who never heard or you’re on a trip and you meet them and I start registering. A person has some skills, some background, maybe they’d be a good board member or maybe we should hire them or maybe we can give them a special assignment to do. There’s a lot of that. Obviously the alumni association, connectivity helps. Stay engaged, follow and something good’s going to come out of it. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. A little behind the scenes moment here. Mike said that he met his wife Kristin, also a Boilermaker, at Sgt. Preston’s in downtown Lafayette. Mike shares more about how he and Kristin have kept it all in the family when it comes to bleeding gold and black. I want to get to the personal side of Mike Berghoff. I know you have three kids. They all went to Purdue. 

Mike Berghoff: 

They did. 

Kate Young: 

What does that mean to you to watch them grow up, follow in your footsteps at Purdue and probably some of the time you were on the board while they were students, I imagine? 

Mike Berghoff: 

What makes you think they had a choice? Lauren was the oldest and I said, you can go to any place you want and reason as long as you have a compelling reason. She came back, she says, dad, I’ve looked far and wide and I want to go to the University of Colorado in Boulder. I said, what’s your compelling reason? She says, they don’t have school on Fridays in the winter so we can all ski. Said, you got the colors right, you’re going to Purdue. And then she quickly discovered that having a dad who is a board chair had some advantages. So she got pretty comfortable. And then my second daughter followed her sister and I was on the board and my son was kind of the same thing. Everybody had a great experience, so that helped. 

Kate Young: 

What does that mean to you to have this big Boilermaker family now? 

Mike Berghoff: 

Yeah, I love it. Kristin mostly loves it except when it invades personal life. A lot of our travel was centered around Purdue travel. Hey, kids, Thanksgiving is going to be in Dayton Ohio this year. Why’s that? Well, first round of the tournament. It’ll be new and fresh us to do some other things, and I’m excited about, and she is too. I’m excited. I’ll be around more. I’ll be here more in the office, and I’m really looking forward to that. 

Kate Young: 

Finally, Mike shares his next giant leap with us and sums up what this entire experience as both a trustee and chair as meant to him throughout the years. 

Mike Berghoff: 

I think on the professional side, I’ve labeled this next decade is where we’ve completed two decades. First decade was about survival. Second decade was about growth. The third decade, which we started in February, is about transformational change that’s within the company. I don’t need to go in what that means, but it means growth and transformation of systems and our production facilities, and that can’t happen without me. So I’m excited about that. Personally, I don’t know. It’s going to be tough. I’m going to miss going up there, coming over the bridge, seeing the tower, going over the Wabash River. That’s when I start to get off the phone and change my gear and parking spots. I’m going to miss it. Maybe I’ll be a relaxed fan. 

Kate Young: 

You’ve been at Purdue for so many pivotal moments and a couple leadership changes. What has this whole experience meant to you, to sum it all up? 

Mike Berghoff: 

I wildly underestimated what it would mean to me. Well, I didn’t know what to think of it until I walked in the door for my first board meeting, and so I also got to thank Bill Osterley. He was deceased. He was on the board at the time, and I never asked him, but was pretty clear he was the one who recommended me to Mitch and he was a fraternity brother. He was a better friend with my brother John than he was with me. But when I walked in, my whole world changed, and it sounds phony or corny, but it fills up a lot, fills up a lot of your calendar. It fills up a lot of your energy, it’s a complicated complex place. I really enjoyed that piece of it. 

Kate Young: 

We can’t thank you enough for joining us and sharing your stories. Is there anything I missed that you want to share with our listeners? 

Mike Berghoff: 

I hope not. I would like to thank you with all the listeners, and I know you have a lot of them for being supportive, being positive, thoughtful, inquisitive, eager to let the spotlight shine on Purdue and be a great example to other universities, and I really appreciate that opportunity that I was able to help make that possible and it’ll carry on. 

Kate Young: 

Well, we can’t thank you enough again. It was a pleasure. 

Mike Berghoff: 

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for bringing me into the famous circles of this podcast gate. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. 

We are so thankful Mike joined us on the podcast. He is a legendary Boilermaker whose service at Purdue has impacted thousands of people throughout the years. By the way, Mike has quite a fun office at Lenex Steel, and you can check out a tour of his office wall adorned with some fun Boilermaker tributes on our podcast YouTube page, YouTube.com/@thisisPurdue. You can also watch Mike’s full video interview while you’re there. Finally, I have an exciting update for our This is Purdue listeners as we approach the holidays and very soon, 2025. This podcast will be moving to a new seasonal approach with fresh new episodes coming in early February for the spring 2025 semester season. We are featuring a major league baseball groundskeeper, an engineer who plays a huge role in the iconic fireworks shows at Disney, a scientist who uses AI to maximize the benefits of donated food and so many more incredible Boilermakers next year. 

Our team is also thrilled to settle into our very own brand new podcast studio in 2025, so keep an eye out for that on our YouTube channel. With all of these updates, it’s never been more important to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust us, you don’t want to miss any of these episodes. Happy Holidays, Boilermakers, and we’ll catch you in 2025. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger in collaboration with John Garcia, Thad Boone, Zach Mogensen and Alli Chaney. Our video production assistant is Dalani Young. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Teresa Walker and Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Caitlin Freville. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Kirsten Bauman. Additional Writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz. And our This is Purdue intern is Caroline Keim. Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcast. There you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe and leave us a review. And as always, boiler up.

Anthony Cawdron: 

This is Anthony Cawdron and you are listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking who are the next game-changers, difference-makers, ceiling-breakers, innovators, who are these Boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty and alumni taking small steps toward their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Your resume says a lot about you, but it’s only two-dimensional. I mean, the way people present themselves. If you look like you are looking after your own clothes and your shoes are shined, it’s likely to tell me that you’re going to look after someone else’s assets just as well. I do start out by saying a lot of this is common sense. The problem is that sense isn’t that common anymore. And it’s not rocket science, but it does help rocket scientists get better jobs. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Anthony Cawdron, Westwood Event Coordinator and Estate Manager. Westwood is the official home to Purdue’s presidents since the 1970s and currently President Mung Chiang and his family reside in this historic home. Now, if you’ve ever had the chance to go to Westwood for an event or dinner as either a student, alumni or staff or faculty member, you likely know Anthony, but just in case, here’s a quick bit of background on him before we dive into our conversation. Anthony has been at Purdue for 24 years now, but he’s originally from the UK. He’s lived all over the world and has even worked in a few European castles. And he also teaches a business etiquette course here at Purdue. So from job interviews to networking events to holiday parties, Anthony is sharing his best etiquette tips with us in this episode. 

Well, what’s a great way to spur small talk? What should you order for an interview over lunch? And what’s a polite way to leave a party? Hint, it is not the Irish exit, okay. Plus this conversation is the latest episode in our Boilermaker Bites series where we get to know Purdue Boilermakers while sharing a meal. And today, we’re chatting over some tea and other English goodies, which is especially fitting for Anthony’s background. And there’s really no better place for Anthony to tell us about his Boilermaker journey than within the walls of Westwood. To set the stage for you all briefly, Anthony and I had our interview in the smaller, more intimate dining room. It has a very classic traditional look with dark wood furniture. Anthony set the table with a gold pattern tablecloth and some black and gold China, including a teapot and matching teacups. The full video interview is also on our This is Purdue YouTube page if you’d like to check out this beautiful setup on there. 

Okay. So without further delay, let’s get into my conversation with Anthony. Oh, and a quick warning, this episode is likely to make you a bit hungry. Anthony, thank you so much for joining us today on This is Purdue. We’re thrilled to talk to you. This is the latest episode of our Boilermaker Bites series. So we have some lovely snacks and tea that are set up. Tell us a little bit about this before we dig into Westwood and your journey. Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. So we have the classic English cucumber sandwiches. So the cucumbers on thin sliced bread with no crusts. Then we have some profiteroles with some gold dust of course, and then some macarons with poppy seeds and key lime, and then we have some homemade scones. 

Kate Young: 

And you made them, right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I made them, yes I made them this morning. There’s a big debate on how you pronounce it. Some people say scones, some people say scones. I’m a scone side. And then when we eat them, there’s a big debate as to which you put on first, is the jam or the cream? And I’m jam first, then cream. So that’s just the way I do it, but a lot of people are wrong. 

Kate Young: 

Well, thank you so much for having us here. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’re welcome. Thank you for coming. 

Kate Young: 

And for making this lovely arrangement. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, absolutely. 

Kate Young: 

We’re at Westwood, this is the home to Purdue’s presidents. You’ve been here as the estate manager and event coordinator for over 20 years. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, 24 last week, or last month. 

Kate Young: 

Oh my goodness, congratulations. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

So you’re actually from the UK though. I’m sure our listeners can tell. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Sometimes. Everyone in England thinks I have an American accent. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, well we’re excited to get into your journey. Like I said, this property is so beautiful. I’m sure no day is the same for you. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No, which is actually one of the good things at 24 years is, if the days were all the same, you wouldn’t be able to do it. So I think that having variety and different events and different things going on and different people coming in and out and projects that don’t involve guests as well, all of that type of thing, keeping the outside looking good and redoing the driveways and all those type of things. 

Kate Young: 

Yes. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. Tell us about your journey to West Lafayette since we do know you’re from the UK. How does your experiences overseas kind of set you up for success here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah, so my father was in the Air Force, so I was a military brat, if you’d like it that way. So we moved a lot when I was growing up and we lived in Hong Kong, Singapore, then returned to England where I finished my high school and then did catering college for two years, and then went to work in Switzerland for a year and then came back and finished my degree at Oxford Brookes University. Then got into, almost by accident, working at Blenheim Palace that then turned into Sutton Place, being the butler there at 21, which was a little bit daunting. My first guest was Prince Philip, and so it was a little overwhelming at times, but did that and then went back into the restaurant industry. 

Then had a call from somebody who said, “Would you like to teach?” And so I moved to Switzerland again and taught in a hotel school there. And then had an opportunity to do a work abroad project with Iowa State ostensibly for a year. And so I left Switzerland intending to come back, and I haven’t gone back yet. So that was 34 years ago. So I think that overall travel and just being involved in international hotels and restaurants and seeing things from that perspective is really what started me interested in the events, business and catering type of thing. 

Kate Young: 

Anthony explains how his experiences working within the Blenheim Palace and Sutton Place in England ignited his passion for event planning and etiquette. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I think it gave me the opportunity to see exactly how things should be done, and just the attention to detail and how to look after people and working with people from higher ranks, if you like, and royalty and all those type of things. So I think it set me up quite well as being able to handle guests of every caliber and every background. 

Kate Young: 

As Anthony previously mentioned, he left Switzerland for a work abroad project in the US at Iowa States in Ames, Iowa. It was there that he met former Purdue president Martin Jischke, and his wife Patty. Anthony discusses how being at Iowa State and meeting this couple changed the trajectory of his career. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So I was there, as I said, for a year. And then during that year, I think for the first time people really tried to nurture me in continuing my education. And so it was suggested I take my master’s degree there at Iowa State, which I did. And then the Jischke’s arrived during that period and certainly were well aware that they needed somebody to be more involved with the event side of things because the previous president had not done as much entertaining as they wanted. And so they asked me to do a couple of things just to help out to start with, and then it developed into part-time, full-time, and then eight years working with them at Iowa State. And yes, it was a wonderful opportunity. 

Kate Young: 

So how did they ask you to come to Purdue? How did you finally end up here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

There was a big debate in Iowa, in Ames, as to whether I would or whether I wouldn’t go. And it was actually the Des Moines Register put more interest in my leaving than them. So it was was, will he go, won’t he go, will he go, won’t he go? And so I flew here with Patty and Martin on a couple of occasions to look around and see. And so it was a pleasant surprise and so I said, “Okay, I’ll come for six months and see how it is.” So I lived in the apartment above the garage for six months and got used to being here and decided I liked it and said I’d stay. And that was, as I said, 24 years ago. 

Kate Young: 

24 years ago. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

So tell us about your role at Westwood. I know every day is different, but what are some of your duties and responsibilities here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So basically keeping the house looking as good as it can. I have a team of wonderful housekeepers, Sheila and Tammy. And they do a fantastic job of making sure that the house is always ready because you never know when the president’s office may call and say if somebody’s coming over, and you can’t be just suddenly rushing around. So keeping the house ready, and then obviously with the events, working with the president’s office in making sure that we’re up-to-date on what’s happening, who’s coming, making name tags, making place cards. And then obviously working with the chef probably once a week to see what events we have coming up. There are weeks when we have fewer events, and then there are weeks where we have lots of different things. 

Kate Young: 

Every night. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. And no, also during the day. I’d say that Mitch used to entertain more at breakfast time because there was no family and people getting to school and things like that. So we did more entertaining in the mornings with him. But as I said, the variety is what keeps it interesting. And obviously the seasons and the things inside outside the house as well. 

Kate Young: 

What is one of your earliest memories of Westwood? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I think the first time when, as I said, Patty and I traveled with Martin to come to see what West Lafayette was like, and I remember driving through the gates. Iowa State’s president’s house is like many Big 10 schools in campus, and we had parking for about five cars in the driveway. And I drove in here and you’ve got almost a mile of drive. And so just the setting was very, very different from what we were used to and just a sort of a sense of a big house. And then seeing the spaces that we had to work with was wonderful because again, the Iowa State house was Victorian, and so it wasn’t necessarily designed or easy to use as Westwood is. Westwood is very versatile as we’ve hosted events for eight people or 250 people. So it’s a lot of things like that. Can I pour you some tea? 

Kate Young: 

Yes. Oh my gosh, please do. And we have to try one of the homemade scones. Did I say it right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You did. And so this teapot is actually from China that was given to the house back in the 1990s, and we have some pieces, unfortunately it’s aging and so it does need some care and it’s not always leaking, but this one is not. So good, so far. 

Kate Young: 

It’s beautiful. Now, do you enjoy milk with your tea? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I do take milk in my tea. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. I do too. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And we’re doing it the right way, because if you put milk in first, then that’s very- 

Kate Young: 

Good to know. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And that’s where the phrase MIF comes from. M-I-F, milk in first. And people who put milk in first are second class. 

Kate Young: 

We’re learning all types of things on this podcast. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

All right, I’ll give you a sandwich. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you so much. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’re very welcome. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, so fast-forward, President Jischke leaves in 2007. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

What made you want to stay here at Purdue? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And we knew that Dr. Jischke was going to retire in 2007, so that was all expected. And then when Dr. Cordova and Chris Foster came here on a sort of a sightseeing trip visit, I was obviously here and was cooking breakfast for them, and then they sort of said, “Will you stay?” And I said, again, “Yes, we’ll give it a try.” And so it’s sort of become a hand-me-down thing. I think you get the house, you get him too. 

Kate Young: 

I think they’re thrilled to have you though with the house. So what has it been like for you to experience the Midwest? Back when you lived in the UK, could you ever picture yourself where you are now? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No, I really didn’t. And when I was in Switzerland, some of my students there said, “You’ll absolutely hate it. You won’t fit in. It would be awful and you won’t like it and you’ll be back in… You won’t even stay a year.” So I was somewhat not worried, but trepidation I’d say, because I called a bank in London and said, “Can I set up an account in America?” And they went, “Ooh, not sure. Where are you going to live?” And I said, “Iowa.” They said, “Ooh.” They said, “We think there’s a bank in Des Moines.” And I thought, well, I have to drive 20 miles to a bank. That’s not the worst thing in the world. And then you arrive in Ames and there are multi-story hotels, a huge stadium and massive, massive buildings. You think, we’ll be okay. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

What are a few of your most significant memories from your 24 years here? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Gosh, I think entertaining some… We’ve had three Secretaries of State come to dinner, Madeleine Albright, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice. They’ve been wonderful. The Secretary of the Navy, so I think it’s guests. Laura Bush, when the convocation happened for her and the two girls. So that was interesting, especially the time constraints placed on us for that event were amazing because they wanted a three-course meal in 37 minutes. 

Kate Young: 

Oh my goodness. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So it was very, very tight timing. But we pulled it off and everyone went away happy. But I think, so it’s the guests and the different personalities of people. And the nice thing about Westwood is that it is, as many people call it, the front door to the university. And so we have students, we host the Reamer Club, come on an annual tour, the freshman Reamers, and so they come on a tour of the house so that they know when they drive the train around what is behind those doors, if people ask. And then we have faculty. So we have a faculty event, we have deans tonight, we have faculty events most months. So it’s a nice use of the house for people who are on campus and then obviously alums coming back, and we entertain many, many people. So I think that variety is great. 

Kate Young: 

We’ve discussed, you’ve lived through several presidents here. Do you have any fun behind-the-scenes stories, anything that would surprise our listeners maybe? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’ll have to wait for the book. No, no. I think things just happen, and in 24 years it drifts away. But I suppose the cats coming in by mistake is interesting, that suddenly somebody comes to me and says, “Here’s a cat.” Because they live outside and keep our mouse population down. But occasionally, they managed to sneak in just because when we had a dog. So that was also a challenge at times. 

Kate Young: 

Was he or she in the way? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

She. No, she was never in the way, but she would sometimes escape from the kitchen and be in places that she wasn’t supposed to be. And also like to get out and go and find the dirtiest muddiest places to roll, as dogs do. I’m trying to think of anything else. Obviously, the gates have been an issue when power goes out. I’d get phone calls from the president saying, “I’m stuck outside the gate.” So I’d have to drive over and climb the gate in the rain and release the hydraulics on the gates and open the gates so that they could come in. One time we had a power outage and the president at the time was trying to pack for a trip, and so we had to get the Purdue fire department to bring one of their fire engines, or the fire trucks, right? I’m not in England anymore. A fire truck up here and plug it in so that they ran their generator so we could have a light in the packing area so that they could pack the suitcases. 

Kate Young: 

Wow. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Other than that, I don’t think we’ve… We’ve managed to keep it pretty sane. 

Kate Young: 

How have you seen this iconic home change over the years? We were chatting before this and there’s been all types of renovations. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah, so the house has morphed from a two-bedroom cottage when it was built in 1934 into the 17,000 square feet that it is now. When we came in 2000, the house footprint was pretty much as it is. And so we’ve made some tweaks, we’ve changed some things. We added a different porch last summer. So we’ve made alterations. The house I think is pretty much at its maximum footprint now. There’s really not much more room for anything, but it works well. And what was put in, especially with the big addition the Beering’s did, has made the house incredibly functional. The catering kitchen and the big dining room that we can seat 104 in if we have to, it’s tight, but we can get in. And so it is a very workable house. So I think that’s really the biggest change. And people, when they drive up, they don’t realize just how much house there is at the back really. 

Kate Young: 

It’s so stately and beautiful, but yes, you don’t really see the… When you haven’t been inside before, you haven’t seen the depth of the house. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

The day that our podcast team had the pleasure of visiting Anthony at Westwood, he and his team were setting up for a Purdue Dean’s dinner that evening. I asked Anthony what a typical day of managing Westwood looks like when planning for an event like this? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

We usually have a fair amount of notice about when these events are happening. So obviously we know what the room’s going to look like. Depending on the table, we’ll see the table on odd occasion. But the table is fairly versatile in that we can seat up to 22 at one table, and the president seems to like that feel of everyone being at one table. 

Kate Young: 

More intimate. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Because once you separate people, and if the first lady is there, she can host one table and he can host another, but it still separates the guests. So we’ve done a lot more events with the big, long table. And I will already have talked to chef and we’ve planned a menu, and we do try and feature as much Indiana food as possible just because people like it. And we’re using the student farms produce at the moment as well. So we’ve already planned the menu. So then prior to that, I will give our two housekeepers, as I said, Tammy and Sheila, a list of what China we’re using. We have five different sets of China, so depending on the time of day and maybe the type of guests that are coming, we make a choice of which China pattern we’re going to use. And so they’ll get that ready for me, and then I’ll put up the tables, put out the chairs, and then start laying tables. And typically, if we have a big event, then I’ll have set the tables up the day before just to… 

And if we’ve got flowers to be done, I’ll try and get those done and put in the cooler ahead of time. Another nice thing about Westwood is it does have a lot of garden space. And so we try, in the spring, when we’re planting the gardens, we try and have things that can be cut flowers and Patty Jischke was instrumental in starting the cut flower idea so that we can harvest a lot from the gardens as long as we can. And so getting the flowers ready and then having everything on the tables. And then our staff arrive usually about an hour prior to the event. By that time, we’ve probably got name tags out, I’ve done place cards. So it’s that arrangement, that finalizing, and then getting the final bits out so the glass is ready for the arrival drinks. And then always being ready for changes. 

Kate Young: 

Yes, pivoting? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. Yes. That is the key to this game. 

Kate Young: 

So speaking of that, a lot of our listeners and viewers probably don’t know all of the behind the scenes details that go into event planning. It’s a lot more than one might think. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

What are some things that you’ve learned over the years when it comes to event planning and facing some challenges or having to make those pivots? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You definitely get to have a Plan B, a Plan C, and hopefully never have to use it, but a Plan D just in case. So there’s always that backup, and being ready for those changes even if you don’t want them to happen. It’s just, you know that these things are going to take place. So I think that’s always the key, is trying to predict the unlikeliness of things. And that does sometimes get to be a challenge when we’re doing the one long table because it fits 22, not 23. So if a 23rd guest comes, we have a real problem. 

We have had issues where the room has been full, and so we’ve had to suddenly grab a small table from another area in the house and just throw some food and some silverware at it and go, “There we go.” But I think anticipating what might happen, so we’ve always got extra food, we’ve always got an extra place setting sitting somewhere so that it’s, as fast as we can, to get it in. People’s diets, halfway through a meal, they become vegetarian. So you, “Oh, all right, we’re going with that… All right. Yes, that’ll be fine.” So just adapting. And when I teach my classes, I always say two of the key elements to being good is adaptability and flexibility. You’ve got to read the situation, work out what’s going to make it happen, and then be ready for something not happening right. 

Kate Young: 

Beyond working at Westwood, Anthony also teaches a business etiquette course at Purdue in the White Lodging-J.W. Marriott, Jr. School of Hospitality and Tourism Management within the College of Health and Human Sciences. I asked him more about this course and what role he believes etiquette plays in modern society. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

As I got into it, when I was at Iowa State, a fraternity approached me and asked me if I would go in and do a presentation for a fraternity. And I thought it’s a one-off. And I would say that over 24, well now 34 years, of doing these, how many thousand times I’ve actually given the presentation. So it’s still popular, I still travel. I was in New Orleans in August, giving it to a fraternity conference there. I’m speaking next week and the week after to various agronomy classes. So that’s also good. But I think it’s something that people realize they should need. Many people may have been told by an aunt or a grandmother at some point, “Do this, do this.” And they go, “Yeah, whatever.” And then they suddenly realized that perhaps that was useful and that they might find it helpful. 

My classes are usually full, which is great. So we have about 60, 65 students every semester. This is an eight-week class. And I do start out by saying, “A lot of this is common sense. The problem is that sense isn’t that common anymore.” And it’s not rocket science, but it does help rocket scientists get better jobs. I think what we’re trying to do is make the students as comfortable as they could be in an environment that they’re not necessarily used to. And being with your peers all the time and eating in the dining court, eating quickly, not worrying about things. And then suddenly you’re placed in this situation where you do have silver, you do have plates, you do have glasses, and you’re being watched. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

That’s the deal. Your resume says a lot about you, but it’s only but it’s only two-dimensional. When you walk in the door and I sit you down and I watch you eat, I think, I don’t think this is going to work. That’s why we do it. And I’m pleased that professors do ask me to go to the classes and give a presentation. I mean, what they remember of it is entirely up to them. I’ve done it for the ROTC, and that one is a challenge in and of itself because they meet at six o’clock in the morning. So doing a presentation for people in uniform at six in the morning is interesting. 

Kate Young: 

Tell us some of these tips that you’re telling the students when it comes to networking, interviews over a meal. That’s something I have always struggled with. I don’t necessarily want to be eating and worrying if I have something on my face or eating too slow, eating too fast, right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Right. And that is the challenge, and that’s why they put them into that position, is they want to see, can you deal with this? And so one of the key things I say is, “When you go to a meal, if it’s somewhere that you’re not familiar with, ask people what they recommend.” And you can gain from that information whether or not these people even have an appetizer course. So if they don’t recommend any appetizers, I probably won’t be able to order an appetizer. Choosing foods that you can eat without using your hands, choosing foods that you can eat easily while still maintaining a conversation. So ordering something because you’re trying to show off or think, oh yes, I’ll take advantage of this menu because somebody else is paying, is generally going to backfire on you. So making wise choices at the table, keeping pace with the rest of the table. 

And I do tell people, if they’re hosting and the guest of honor is being bombarded with questions, it is their job to step in and say, “Let’s have our guest eat a little bit and somebody else talk about their research project or what they’re going to be doing this coming semester.” Whatever it happens to be, so that there’s an opportunity for people to catch up. The other thing is to be aware of other people’s needs. A lot of people are focused on their own little space. We do live in a selfish world and it’s all about me, so they don’t think about other people. So passing things that are in front of them, seeing that somebody needs something, you’ve got a cup of coffee, the cream and sugar’s next to me, “Would you like some cream and sugar? Could I pass this to you?” Or just keeping an eye on what’s going around. 

I mean, they may be the guest, but if they’re going to be hired by that company and they have taken an interest and said, “Could we get you some more water? Would you like another bread roll?” All of those types of things show me that you are looking outside your own comfort zone and you are willing to take care of other people. So if I do hire you, I won’t have any worries about sending you to a restaurant with our guests because I know that you can do it. Balancing conversation and eating, taking time to actually take the food and then answer the question. Don’t try and do both. We have a lot of weaponizing of silverware at the moment, making it look pleasant for other people. And I tell students, “Put yourself in front of a camera and watch yourself eat. And if you don’t like it, this is why you’re sitting in front of a camera.” 

Kate Young: 

Humbling. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. So just little details like that because it can come down to the fact you are a better ambassador for yourself at the table. And that may be the key to me saying, “You get the job, you don’t.” 

Kate Young: 

I love that. It’s like if you’re attending to people’s needs, you’re going to be a team player. You’re going to care for your coworkers. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Similarly, I mean the way people present themselves, if you look like you are looking after your own clothes and your shoes are shined, it’s likely to tell me that you’re going to look after someone else’s assets just as well. So even though your suit may not be the newest, if it’s taken care of and it looks good, then it says to me, you can take care of things. Again, little details like that, shaking hands, making eye contact when you talk to people, speaking clearly. Especially for introductions, people are so nervous they speak so quickly. And then you have to repeat it and say, really, slow it down, slow it down. 

Kate Young: 

Slow it down. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And if you have to, say it again, it’s fine. Or ask somebody their name again, type of thing. So we’re trying to make them as comfortable as possible and feel like their education is the starting point, but what they make out of their lives is something that they have to do and have a wide range of topics to talk about. Because if all you can talk about is your school, it’s fine. But there’s a bigger world out there. 

And I also tell people to do some research before you go. If your interview’s in Seattle, get the Seattle paper off the internet, read it, find out what’s going on so that when you go there, you can talk to people who live in Seattle about things that are happening in Seattle. They feel that you have tried to integrate yourself already rather than just assuming that everything is… And I ask my students in class, “Can you name me the mayor of Lafayette?” “No.” Can you name me the mayor of West Lafayette?” “No.” I say, “You’ve lived here four years. You have to be able to know it, because if you go to something here and you can’t do that, people are going to think you really are so distanced from reality.” 

Kate Young: 

Have you ever had students, I’m sure you have, come back to you and say, “I was in a really tricky interview”? Or, “Hey, I was at this networking event and I thought back to your class and what you told us.” 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I’d say that the thing that I’ve had most people comment on after the fact is the ability to hold a glass, a plate, and a fork in one hand. So you’ve got your plate, your glass, and your fork, and so your right hand is still free to shake hands and you are able to deal with all of the food and drink in one hand, and you look sophisticated. 

Kate Young: 

Polished doing it. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And you’re polished. And you can multitask, and you didn’t have to write it on your resume. But I’ve had several students come back to me and say, “I was the only one who could do it.” Or, “I felt so comfortable because I knew what I was supposed to do, whereas everyone else was juggling things.” So yeah, so that one’s probably the one that I get the most. So would you like one of these scones now? 

Kate Young: 

Yes. I’m so excited because I don’t think I’ve ever tried one with this cream. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

So tell us. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So English scones typically, and you always split them, you never cut them. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And usually you have red jam, we call it jam, you call it jelly. We call it jam. So you take some jam and put it onto your plate. Come off. And then you have some cream. And in England, you’ll probably find it’s clotted cream, which is hard to find here, which is a heated cream. So it’s a little bit more weighty and fat content. Pass that over to you. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. Okay, so you’re not taking the knife and directly putting it on I’ve noticed. Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No. Sometimes when we do reception events here, chef makes wonderful scones. We will actually split them and spread them so that people don’t have to work with that. Because again, when you’re designing food for large groups, you have to have things that are easy to eat, quick and easy to pick up. So then the key is to take a little bit of jam and put it on about a bite-size piece of the scone. 

Kate Young: 

So not the whole thing? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

No. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So complicated being English. And then you put some cream on the top. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. And we did jam first, like you said. Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Some people will even put butter first, then jam, then cream. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a lot. The cream is insanely delicious. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Good. 

Kate Young: 

And so is the scone. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Whipped this morning. 

Kate Young: 

Oh my goodness. Okay. Now see how I was taking both hands? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

You’ll see people do that as sometimes… That’s another thing I tell students is, when I go around the class at the beginning of the semester, I ask them what their worst habit is. 75% of them say procrastination, which I can’t do anything about. 

Kate Young: 

Sounds like a college student. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And then the next one is fidgeting, because they’re always playing with things that probably from growing up, they were always playing with a phone or a game or something. So sometimes that has now secured both of my hands and I’m not doing anything silly with them. Whereas, if I have one and I’m free, people start to play with things or they fiddle or they play with their hair, or they chew their nails. 

Kate Young: 

Which, in a job interview, it’s just such a turn-off. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So it’s distracting. So sometimes adding that extra hand just gives your hand something to do. But generally, you would only hold with one. And stirring too, stir quietly. 

Kate Young: 

In October, Anthony received the Special Boilermaker Award, which honors members of the Purdue faculty or staff who have contributed significantly to the improvement of the quality of life or the betterment of the educational experience for Purdue students. Anthony shares what this award means to him. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

It was a very special moment, and it was quite a surprise being told I had it because I was at a meeting in Hovde and we were leaving the meeting and Teresa Cadwallader, who is Mung’s executive assistant said, “Oh, could you just pop in here?” And I thought, what is this? And so she opened the door, and ta-da. And so that was a big surprise. And then obviously going down onto the field last, or to receive it, was a very special honor. It was a wonderful honor. And obviously my co-recipients, we had a great time. And so it was very, very special. 

I guess it’s… I don’t know whether there’s a bingo card of things that if you’re at Purdue this long, you get one of these. And if you get this long, you get one of these. So I was in Reamer, I was in Iron Key, Mortar Board, Old Master, so my bingo card’s getting full. But yes, no, it was a very nice honor, very nice. And I’ve had many, many messages, and 450 messages on Facebook after it was Eric Barker, Dean Eric Barker, took some really nice pictures and so they were on Facebook, so a lot of people responded to that. And then I had people text me from who were in the Buchanan Club saying, “Oh yep, three of us up here are also Boilermaker Award recipients in the past, and we’re here cheering for you and thanks for joining our ranks, if you like.” So it was very, very nice. 

Kate Young: 

I can tell Purdue means a lot to you. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes, it does. 

Kate Young: 

Why have you stayed here this many years? Why? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I sometimes ask myself the same question. I don’t always give myself the same answer. It has worked out really well. As I say, I started out expecting to be in the US for a year, and that turned into 34. I do love the variety of the US, obviously we are here in the Midwest and we have our wonderful seasonal changes, which I really do enjoy. I think it’s nice to still have winter. Having lived in Switzerland and being in the snow for three or four months a year, you miss things like that if you were in a warmer state. So I really do like the seasonal changes, and particularly I enjoy gardening and things outside, so it’s nice to see and to be able to make changes and not that the landscape is going to be the same day-in, day-out as if you were in some other states to the west maybe. So it’s nice having that variety. 

The ability to travel relatively easily. I do miss public transport, I do miss European trains, but you get around here, but it is an easy place to move from and to go and see different parts of the country and travel. So I think the Midwest is, and many people who travel from here after they graduate, go and live in metropolitan areas, but then eventually return to the Midwest because they say it’s just a better place to live and to bring up families and things like that. So people are very warm. It’s a very accepting and very welcoming community. And I think that that’s why I ended up staying at Iowa State is that people probably said, “We’re interested in making you do something different and getting on with the master’s degree and then this.” 

So that also goes back to one of the things I tell students is that, “Yes, your degree may be in biomechanical engineering or whatever it happens, biomedical engineering. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you are going to stay in that field. And if something comes along that says to you, ‘That sounds interesting, let me try that.'” And I say, “At 22, you have nothing to lose. If you don’t like it, great, you can try something else.” And you can, at that point, probably still fit all your belongings into one vehicle. So if you need to travel, you can do it now because as life gets more complicated- 

Kate Young: 

You’re tied down more. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… it’s a lot harder to make those changes. And I think when I first took my first job at Blenheim Palace, I didn’t know that that would lead to this. I mean, it was a one-off, three-week job for the Christmas holidays with the Duke and Duchess, and then, “Would you come back full-time?” “Yes. Why not?” And then everything just sort of transitions. So you can never actually predict what’s going to happen next. And so I think I’ve enjoyed the fact that, having worked for four presidents, each one comes with a different background, different sets of needs, different requirements. So that has, in a way, I haven’t really worked here for 24 years, I’ve worked here for two and a half and I’ve worked here for 10 and I’ve worked here for five and I worked here for seven, with each of the four different presidents. So that’s I think has sort of kept things fresh. To have stayed in one place, one person, one job, routine might not have been the case. 

I’m not saying that people have tried to take me away from here. Purdue may be known as the Cradle of Quarterbacks, but it’s also the Cradle of Presidents, in that we’ve had three provosts go on to be wonderful presidents of big schools. Sally Mason, Randy Woodson and Tim Sands have all made wonderful presidents in their own right. And all three have asked me to go with them. 

Kate Young: 

There’s a behind-the-scenes story. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah. 

Kate Young: 

What does this Boilermaker community, and being part of it, mean to you? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

I do really like living in Lafayette, West Lafayette. I live downtown, and when friends come to visit from England particularly, we’ll walk around downtown or go to a restaurant. People know you, they come up to you, they recognize you, they talk to you. I’ll sit on my porch and people will say hello or stop and chat on the porch. And so it has a very nice feel that you don’t always get in other countries because people are either too busy or they feel that they can’t talk to people because they don’t know them yet or they’re not familiar with them. So there’s a lot to the Midwestern warmth and welcoming feel. 

And as you know, and I know, when we travel to different states, it’s not always the same. You feel like an outsider in some states. So the community itself is wonderful. Made lots and lots of friends, either from guests coming here or from working relationships. And then alumni and donors and people and having traveled with Purdue as well, that’s another really good way of establishing a bond of friendship with people that you may not normally have had a chance to meet. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. With the holiday season in full swing, we couldn’t let Anthony go without asking some burning questions when it comes to etiquette. So for our listeners who may be preparing for holiday events, whether you’re hosting or attending as a guest, Anthony shares his top advice, including avoiding the rather popular Irish exit strategy. Are you guilty of doing this a time or two? I know I am. Here’s Anthony. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

A little more tea? 

Kate Young: 

Yes, actually. It’s delicious, thank you. So for people hosting events or maybe attending events, what is a small, thoughtful gift that you could give to the host of a dinner party, let’s say? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. And the whole notion of giving gifts is changing. Gift-giving, certainly in the corporate world, is now almost frowned upon because it’s a difficult gray area. One thing to remember is that the host has asked you there because they want you there, they didn’t necessarily want you to bring anything. So there was, I think in the past, almost an obligation that people felt that, I have to take a gift. And that’s not the case. If you feel like taking something, that’s fine. The host will appreciate it, but don’t feel that you can’t go empty-handed. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

The other thing to think about is something, particularly if the host is greeting you and you hand them this, then they’ve got to deal with it. So giving them something that they can easily say, “Oh, that’s lovely, thank you.” And put it down and then it’s out… They don’t have to… So when people bring flowers, it’s very, very pleasant, it’s very nice. But if they’re not already arranged or in some container, then, oh, I’ve got to deal with these now, let me put them down. Or, they should probably go in water, oh, oh, oh, oh. And if you’ve got someone at your event coordinator standing right there, yes you can probably hand off a gift, but it makes it awkward for people. So particularly around the holidays, I think a small ornament or a handmade ornament or if… There are lots of little arts and crafts shops here in town that sell small gestures, those are nice. Commemorative ornaments are nice. Homemade food, if you’re somebody who’s very good at making chocolates or something like that, just a little gesture. 

If you are going to take flowers, as I say, take them already in a vase or in something that the host doesn’t have to then deal with them immediately, that they can just be placed. And also, people have probably done their own decorating. They’ve probably already got flowers on the table, they’ve probably already got most of that. So unless you know them very well and you’re just taking something that you know will fit in with the theme or the decor, it can be a little bit of a juxtaposition. A lot of people take bottles of wine. 

Kate Young: 

Yes, I’ve done that. How do you feel about that? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Which is fine. That’s fine. The expectation is that you take the bottle of wine and it’s really a gift, don’t expect to drink it. 

Kate Young: 

Right. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

If you have particular wine, so if we were planning a dinner party and you were hooking and I said, “Let me bring the wine.” I would ask you what you’re making, and then I would bring a wine that was appropriate and we would both know ahead of time, I would bring the wine in a way that it was ready to be served by you, but you already knew about it. So if I bring a bottle of wine and I expect you to drink or to serve it and it doesn’t go with the food that you planned or you’ve already planned your wines, again, that can be a little awkward. So if you bring it just as a gift, perfectly fine. But don’t, as I say, expect to drink it. And I’ve seen some people awkwardly, if it hasn’t been served, take it away with them at the end. 

Kate Young: 

What? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, that’s… 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Well, they didn’t drink it, so I’ll take it back. Oh, all right. 

Kate Young: 

I think it’s awkward when they open it up and have it at this event. I was like, “Oh no, that was a gift for you.” But if they want to open it… 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. And again, I think it requires you, as a guest, if we knew each other well enough and I’d been to your house several times, I’d say, “Oh, let me bring some of the wine that we had last time.” Or, “I know that you really like this Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand, let me bring some.” If you choose to serve it, entirely your choice. But if you don’t use it, then it’s yours for the rest. You keep it. 

Kate Young: 

And you do not take it home. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

And sometimes a host gifts, if they’re wrapped, don’t expect that the host is going to unwrap it then. 

Kate Young: 

Oh, okay, that’s a good tip. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So sometimes if it is a little ornament, just bringing it unadorned so that they can see it immediately so that they don’t have to then unwrap it and then thank you. They can say, “Oh, that’s pretty, that’s lovely. I’ll put it on the tree.” Something like that. 

Kate Young: 

Right, because they have enough going on. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yeah, so you don’t want to confuse things. And that’s why we have at weddings and big events, a table for gifts that you can just put them on, and a basket for cards if people bring them, there’s no absolute necessity to physically hand it to me and then you can retrieve them and then thank people later. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, small talk. Some people hate it, some people are gifted at it. What are some small talk dinner conversation starters? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Right. So again, part of it, doing your homework. You don’t have to be the NSA, but you can do a little bit of background. The other thing that people don’t do particularly well is actively listen. So while a conversation is going on, you may have said something that didn’t then get developed into a further conversation, but I picked it up. And so then when you and I are sitting somewhere, I say, “Didn’t I hear that you just say that you were going to The Bahamas for Christmas? Oh, that’ll be nice.” Or, “Did you just come back from the Maldives?” And anytime that you can ask people things that make them want to talk is a good way because it’s a conversation. It’s not me lecturing, it’s you listening and then adding in and back and forth. 

So having actively listened or found out some details or that you just got a new puppy or that I saw in the newspaper that you just received the Special Boilermaker Award or you just became small business of the year. All of those things I have stored that I can bring out and use if I need to. We’ve talked a lot about the change of seasons, and is fall your favorite season? And it’s giving people an open-ended question allows them to express, and then it should also then lead to further topics of things that we can talk about. Because as I listen, I can hear that you’re someone who loves fall, “Have you been to Maine or the East Coast?” “Oh, actually we’re planning that next year.” “Oh, well how are you going to do it, by train or are you going on a cruise?” Blah, blah, blah. 

And so it generates itself, but it needs someone to start the ball rolling. And people are afraid to just start a conversation because they don’t know. It sounds mundane, but the weather is a great way to start. “Did you have trouble getting here? I saw that it was stormy in Colorado? How was your journey?” And people have then the incentive to give more information and make you feel that this is a conversation. And I sometimes equate it to a tennis match. 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

In that your first topic is the serve, and you send it over the net and you hope that someone on the other side of the net will hit it back, and then you hit it back and it’s back and forth, back and forth. And we’re adding to this conversation. We’ve all unfortunately been in a position where we start a conversation and people will not. And it’s, okay, try again. Let’s go this way. And we’re going to try that, and if that one didn’t work, all right, anyone else have anything interesting? So sometimes it is difficult and some people just don’t want to engage in that. 

But small talk is really important because small talk leads you to big talk. The ability, and the students on interviews, when they go, I say, “You won’t be spending all the time with the interviewer, you’ll be spending time with assistants, with other departments, other areas, and you have to be nice to all these people and you have to talk to them. When you’re transitioning from this office to the HR department, we’re walking, you have to be talking. You can’t just leave it blank. Even though this person may not be the person who is interviewing me, I’m going to ask them afterwards.” And we’ve all seen Undercover Boss. I tell them that. I say, “The person that you go in to see who’s sitting behind a desk isn’t necessarily the person that you think it is. 

Kate Young: 

Or being rude to a waiter or receptionist, right? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Especially at the CEO level, a lot of times when the dinner interview, the people are looking to see how you treat service. And if you treat them well, there’s a very good chance that you’ll treat employees lower down the totem pole than you well. 

Kate Young: 

Okay, the Irish exit. Are you familiar, the Irish goodbye maybe? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

That’s not really a goodbye, you just disappear? 

Kate Young: 

Yes, you just simply disappear. What is a polite way to… Maybe the host is busy talking to someone else. Maybe you just want to get out of there as fast as possible. What’s a polite way to leave a party? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Particularly a stand-up event or a reception style event where it is a lot of mix and mingle, drift and round, and you may have commitments to other things at different times. The key is to try and make sure that your host knew you came. So making it not necessarily a beeline for them, but making sure that when you arrive, you see your hosts quickly so that they’re aware that you did come. Even if you’re not going to stay very long, then do a circuit through the room as best you can, and then always try, even if the host is talking to someone else as you have to leave, try and make eye contact. Just something that signals that they are again aware of the fact that you have left rather than, “Oh, I don’t know where she went, I’m not sure. She was here just now.” 

If you can, just try and make, even if you have to slip away early, just try and make some contact with the host to say, “This has been wonderful, but I do have to dash. Let’s catch up next week.” Or something like that, if you can. Or, “Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to say, great party, thanks for having me. We’ll see you at the theater on Saturday or something like that.” It makes them feel that it was a good idea to have you at the event, even though you couldn’t stay for the full length. 

Kate Young: 

And you appreciated the invite. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Mm-hmm, you made an impression. So as I say, “Try and meet them when you first get there and try and at least acknowledge the fact that you’ve had a good time and you’re heading out now.” 

Kate Young: 

To wrap it up, the biggest dos and don’ts, what’s like a top, do this to impress people at an event and a top, do not do this at an event? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Well, you shouldn’t necessarily be just out to impress people. You should be doing things well, but not necessarily standing out- 

Kate Young: 

Like showboating? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

… by showing off. 

Kate Young: 

Okay. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

So keep it subtle, keep it light. I think we do find people who dominate the table. And I do tell people when you’re planning an event, think of the personalities that you’ve got. Because if you’ve got a strong personality and you are hosting and we’re doing a long table rather than a round table as we’re at today, but if you have a long table and you’ve put somebody with a strong personality halfway down the table, that person will take over. And you have no way of controlling that. If you have a strong personality, seat them next to you because you can physically rein them in if you have to because they’re right there. So again, that’s a good way of working out where you’re going to place people and who would be a good conversation group. Do these people have something in common? So it does that. 

Try not to dominate. If you realize that I’ve done all the talking or nobody’s had a chance to eat, again, try not to do that. Also, good manners can spoil good food. So waiting or listening to somebody talk and the food’s there, stop somebody, don’t just let the food spoil. And that’s also brings up the buffet rule. That if you go to a buffet, it’s very likely that the rest of the people at the table are not immediately behind you in line. And so when you get to the table, if there are three of you or more, you can start eating because those three people may not even arrive. Or those two seats may be empty or unoccupied and you’ve been sitting there waiting for them to fill and your food is spoiling. So I always encourage people to use the buffet rule, three or more, start. 

Chewing with your mouth open. I don’t need to see your food. Eating noisily, sometimes it’s overwhelming. All right. Yes. And these people are automatically getting a no for the next invitation list because I can’t, you’re just not going to have people watch that again. Overindulging. There may be very nice things offered to you, but you don’t have to necessarily take them all. And one thing I do tell students about events is that because when you arrive, it’s likely hospitality is going to be offered quite quickly. Your choice of whether to take it then or not. You are perfectly able to walk away and say, “I’ll be right back. Let me do some introductions.” Because yes, you might be able to hold a plate and a glass in one hand, but if you don’t have to, don’t do it. So go around, make some introductions, and then circle back and get your drink, circle back and get some food. And so again, sometimes that is a test to see whether people have the ability to say, “No, I think I’ll wait.” 

Using the buffet as your own private dining space. Take some food and move away. If there’s something on the buffet you don’t like, don’t put it back. Appetizers are not easy to eat standing up. We, in hospitality, love to watch people fail. That’s why we design food like that. Things will crumble. So look at the food and say, “Can I deal with that?” 

Kate Young: 

That’s exactly what I do at weddings. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. 

Kate Young: 

Can I eat this? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Neatly, cleanly, easily. Yes? Go. No? I think I’ll pass. Take two bites. A whole egg roll is offered to you. Yes, it would fit in in one go. Should it? No. Again, just dipping, one dip, one dip only. Not turning the carrot stick over and dipping the other end in. Taking things to a plate, to a vessel, rather than just eating them out of the bowl. And sometimes events aren’t set up in the way that makes that easy that you’ve got to find the plates or the plates and the napkins are in the wrong place and you really want to get a plate, go down and then at the last minute pick up a napkin and a piece of silverware because you don’t need that for walking through the buffet. Just again, I think a lot of it is learned, but unfortunately we don’t see the opportunities to learn anymore. 

I mean, I will set a table with a tablecloth and people suddenly, “Ah, it’s so formal.” Because they’re just not to seeing tablecloths anymore. Sitting down before everyone else arrives, not good, because then anyone else who arrives at the table, even if they’re on time, they feel like they’re late. So in a restaurant situation, you are hosting, you’re waiting in the lobby, try and wait for all your guests in the lobby before you go to the table, even though the restaurant wants you to sit down straight away. If I arrive at 12:30, which is when I’m supposed to be there, and you’re already at the table, and I’m the last there, I say, “Oh, am I late?’ Because it’s a psychological feeling that I didn’t make the right call. And if somebody does arrive late, get up and greet them and help them to their chair. It makes them, again, feel less conscious, self-conscious, about being late. 

Kate Young: 

This has been fascinating. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you. Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

Is there anything I missed? Is there anything else that you want to tell our listeners and viewers? 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Gosh, no. Listen, learn, and copying in school, not a good thing. Somebody does something outside of school that looks good, do exactly the same thing. You can learn a lot by watching people. Oh, and when you split a check evenly, don’t argue. No divisions of, “Well, you had two glasses of wine, so you… Oh, plus tax.” And then- 

Kate Young: 

That’s so uncomfortable. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Yes. You see people having this wonderful meal, great conversation, and then they’re arguing about $26 at the end. It’s like, really? That’s all I’m going to remember when I walk out, is that you were trying to short me for $2. Not worth it. 

Kate Young: 

That’s a great tip to end on. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

Thank you very much. 

Kate Young: 

Thank you. Oh, it’s been a pleasure. 

Anthony Cawdron: 

It’s been wonderful. Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

I’m sure you all learned at least one tip from Anthony throughout this interview. I know I did. We’re so thankful Anthony joined us on the podcast. He has such an interesting background and his love for this Boilermaker community truly shines. If you haven’t been to Westwood, or maybe it’s been years since you’ve been in there, you can check out this beautiful home on our podcast YouTube page, YouTube.com/@thisisPurdue. We have some incredible bonus content with Anthony, he discusses the importance of name tag etiquette, his biggest pet peeve when it comes to modern day etiquette, and so much more. And you can also watch Anthony’s full video interview in the Westwood dining room, complete with tea, scones and sandwiches while you’re there. Plus, be sure to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts, so you never miss an episode. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger in collaboration with Jon Garcia and Zach Mogensen. Our video production assistant is Dalani Young. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Teresa Walker and Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Caitlyn Freville. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Kirsten Bauman. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz. And our This is Purdue intern is Caroline Kime. Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcasts. There, you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe and leave us a review. And as always, Boiler up. 

Karen Plaut: 

This is Karen Plaut, and you are listening to This is Purdue. 

Kate Young: 

Hi, I’m Kate Young and you are listening to This is Purdue, the official podcast for Purdue University. As a Purdue alum and Indiana native, I know firsthand about the family of students and professors who are in it together, persistently pursuing and relentlessly rethinking who are the next game changers, difference makers, ceiling breakers, innovators, who are these boilermakers? Join me as we feature students, faculty, and alumni taking small steps toward their giant leaps and inspiring others to do the same. 

Karen Plaut: 

Purdue is an economic engine. It’s an economic engine for the state, and it has a local and a global impact. What we do impacts so many people, so many businesses. And I want people to understand we make an impact. We make an impact around the world. We make an impact in Indiana. We make an impact in every county in the state by some of our local efforts, too. 

Kate Young: 

In this episode of This is Purdue, we are talking to Karen Plaut, executive vice president for research at Purdue University. Karen oversees an expanding $600 million research enterprise, and is responsible for university-wide strategic initiatives, and bringing together researchers and resources to drive interdisciplinary discoveries that have both a local and a global impact. She became a boilermaker back in 2010 when she joined Purdue as the associate dean for research for the College of Agriculture, and later became the Glenn W. Sample Dean of the College of Agriculture. Before that, Karen’s background spans academia at other notable higher education institutions, space flight, animal sciences, and being a lead scientist for NASA’s International Space Station, biological research. 

And as a researcher at heart, we knew Karen would be the perfect guest for our research series. In this third episode of our 2024 research series, you’ll hear more about Karen’s leadership at Purdue as she continues to oversee research breakthroughs that truly make an impact on society. Okay, let’s get to it. Here’s my conversation with Karen. 

Karen, thank you so much for joining us on This is Purdue, our official university podcast. We’re excited to dig into all things Purdue research. It’s such a hot topic now and you’re the perfect person to guide us through that. So, today we’re in Purdue’s data science and artificial intelligence building, which ties into a lot of Purdue’s research initiatives, so we’ll get into that with you as well. But as the executive vice president for research at Purdue, you’re responsible for so many strategic initiatives, bringing together researchers, resources, and all of this impacts the whole world. So, to start off, share a little bit about your journey to Purdue. How did you come here and why Purdue? 

Karen Plaut: 

Sure. And thanks for having me on the podcast. I started my career actually on the East Coast. I did my BS at University of Vermont, my master’s at Penn State and my PhD at Cornell. I then went to the National Institutes of Health, the National Cancer Institute, and did a postdoc in mammary gland biology. It’s lactation biology. Then started a career at the University of Vermont in lactation biology. Was there for quite a number of years and did a sabbatical or took a leave and went to NASA, which we’ll talk about later. 

And then from there, I went to Michigan State as chair of their animal science department. I had been chair at the University of Vermont. And then I saw the ad for the position as associate dean for research at Purdue University for the College of Agriculture and said, “That seems like fun.” And so, went ahead and applied for that job and got it. And that started my career at Purdue in 2010. 

Kate Young: 

Amazing. Yeah. We do want to get into your background in animal science and the time that you spent at NASA. So, tell us a little bit more about that. 

Karen Plaut: 

Sure. So, my background is animal science. I’m a lactation biologist, so I work with mammals in general, many different kinds of mammals. Those are animals that make milk. And been doing it for quite a few years. And then at the University of Vermont as an assistant professor, actually a professor from Indiana University called me. And he was doing some work in space and needed a lactation biologist, so he asked me if I was interested. A few people had referred him to me and I said, “Sure, that sounds like fun.” And as a result of that, we started a research project where we sent rats to space and actually brought them back to earth. And we’re looking at how lactation changed. He had some other things he was looking at, but my group particularly looked at how milk production was changing in these animals as a result of going to space when they were pregnant. 

Kate Young: 

Wow, that is super interesting. What drew you back into higher ed and then specifically to come to Purdue? 

Karen Plaut: 

So, that was my experiment in NASA. I actually was with NASA two different times. So, that was as a researcher and that led me to my interest in it. So, I then had the opportunity to go to NASA as the lead scientist for the International Space Station for the biological research project. And there we actually were looking at all the habitats for space. And I worked with engineers and all different people. And there we had lots of different facilities, and we’re looking at how do we build them for the space station. And it was a complex project, because it’s both the life scientists and the engineers working together to design these habitats for space. 

So, I did that for a few years, but I really missed the academic environment and so I decided to come back to academia. And I did that. That’s when I came back to the University of Vermont as chair of their department, then to Michigan State and then to Purdue. That’s how I got back into academia. Really have enjoyed being in the research space. That’s sort of my love, also getting to work with undergraduates in undergraduate research and other projects like that. 

Kate Young: 

As I mentioned earlier, Karen held various roles within Purdue before becoming the executive vice president for research. I asked Karen what it was like to lead Purdue’s prestigious College of Agriculture, which is ranked number four in the country and number six in the world. 

Karen Plaut: 

It’s wonderful to be at a world-class institution with a world-class agricultural college. And it was a great opportunity to move some things forward. One of them is digital agriculture, which refers to the types of things happening in this building. So, we’re able to build a number of faculty in that area and really move that area forward. We were also lucky enough, both when I was associate dean of research and dean, to get the plant sciences Purdue moves under Mitch Daniels. We got two moves that really moved plant sciences forward, and that was lots and lots of fun. So, I had the opportunity to do both research as well as work with undergraduates, which I really enjoy. 

And then also, the College of Agriculture really plays an important role in the communities in Indiana. So, we have people in all 92 counties. So, I was able to work with people, and find out their needs at the local level and how we can help people at the local level, as well as global. We have a world food prize winner who also won the National Medal of Science. That’s Gebisa Ejeta. I’m able to work with people that are making a difference around the world and looking at how do we feed the world. How do we make a difference for the future? 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. We had two food science professors as part of our research series last year, who talked about how do we feed the world. The biggest problem that one could face is hunger. 

Karen Plaut: 

Absolutely. And hunger and food security affects every single person on the planet, so it’s one of the few areas where everybody is affected. 

Kate Young: 

So, in January of 2023, you transitioned into the Office of Research. How did serving as dean of the College of Agriculture help tee you up and prepare you to become the executive vice president of research? 

Karen Plaut: 

Well, and I think both jobs, dean and before that, the associate dean for research, both prepared me for the job I’m in today. The dean’s job, you get to see the big picture. You get to see what’s happening at the whole university. You get to work with your colleagues and really think about what does it mean at the university level, as well as for your college. As associate dean for research, you help move the research mission forward in the college. You’ve also worked with all the other associate deans, which have changed over time, but the basic functions haven’t. And it helps you understand what kind of tools do we need for research support for our faculty. How do we help our faculty move forward? 

So, you have these two that really help prepare me. As well as my time on NASA, because particularly when I worked with NASA, I worked with so many engineers, and so got a real chance to look at how those things work together. And then our plant sciences initiative, which was very interdisciplinary. So, got a chance to work with many different people in different departments and I think that prepared me well for my job now. 

Kate Young: 

As a lifelong researcher, Karen brings unique insights to leading research and creating an environment conducive to innovation. So, how is she fostering this environment in her role as EVP of research at Purdue? 

Karen Plaut: 

I think one of the important things is seeing the connections and seeing how you can build relationships between departments. It’s always surprising to me when I go places, how few of our scientists necessarily know somebody from a different discipline. So, one of the areas that we really help faculty is, how do you find collaborators that’ll make a difference for them? This week, I put some people with quantum, with some drug discovery, with some AI people. Building those relationships are what really make a difference. And it’s one of the things that’s really special at Purdue, that you can build those interdisciplinary relationships that really make our science excel and soar. 

Kate Young: 

Your background we’ve talked about a little bit. Animal sciences, space flight. You talked about NASA’s International Space Station, biological research. How did all of these incredible experiences influence your approach to your role now with Purdue? 

Karen Plaut: 

All of them add pieces to it. I think all of us know as you move from job to job, there’s pieces you learn in different settings that you can bring to your new job. That spirit of collaboration is something that’s happened through many of those jobs in different ways, and learning things like engineers do science a little bit different than life scientists. And so, I learned those types of things. Which groups really collaborate and like to work together? Where is the fundamental science advances? How can we move those forward? All those different jobs teach you many of those different types of things. 

Kate Young: 

Through all these experiences and working in research, you’ve probably had so many unique experiences. Do you have any particular stories or memories that really stand out to you with all of your research work? 

Karen Plaut: 

I actually have a lot of them. 

Kate Young: 

Share them all. We have all day. 

Karen Plaut: 

I thought one of the fun ones… So ,the projects we did at NASA, we actually worked down in Cape Canaveral when the animals come off the shuttle. First of all, seeing the shuttle land and knowing your animals are on that shuttle, and that you’re going to then work with them after they land, and working with different groups around that is really fun. But particularly, all of our animal work involved a lot of undergraduates. And bringing undergraduates out to Cape Canaveral, we had also the backup site, Edwards Air Force Base. So, I had a full team in California, full team in Florida, all of them working for the same goal and to figure out what difference did space make for these animals. And actually, the kind of findings we found from that are something that are unique and it’s a whole field that’s moved forward in circadian rhythms. 

And our NASA work contributed to our understanding of how that works in lactation, and with animals, and has implications for humans and other species. But I just remember the undergraduates, one of the rules, because we went various times, was you cannot have any exams on Monday morning if we’re going out. And of course, they all said no. And then we’re flying out Sunday and our plane broke. And what do you think happened? We finally made it out of California, but we went to Iowa or somewhere. That was the only place they could get… 

And the students tell me, “Well, we have an exam in the morning.” And I’m like, “Wait a minute, you weren’t supposed to come if you had an exam.” And we got it all worked out with their professors and things, but just that kind of interaction. And they were so enthusiastic about going, they weren’t going to tell me they had an exam. 

Kate Young: 

They were not going to miss that experience. 

Karen Plaut: 

Exactly. So, lots of fun things, and watching how those students have now grown, and that their careers are now accelerating is really fun to watch and see. 

Kate Young: 

Have you had students come back to you and say, “Hey, you made this huge impact on me?” 

Karen Plaut: 

Oh, yeah. Quite often. 

Kate Young: 

That’s so fun. 

Karen Plaut: 

To be honest, I don’t want to sound braggy. I don’t know if that’s a word. 

Kate Young: 

No. That has to be special for you. 

Karen Plaut: 

It’s really special when students come back and say, “Hey, you made a huge impact.” It made a big difference in my life. 

Kate Young: 

With your role as EBP of research at Purdue, what brings you fulfillment? What is maybe a special memory from your time leading research at Purdue right now? 

Karen Plaut: 

Seeing some of the big wins, seeing some of these teams that have incredible success. Some of the ones all the way back from the College of Agriculture in our digital forestry, which is part of plant science moves, they’ve had quite a number of large grants. And it’s great to see them win these large grants that allows us to move that whole field forward. It’s a fairly new field. And we’re pioneers, so that would be an example of it. Some of the stuff we’re doing in autonomous systems and watching that move forward has been really exciting. Shaoxing Mu who runs Icon had recently a story about combining not only the autonomous car, but ChatGPT together to help the car understand what you’re thinking. Those are so fun and so amazing that we can do those kind of things and move forward in that kind of direction. 

Kate Young: 

What is your vision for the future of Purdue research? What are some of those really big priority areas? 

Karen Plaut: 

One of them is increasing our large multidisciplinary grants, so continuing to move forward in some of those areas. And also, we don’t have what’s called like a U-arc, a university affiliated research center or federally funded research and development center. These are other ways to bring resources to Purdue, so looking at how we can leverage those opportunities and move those types of things forward. And then, obviously, making sure all of our areas have the chance to excel, and move forward, and taking advantage of new buildings like this, and what it can do for AI and various things. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. So, speaking of this and AI, we’ve heard a lot about AI as part of Purdue Computes. Tell us a little bit about the areas of AI that Purdue is really focused on. 

Karen Plaut: 

Yeah. So, our focus is really physical AI. And physical AI, let me break that down into a couple different categories. So, one of them is we make. So, this is about making things. And I think most people know our states of manufacturing, say, “How do we improve some of those processes using AI, including semiconductors that so many people hear about?” So that’s one of them. The next one would be we move, which is transportation. And when you think of transportation, you think about autonomous vehicles, it’s not just on the ground. It’s in the air and making things move forward. It’s robotics. We have a researcher working on… I think it’s so cool. Robots right now do really well on smooth surfaces, but they’re making a robot that has sort of sea legs, where it actually is sensing the ground so it can walk on a rocking ship and help the Navy, for example. So, all of those kind of things are part of we move. 

We grow, which is agriculture. I mentioned before the digital agriculture. Really looking how we can use AI and robotics to put the right nutrients in the right place at the right time. It saves money, it helps the environment, and it helps the farmer. So, looking at how we can increase productivity in those areas. And then the last area is we thrive, which is about healthcare, really, and what we can do. And we have some great researchers looking at AI assisted drug development and some of those kind of things to really help us move forward in healthcare. 

Kate Young: 

That’s incredible. And speaking of healthcare, another big initiative for Purdue is One Health. Why is Purdue poised and set up to lead in that specific area? 

Karen Plaut: 

One Health is a really exciting opportunity because it’s the intersection. It’s the intersection of humans, plants, animals, and environmental health. And we have expertise in all of those areas. Obviously, we have a veterinary school that really helps us move forward in terms of animals, as well as an animal science department. We have environmental programs. We have the Institute for Sustainable Future, which focuses on the environment. We have many aspects in health and human sciences and in Discovery Park District, that work on health and healthcare. And so, lots of opportunities with that. 

And then the plant sciences, we have all of those kind of things. And when you start putting these areas together and look at new initiatives, so one of the areas would be comparative genetics and genomics. Every animal has their own set of genes, but we have similarities that do similar functions. So, if you start looking at that across species, you can make some findings that we may have never seen before. So, really exciting things like that. And then you may have heard about our microbiome, which is the microbes that live… some in our gut, some on our hands, some are out there on the plants. 

And they all serve different purposes, but we can start using them to our advantage, either for the environment. We have good microbes that help the environment. We have good microbes in our stomach when things are going well. And looking at which ones really make a difference, how we can work together to figure out their function and figure out how do we maximize the system, the interconnected system, so that our animals benefit our plants, benefit our environment, and us as humans also benefit. 

Kate Young: 

We’ve had a few This is Purdue podcast episodes that have highlighted Purdue’s expansion into Indianapolis, which is one of Purdue President Mung Chiang’s strategic initiatives. I ask Karen what Purdue and Indianapolis means for Purdue research, and how students in Indianapolis will contribute to and benefit from this vision. 

Karen Plaut: 

Purdue in India is a really exciting opportunity for the future. We already have the start of some of those areas. Motorsports being one of them, certainly in engineering. That’s one. What they’re doing in autonomous systems is really exciting. We have a big center, DESI, down there, that’s doing some really cool things in that space. And then in healthcare, we already do work with IU Health and we work with IU School of Medicine, the VA Hospital, starting to look at what we can do in healthcare and in biomedical engineering, which is one of our strengths. Start putting that all together, and the opportunities are endless. 

Then I think I mentioned for my own research, the benefit of having those undergraduates. They contribute to these processes. It allows them to figure out where their careers are, and they also come into the lab often with no preconceived notion about what you’re doing. So, they ask really insightful questions. Really help you move forward and can help you discover whole new areas of research. And so, for those students, I think it’s going to be a game changer. And the fact that we’ll have those opportunities as we move forward will be really powerful. And they can work with Lilly. So they also get game changing research that’s changing human health and some things like that. So, really, I’m excited about the potential. 

Kate Young: 

From computer science and life sciences to artificial intelligence, to engineering and aviation, Purdue’s research areas are extensive. I ask Karen how she navigates the complexity of overseeing such diverse research areas. 

Karen Plaut: 

Great fun, but sometimes overwhelming. 

Kate Young: 

Sure. 

Karen Plaut: 

Because you go from learning about nuclear power, we have a digital nuclear reactor, the only one in the country, to learning about hypersonics, to thinking about audiology and hearing disease, to thinking about how you put fertilizer in a field, to all different things. So, it provides lots of opportunities and lots of opportunities to connect people. But some days, you’re running from one to the other and trying to keep up, “Okay, what’s this one about again? What’s this person doing?” It makes it really exciting. 

Kate Young: 

Yeah. You never have a boring day, I would imagine. 

Karen Plaut: 

That’s right. 

Kate Young: 

As a public institution, Purdue’s research significantly impacts everyone in Indiana, our economy. What are some of the key examples of this, and what do you wish more people and maybe lawmakers understood about Purdue research overall? 

Karen Plaut: 

Purdue is an economic engine. It’s an economic engine for the state, and it has a local and a global impact. What we do impacts so many people, so many businesses. And over the years, there’s so many different examples of where we made an impact. Hoover Dam, Meade is a Purdue grad. That’s just one example. The most current one is Pluvicto, which is the prostate cancer drug that is saving lives for many, many people that Phil Low invented. That’s incredible what he’s done. He’s saving lives across the country. Gebisa Ejeta work in Ethiopia and other developing countries, to develop a Striga-resistant sorghum and sorghum that can feed the world, that can help people that had no means to eat because Striga, which is a weed, was killing those things. And then what we do in national security, so opportunities to make sure that we have the deterrents we need. 

Everywhere you look, we’ve developed new popcorn varieties. Who knew that our apples, the most eaten apple in France was developed by Jules Janick at Purdue? Who would’ve known? You shouldn’t have asked me this question because I can’t stop, but the FDA was actually started by a person at Purdue. Harvey Wiley started the FDA. Before that, nothing you ate was regulated, and so lots of people were getting sick. And he started the Pure Foods Act, which started then the formation of the FDA and everything else. And that’s why we all have safe food. Who would’ve thought? 

Kate Young: 

I’m thinking of all these new podcast ideas. That’s incredible. 

Karen Plaut: 

I want people to understand we make an impact. We make an impact around the world. We make an impact in Indiana. We make an impact in every county in the state by some of our local efforts, too. I talked more about the global things people know about, but we also locally make an impact. And we’re an economic driver for workforce. The talent we develop here, it’s the talent that our Indiana businesses higher. It is fantastic to be training students in a way that they can go out and achieve their own dreams because we’ve created that opportunity here for them to do that. And I think when you look at talent development, when you look at economic development, there’s also new startups that all come from this innovation engine. And that’s really what we are. 

Kate Young: 

We’ve talked about your incredible career, NASA, other huge higher ed institutions. How does Purdue stand out to you when it comes to fostering innovation and research? 

Karen Plaut: 

It is the most collaborative place I’ve ever worked. In terms of working together, I always tell people, “Other places say they collaborate, but not the way Purdue does.” You can go to anybody in any discipline and say, “Oh, you should go meet so-and-so in this other discipline.” And they never say, “Oh, they do that. Don’t want to work.” They say, “Great. Oh, I can’t wait to meet them.” And so, you can put people together and make amazing connections that you can’t at other places. People just act like average people and like each other. And it’s not just true at Purdue, it’s actually the State of Indiana. Working across the state, we all work together. We believe in working together to make things happen. And that’s not true in many, many other states and other places that I’ve been. 

Kate Young: 

We’ve had other guests remark on that on the podcast as well. We touched on this a couple minutes ago, but how does this research at Purdue impact the world? What would happen if Purdue wasn’t doing all of this incredible research? 

Karen Plaut: 

People would actually starve. I hate to sound dramatic, but some of the inventions and the things we’ve done in local communities around the world have made it so people can have a proper life. We host the Mandela Washington Fellows every year, who are innovation fellows, who then go back to Africa and help develop the innovation ecosystem there. There are so many different types of things. We’ve had remarkable success in areas like Ai. We’ve had a couple Nobel Prize winners, which you know about. All of these inventions just make a difference. 

Now, having said that, there are obviously other universities doing lots of good things, too, so I don’t want to make it sound like it would be cataclysmic because that’s not true. But it would have a significant impact. I really do think it would have an impact on the world if we didn’t exist. It’s terrible we didn’t exist. 

Kate Young: 

I can’t think about that. What does it mean to you to be a boilermaker and support Purdue research? 

Karen Plaut: 

I’m proud of what we do. It’s really fun to do what we do, and that’s partly because of the people we work with. We work with people that care, that have a passion, and that makes it just really, really fun to support Purdue and be a boilermaker. 

Kate Young: 

Karen shares a few of her most memorable boilermaker experiences and gives some final advice to those interested in pursuing a career in research. 

Karen Plaut: 

I think anytime you go to a basketball game… I sound crazy. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Karen Plaut: 

But when you’re in the arena, and the noise and the pride is fantastic. My husband and I, we often support the international students who come. And so, we’ll bring them over to our house. And they are so proud to be at Purdue and makes you proud to be a boilermaker. And it’s really fun what we take for granted to see what it means to them. And one of them, this weekend, we met with them and we asked, “What did you find that was amazing at Purdue?” And one of the things they said, “Security.” And we’re like, “What does that mean? What are you talking…” “Secure to walk up the street. Secure to be at the university?” We don’t even think of some of these things. That’s for him, was the most amazing thing, was that you could go anywhere and do anything and it was safe. 

Kate Young: 

Anyone who’s interested in research, what advice would you give to them? 

Karen Plaut: 

Pursue your dreams. And I would say, don’t get stuck if you don’t like something. And this is even if you’re not interested in research. It’s any student. And I loved my graduate students too, so just to be clear. I happen to focus on undergrad. Pursue your dreams. Don’t let things get in your way. I’m a woman in a field that was very male oriented. 

Kate Young: 

Absolutely. 

Karen Plaut: 

If I let the fact that I was a woman or some of the things that were said to me along the way get in my way, I wouldn’t be where I am today. So, be resilient. Think about what you want. Try different things. You never know what’s interesting until you try it, and then just keep moving forward. When you find those things, say, “Okay, I want to do that.” If you had asked me as a student, would I be working for NASA, I would’ve have been… That wouldn’t happen. If you had asked me if I would’ve been the executive vice president for Purdue, I would’ve went, “Of course, not.” So, you never know what can happen in life. Just pursue those things that make you happy and you’ll be successful. 

Kate Young: 

I love that. That’s great advice. Well, Karen, is there anything I missed? Anything else you want to share with our listeners? 

Karen Plaut: 

I think we covered quite a bit of ground. I could talk for three hours if you wanted, but I don’t think that’s what we need to do. So thank you very much. 

Kate Young: 

Well, we appreciate it. 

Karen Plaut: 

I appreciate it. 

Kate Young: 

It was wonderful. Thank you. 

Karen Plaut: 

Thank you. 

Kate Young: 

We can’t thank Karen enough for joining us for our final research series episode of the year. She had such wonderful insights and advice. And her passion for research was so evident during our conversation. Now, Purdue University is an R1 research institution. And there are less than 150 universities in the entire country that classify as one. What exactly does this mean, though? You can watch Karen explain more about Purdue’s status as an R1 university on our This is Purdue YouTube page. YouTube.com/@thisispurdue. And you can also check out Karen’s full video interview in Purdue’s data science and AI building as well while you’re over there. Plus, be sure to follow This is Purdue on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, or wherever you get your podcasts, so you never miss an episode. 

This is Purdue is hosted and written by me, Kate Young. Our podcast videography for this episode was led by Ted Schellenberger in collaboration with Jon Garcia, Thad Boone and Zach Mogensen. Our social media marketing is led by Maria Welch. Our podcast distribution strategy is led by Teresa Walker and Carly Eastman. Our podcast design is led by Caitlin Freeville. Our podcast photography is led by John Underwood. Our podcast team project manager is Rain Gu. Our podcast YouTube promotions is managed by Kirsten Bauman. Additional writing and research assistance is led by Sophie Ritz. And our This is Purdue intern is Caroline Keim. 

Thanks for listening to This is Purdue. For more information on this episode, visit our website at purdue.edu/podcasts. There you can head over to your favorite podcast app to subscribe and leave us a review. And as always, boiler up.